ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Trials
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2012, 03:51 AM   #16
motu
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,444
Yes,the TLR200 wasn't considered a real trials bike at the time, but when we were getting good numbers at our twinshock trials 3 or 4 might turn up. The TLR250 is more of a trials bike - that extra 50cc and the better ratio 5 speed box allow it to be ridden in 2nd gear, and to loft the front at will like a 2 stroke.

I came back to trials in 2000 with a KT250, but it was a wayward beast and then changed to the TLR200. Suspension and handling are better than most twinshocks, so am reluctant to move to a so called better twinshock and lose that. Handling or engine? After having the Honda for 10 years, looks like I prefer the handling. At first I thought the pegs were too high, they feel higher than the CG....but now I'm used to it I see no reason to change.

My only complaints are the engine, even if modified it's gutless, and you don't have the 2 stroke advantage of using the flywheels with no engine braking. The TLR has to be ridden aggressively, with the throttle more on than off - fun in a rocky stream bed where to throttle off could mean a stall, so lots of throttle action like a modern rather than the slower methodical course of a heavy flywheel 2 stroke.

To gear the TLR200 down enough to use 2nd gear in sections, it's still too high. When I questioned other TLR riders,and even TLR250 riders about the gearing they just shrugged and said they use 1st for everything...so do I now. It means you can't loft the front wheel easily over obstacles, but the aggressive nail it and go method seems to work well. I'll use 2nd on a long climb with an easy exit, but if they put some trickery at the top I just MX it all the way up.

I stripped and rebuilt my TLR200 using very few parts in a few days - and in 10 years I've only had to replace a few broken parts, changed the oil a couple of times, and have never even looked at the air filter or spark plug. Sure I'd love a Fantic, but the Honda is just stupidly dumb reliable. Wash, remove wheels and clean brakes, remove and soak chain....put it away and pull it out any time and use it.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 05:23 AM   #17
Twin-shocker
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Oddometer: 1,673
A slightly modified TLR200 that was ridden to 3rd place in the UK twin-shock championship a couple of years back, was able to use 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears in the sections no problem at all. A properly done 200 works far better than a 250, which doesnt have enough flywheel weight, and a front end which is much too light unless the pegs are moved forward.
Twin-shocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 06:45 AM   #18
lineaway
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: nm
Oddometer: 2,455
We would never see 3rd gear unless going down hill. Second only on a straight easy approach. But to be fair in the UK you are probably running with 30% more power than us do to the elevation. Sure is a sweet little motor. Now that I have it running it has been first kick every time. I`ll try to fit some pegs today as I`ll be headed to our event tommorow. Not enough time to do any real mods. I actually have it for sale, really wanting a Fantic.
lineaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 07:39 AM   #19
lamotovita
Ageing Adventurer
 
lamotovita's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: WA/AZ, USA
Oddometer: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
and in 10 years I've never even looked at the air filter
I've never been to NZ, is there no dust there? Or do you only ride it indoors?
__________________
Beaten paths are for beaten men.
lamotovita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 07:56 AM   #20
brewtus
Buffoonery, Inc.
 
brewtus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Albuquerque, not New, not Mexico.......
Oddometer: 2,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMTrailboss View Post
I assume it's running OK now? Not looking like a runaway 1st place in Twin Shock A for brewtus this week!

Bobby could be riding a 1975 GL1000 Goldwing in Twinshock "A" this weekend and beat me. A "runaway 1st place" isn't in the cards for me against Lineaway!!


Not that I'm just going to lie down and give him a win though.....
__________________
Work hard. Play hard.
Team Dead End. The drinking team with a Trials problem.
2-Time winner of the coveted "Best Shenanigans" award at Capt. Rick's annual BBQ.
brewtus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:34 AM   #21
Sting32 OP
Trials Evangelist
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis, Ks
Oddometer: 1,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSchrauber View Post
The Honda Reflex is a nice bike, it's a four stroke but I don't see any advantage between a Reflex to any Spanish brand t(SNIP)
Maybe therefore there still so many of them in a good shape around.

How would you otherwise explain the absence of these Honda's in trials section when they where brand new?
You are so right about this, IMHO.

One thing though, the factory riders, and I am all about the 70's... The better riders (recall the name Bob Nicholson?) They modified these fking honda bikes, as they unpacked them out of the crate, to even get them close to competitive... cutting frames to modifying the steering rake. Stuff nobody else knew.

The biggest disadvantage has always been, the honda engine was a turd... It weighed in a no less than 1/3rd more than the 2 stroke "cc equivalent" yet in those days, a 250, was about equal to riding at 2 stroke 125/175. You freaking all know that is right, that is the basis of why the 125 class of yore (or the past), is 250cc now. and the 250 was almost 500 cc for the 4 strokes, just to give them equal footing at the beginning... after years of developement the HP is closer than it ever has been, but still they know the rules should be 350cc fourstroke = 250 to stroke equality, but that was like closing the barn door after the pigs got out.

Plus thanks to Evinrude, they proved that 2 strokes are no more poluting than 4 strokes, based on what EPA was claming/falsifying in their tests... especially when you considered the "work" done by 2 strokes, with half the displacement requred of a 4 stroke, to accomplish even remotely close to same results in performance. all that, let alone the huge weight disparity, which is even more influential in a boat's motor requirements and how the boat/watercraft runs with the extra weight... This was easily translated and felt in trials bikes, and garden equipment as well!

Freaking UnObtanium valves, rods, cranks, and all kinds of Formula 1 motor parts engineered & developed Just for the Factory riders, to make the 4rt "factory rider only model" that has reasonable estimated values of over $100,000 in the engine alone... that isnt a bike you and I can buy, for the 8-9 thousand dollars to ride in our clubs... Well, unless the US government will back montessa like theydo Chevy's Volt, which costs the taxpayer roughly $200,000 per car sold in america... But I digress...

I still think the stupidest crap is that everyone recall's how nice the old honda's are, yet nobody won "ANYTHING" on them. And by god, I mean that in the most serious, not "pickin on honda or even 4stroke" terms...

Those bikes, like newer "older ones" like 80's versions that Legune rode, they were special one off bikes, "factory" rides that NOBODY could own, they crushed them bikes back in the day, when the rider was done with them. That is why they dont exist, anything that is left is a "replica" or a fasade, like old pioneer town buildings on a hollywood set. they have the paint, decals, but nothing else. Originals destroyed, probably to not reveal how much dare I say it, "cheating" they were doing at the time...

Well, thankfully IMHO. At least this kept one or 2 person's in the rest of the "amature" ranks (anyone not being paid to ride & train, like us) from getting that special bike, ruining competition for the rest of us, who had to buy what was available from dealers and such.

oh well, Just another rant.

Sting32 screwed with this post 03-02-2012 at 10:08 AM
Sting32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:52 AM   #22
lineaway
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: nm
Oddometer: 2,455
My first `Trials School` was from Bob N. and Wiltz Wagner when they came down from colorado. Seems like 1973, pictures were in Shipman`s book Observed Trials just for fun.
Wow Sting when you edit you edit!
Now you are talking Bob`s Team Honda USA. Whaley, Eggar,Griffiths and was it Belair also. Back then I want to say the team bikes were like 18k each. Maybe just a little modified. Wish I could find my pictures.

lineaway screwed with this post 03-02-2012 at 10:25 AM
lineaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 03:12 PM   #23
motu
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
I've never been to NZ, is there no dust there? Or do you only ride it indoors?
Trials is a winter sport here, we have a couple of trials in summer, but autumn, winter and spring is when we ride. We have a weather bomb hitting the North Island today - trees down, roofs off, roads blocked. It's blowing a gale and raining here, there is an Aircooled Trial on today - and it won't be cancelled. I'm not going, my granddaughter is here for the weekend. Rocky streams and in trees is where we ride, not much dust.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:22 PM   #24
Bendejo
Movin' on up
 
Bendejo's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Far East Colfax
Oddometer: 4,495
Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
Trials is a winter sport here, we have a couple of trials in summer, but autumn, winter and spring is when we ride. We have a weather bomb hitting the North Island today - trees down, roofs off, roads blocked. It's blowing a gale and raining here, there is an Aircooled Trial on today - and it won't be cancelled. I'm not going, my granddaughter is here for the weekend. Rocky streams and in trees is where we ride, not much dust.
I'd love to see some photos of the terrain where you ride.
Bendejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 11:15 PM   #25
motu
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,444
Rocky streams with muddy banks are popular.



One of my daughters at another rocky stream.....sections are usually spread out along the stream, drop in, ride along and then climb out.



In trees.



Mud is always a favourite, there were 3 sections in the trees in the background too.

motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 09:51 AM   #26
JeffS77
cheap bastard
 
JeffS77's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Riverside , CA
Oddometer: 3,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
Rocky streams with muddy banks are popular.

looks a lot diffearent then what the ride here in southern california.....but very beautiful country you got there...i wish we had more green.

(photos from Plonkers facebook page)





JeffS77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 12:38 PM   #27
motojunky
Professional Idiot
 
motojunky's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: North East, MD
Oddometer: 1,075
Twin shock

I'm reading this and interpreting that the Fantic seems to be the cream of the crop for twin shock bikes. Is that one man's opinion or a generally accepted truth?

I think at some point I'd like to try a vintage bike (air cooled, twin shock, drum brakes by my club's rules) and have been casually thinking about what bike it might be. My wife likes Montesas, so of course an opportunity to "kill two birds with one stone" would carry a lot of weight.

If you were looking for a twin shock bike to fool around and compete on (for fun, not seriously), what would you choose? Why?
motojunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #28
brewtus
Buffoonery, Inc.
 
brewtus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Albuquerque, not New, not Mexico.......
Oddometer: 2,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by motojunky View Post
If you were looking for a twin shock bike to fool around and compete on (for fun, not seriously), what would you choose? Why?

One of the factory Honda RTL's that Sting was kvetching about.
__________________
Work hard. Play hard.
Team Dead End. The drinking team with a Trials problem.
2-Time winner of the coveted "Best Shenanigans" award at Capt. Rick's annual BBQ.
brewtus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 01:00 PM   #29
LowPSI
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: California
Oddometer: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motojunky View Post
I'm reading this and interpreting that the Fantic seems to be the cream of the crop for twin shock bikes. Is that one man's opinion or a generally accepted truth?

I think at some point I'd like to try a vintage bike (air cooled, twin shock, drum brakes by my club's rules) and have been casually thinking about what bike it might be. My wife likes Montesas, so of course an opportunity to "kill two birds with one stone" would carry a lot of weight.

If you were looking for a twin shock bike to fool around and compete on (for fun, not seriously), what would you choose? Why?
Motojunky, if your wife likes Montesas then the Cota 200 would be a good choice. It's easy to ride, light for the era and very competitive. Larry Holbert won the NATC Twin Shock Nationals on a Cota 200. In fact he beat a total of 75 Clubmen on modern bikes and was low score for the combined TS/CM classes at 4 of 5 US nationals. He was only beat once by a modern bike.

LowPSI screwed with this post 03-06-2012 at 01:15 PM
LowPSI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 01:21 PM   #30
PSchrauber
Studly Adventurer
 
PSchrauber's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: Kemiö, Finland; Winter: North Germany
Oddometer: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by motojunky View Post
I'm reading this and interpreting that the Fantic seems to be the cream of the crop for twin shock bikes. Is that one man's opinion or a generally accepted truth?

I think at some point I'd like to try a vintage bike (air cooled, twin shock, drum brakes by my club's rules) and have been casually thinking about what bike it might be. My wife likes Montesas, so of course an opportunity to "kill two birds with one stone" would carry a lot of weight.

If you were looking for a twin shock bike to fool around and compete on (for fun, not seriously), what would you choose? Why?
Very truth!

#1:
The Fantic 200, 240 and 300 are the best twin shockers you can get.

#2:
Next in my view is the Montesa Cota 242!

#3:
Then it's difficult to say, from the older ones the SWM TL.NW with fork clamps from the Marzocchi but Betor forks, will turn much better and the bike is around 5 - 10 kg lighter then the other ones but shares the calm acceleration too.

#4:
Now comes the rest in my personal view, some likes Cota's more then Bultacos, there where some twinshock Betas already in the beginning 80's on the market but they worked not so good, ... not to forget the yellow Ossa's, Majesty TY, ... Oh yes Honda TLR not to forget

When it comes too the - factor for me the Sherpa 199b is unbeatable in design and appearence.

(With some contemporary modifications you can lift nearly any brand/model to/near the top)

I have a made my decision already with a Bultaco 199b, (modified), a SWM TL 320 and a Yamaha TY.
PSchrauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014