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Old 03-04-2012, 09:22 PM   #1
Prmurat OP
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Newbie question

I have only 800kms on my Gear Up and having spend today in some twisties with my wife and 2 beagles in the car, I just had to take some muscle relaxants as my left arm is so sore... Ok my right arm is half invalid but left turns are so tough... So, surely not an Ural, have any sidecar ever been equipped with a kind of power steering? My Spyder has one and it is welcomed!
Please, if you have no answers to a genuine question just do not respond!
Thanks
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:04 PM   #2
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prmurat View Post
I have only 800kms on my Gear Up and having spend today in some twisties with my wife and 2 beagles in the car, I just had to take some muscle relaxants as my left arm is so sore... Ok my right arm is half invalid but left turns are so tough... So, surely not an Ural, have any sidecar ever been equipped with a kind of power steering? My Spyder has one and it is welcomed!
Please, if you have no answers to a genuine question just do not respond!
Thanks
I don't know anything about power steering for sidecars, but you will find in time as you get more comfortable with the dynamics the problem will for the most part solve itself.

The first thing is to relax and not fight it, your muscle memory will soon automatically compensate for the yaw caused by throttle and braking input. Also you will learn to use those traits to help in turns.

Don't worry, it gets better with time.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:41 AM   #3
jaydmc
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Ural's come with a lot of trail on the front end so that they can still be riden with out the sidecar, You can reduce trail further if you want which will make for lighter steering. To reduce trail the front wheel must be moved forward a bit, This is not all that hard to do if you have the link type front end.
All of the power steering units I know of will not work on handle bar set ups, we are installing one at this time off of a Can Am quad onto a sidecar we are building that will be driven with a steering wheel by the passenger who will remain in his wheel chair.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:14 AM   #4
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I 2nd what windmill said,You will get use to it and have the shoulders you always wanted!!.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:16 AM   #5
val. h.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prmurat View Post
I have only 800kms on my Gear Up and having spend today in some twisties with my wife and 2 beagles in the car, I just had to take some muscle relaxants as my left arm is so sore... Ok my right arm is half invalid but left turns are so tough... So, surely not an Ural, have any sidecar ever been equipped with a kind of power steering? My Spyder has one and it is welcomed!
Please, if you have no answers to a genuine question just do not respond!
Thanks
I find similarly that the steering can be very heavy. I have yet to build my LLs, though having done quite a bit of reading on the matter it does appeare that you might be best off trying to find a way of moving your front axel forward 'as Jay sais above'. You'll need to do a bit of cutting and wellding, but because you already have LLs it shouldn't be too big a job.

However before getting the saw out do some measurements to work out how much trail the forks currently have. The less trail the lighter the steering. But be careful. Too little trail will cause the steering to be so light that the rig becomes dangerous. From what I understand moving the axel forward 30-40 mm from a solo bikes standard trail is about right. I imagine that the Ural is already somewhere close to that, but if what Jay sais is right, then you should be able to move the axel forward 10-20mm, which should make a significant difference. Doing this might be as simple as drilling a new pivot hole 10-20mm behind the original one.

I have also just about covered 800 miles on my outfit, (776 to be precice) I understand just what you mean about getting really stiff while riding. After a gentle bimble out last weekend I could barely get off the bike I was so stiff. I understand too what Windmill sais, 'and I'm sure you do too' that the rider should be relaxed on the bars when riding. This is all very well, but it's so easy to find myself really holding the bars ridgidley to deal with road camber and having to tell myself to relax. Even so you do find that going round some of the tighter/faster bends can require a lot of input from the rider.


HTH Val.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NortwestRider View Post
I 2nd what windmill said,You will get use to it and have the shoulders you always wanted!!.
+2- I've been on the road since September and it was a lot of work at first- sore wrists, shoulders, and lats. Now I don't notice it at all, but I did notice my suit jacket was stretched tight across my shoulders when I had to dig it out for a function the other day!

One simple thing to try is tire pressure- the rig will steer easier the higher the presssure.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #7
Thermos
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Use the knee pads!!

Use the knee pads on the sides of the tank!. When you go left, push into the tank with the left knee and then the opposite for right hand turns, with the proper monkey butt shifting for fast right hand turns.

-T
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #8
Zippydapanhead
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If you are new to hacks...

Hang in there. You may be running hard on the steering tensioner now and find you will turn it down after more bar time... and I see a lot of discussion on ADVRider about putting Kawasaki KLR bars on it for more leverage. Since your brain may be wired to countersteer if you have been non-hacking or bicycling... the switch to ATV, three-wheeler type steering will have you in knots for awhile.

Good decision on the rig!
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:16 PM   #9
Prmurat OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by val. h. View Post
I find similarly that the steering can be very heavy. I have yet to build my LLs, though having done quite a bit of reading on the matter it does appeare that you might be best off trying to find a way of moving your front axel forward 'as Jay sais above'. You'll need to do a bit of cutting and wellding, but because you already have LLs it shouldn't be too big a job.

However before getting the saw out do some measurements to work out how much trail the forks currently have. The less trail the lighter the steering. But be careful. Too little trail will cause the steering to be so light that the rig becomes dangerous. From what I understand moving the axel forward 30-40 mm from a solo bikes standard trail is about right. I imagine that the Ural is already somewhere close to that, but if what Jay sais is right, then you should be able to move the axel forward 10-20mm, which should make a significant difference. Doing this might be as simple as drilling a new pivot hole 10-20mm behind the original one.

I have also just about covered 800 miles on my outfit, (776 to be precice) I understand just what you mean about getting really stiff while riding. After a gentle bimble out last weekend I could barely get off the bike I was so stiff. I understand too what Windmill sais, 'and I'm sure you do too' that the rider should be relaxed on the bars when riding. This is all very well, but it's so easy to find myself really holding the bars ridgidley to deal with road camber and having to tell myself to relax. Even so you do find that going round some of the tighter/faster bends can require a lot of input from the rider.


HTH Val.
I am trying to not have the "death grip" but gosh... road camber is really killing me... I guess having power in only one arm does not help either.. I am starting to look like these crabs: big left arm and rickety right one... Now big shoulders??? Great with my already big butcher like neck (40 years of riding does that to you...) finding the right side shirt is gone be fun!!!
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:01 AM   #10
val. h.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prmurat View Post
I am trying to not have the "death grip" but gosh... road camber is really killing me... I guess having power in only one arm does not help either.. I am starting to look like these crabs: big left arm and rickety right one... Now big shoulders??? Great with my already big butcher like neck (40 years of riding does that to you...) finding the right side shirt is gone be fun!!!

HaHa! never thought of the crap connection before. You could claim it's Barmans arm.

Something I've noticed when I find myself struggling with the camber and really pulling hard on the bars to keep my line, is that I can actully loosen my grip quite a bit and just rest my parms against the bars and that I'm doing all this pulling for nothing. It appears that I'm actually holding on too tight, just because it felt like I should be, then I discover I don't need to hold so tight.

Another thing with camber is to try to get the rig in a position that it's either straddeling the hump of the road (if the road is empty I'll ride straighit down the centre sometines) or get the hack or tug tyres in the bottom of one of the lorry tyre groves. It helps to level things out and makes for an easier ride.


Val.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:35 AM   #11
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A listening Nubie

Been following these threads for several years. I have now collected the pieces and parts. The trusty K-75 will be wearing a velorex soon. The question of arm strength has crossed my mind, due to loss of some left wrist bones. So
Prmurat's question goes X2. Everyones replies have givin me some insight on the subject, Thanks all.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:38 AM   #12
BlairBear
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Me To!

I'm new to a Hack also. I thought I was having a heart attack the other day, my chest was hurting. One thing I found that help me on my rig (2011 Patrol), I took some tape and marked the handlebars to clamps. Then loosened the clamps and moved them up 1/8" at the clamp mark. It seemed to make around 3' at the grips. That made a huge difference to me. I did have to re-index the throttle housing and the levers. Besides that, I'm still trying to get use to it!
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:05 PM   #13
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If the sidecar isn't set up correctly, considering the load & camber, then no amount of muscle building is going to help. Was it set up before you took possession? By whom? For whom?

Without drilling, cutting, adding parts etc, you need to establish some basic dimensions. Loaded and unloaded. Don't forget, you need to have your weight on the seat as well. Placement of a load on the bike &/or in the sidecar may also effect the measurements.

Sidecars will forever be a compromise. The objective is to come up with the best compromise for your particular situation. You may end up with a number of settings for different riding situations.

Just throwing parts at it may never turn it into a silk purse.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:26 AM   #14
alzyck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripodtiger View Post
If the sidecar isn't set up correctly, considering the load & camber, then no amount of muscle building is going to help. Was it set up before you took possession? By whom? For whom?

....
That's what I found with my Gear Up. When I first took delivery, it was hard work to keep it going straight down the road. People told me I just needed more experience to get used to riding a hack. It just didn't feel right. I finally took it back to the dealer. The toe-in on the sidecar was way off. We reset the toe-in and bike camber to the Ural recommendations. After that, it rode like a whole different bike. It's more work to drive than a normal bike, but nothing like it was.

It does take a while to get used to driving a sidecar rig (I'm still working on it), just make sure you're not battling an incorrectly set up unit.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:16 AM   #15
jeffygs
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new to sidecar

After purchasing my rig (GL1100/EML) I thought I would not be able to ride it long distance, the first day after purchase on the commute home after 360 miles I thought my arms were going to fall off. I finally made it home after suffering for 5 days and 2000 miles. I spent hours checking my rigging (it was way off) and bought Steerite triple trees to reduce trail. Now I couldn't be happier, Now my GS sits in the garage.
Im sure your Ural trail is correct with the LL but the toe in, lean out/ in I suspect are out of wack, just because you bought it new does not mean it was set up properly or at all. My opinion (might be wrong) is to set it up as your going to ride it. sitting on bike, type of roads and camber of the roads, person or weight in sidecar(if your always taking someone). lots of help here, these guys are brilliant and even on youtube. my .02
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