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Old 03-24-2012, 06:57 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm View Post
Given almost 200 postings and 12,000 viewings, this topic seems to have strong interest.

As a previous inmate mentioned, the Europeans may have dropped the marketing ball here in the US.

I'd offer that the Japanese may also be overlooking a market that could be addressed with relatively modest improvements to existing lines.

Seems like this 450 market has potential given the racing world's focus on this size, as first mentioned by the OP.

Regardless, this segment seems to have a greater potential than that targeted by the Rune and others....

NFE

Folks like me, trying to figure out what a D/S has in common with a adv bike. So far nobody has answered it. Maybe some folks adventure closer to home, but for me I got to ride 500 miles just to get to the start of the adventure part.
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Old 03-25-2012, 01:53 AM   #287
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An adventure bike is a dual sport bike...it's all just a name/term.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:15 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by bobnoxious67 View Post
An adventure bike is a dual sport bike...it's all just a name/term.

I always thought of a dual sport as a dirt bike that is highway capable, I always thought of an adventure bike as big fuel tanked semi beastie capable of droning out a 500 miles of interstate and finishing with 100 miles of gravel and dirt roads and do it all on 2 tanks of fuel.

I guess if your going to trailer from Kansas City to Moab you could just take a any little D/S, but if your riding, that same light weight that makes it a dream off road makes 1000 miles of interstate a grueling slog.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:46 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by perterra View Post
I always thought of a dual sport as a dirt bike that is highway capable, I always thought of an adventure bike as big fuel tanked semi beastie capable of droning out a 500 miles of interstate and finishing with 100 miles of gravel and dirt roads and do it all on 2 tanks of fuel.

I guess if your going to trailer from Kansas City to Moab you could just take a any little D/S, but if your riding, that same light weight that makes it a dream off road makes 1000 miles of interstate a grueling slog.
My point is that if it's designed to travel on the dirt and gravel...it's a dual sport.

ADV bikes are dual sports with specialized features that make them happier at "droning out 500 miles of interstate".
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:59 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by bobnoxious67 View Post
My point is that if it's designed to travel on the dirt and gravel...it's a dual sport.

ADV bikes are dual sports with specialized features that make them happier at "droning out 500 miles of interstate".

I agree completely, not sure what some others are talking about though.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:50 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by perterra View Post
I agree completely, not sure what some others are talking about though.
Interstate sucks, take the back two-lanes and all the dirt you can get. An enduro/dual-sport/light-adventure will all be awesome and do well in that terrain.

Lucky I live in the west, I get all the way to South America without having to droll across the planes states on the interstate.

To me an adventure bike is any well performing off road machine with a big gas tank, 5+ gallons, excellent suspension, a good transmission, and a strong motor. I don't mind taking care of it along the way as long as it keeps milling.

Anything more street oriented than a KTM640E doesn't interest me, though I loved my 640A.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:02 AM   #292
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Interstate sucks, take the back two-lanes and all the dirt you can get. An enduro/dual-sport/light-adventure will all be awesome and do well in that terrain.

Lucky I live in the west, I get all the way to South America without having to droll across the planes states on the interstate.

To me an adventure bike is any well performing off road machine with a big gas tank, 5+ gallons, excellent suspension, a good transmission, and a strong motor. I don't mind taking care of it along the way as long as it keeps milling.

Anything more street oriented than a KTM640E doesn't interest me, though I loved my 640A.

You are lucky, it's 1040 miles from my front door to Moab. If I took back roads I would never get there and back with any time spent there in the 10 days I can squeak in a year.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:04 AM   #293
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A lot depends on your perception of what is required for riding long highway miles. Due to my age a 250 seems mid size and 500+ seems big to me. A big street bike used to be a 750. So, to me at least, these 800 to 1200 cc adventure bikes seem more like the universal street bikes I grew up with than any kind of real dual sport.

The reason why I say that is in my youth a dual sport was simply a small to mid sized street bike with the turn signals removed and trials tires while a dirt bike was a street bike with all the lights removed and knobbies. So the current crop of giant adventure bikes just seem like getting back to those days of do it all motorcycles.

The real revolution, in my mind at least, is the current crop of very fast, very capable and very reliable plated race bikes and the return of street bikes that aren't afraid to get dirty. Until recently dual sports had not really changed since I was a teenager. But both street and dirt bikes had become so specialized so there was little crossover.

But in the last years we are seeing street bikes that are happy with knobs levered on and dirt bikes that can be ridden on the street plus some that blur those lines. To me we are in a second golden age of dual sports right now. If you can't find something to fit your riding style these days you just aren't looking hard enough.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:13 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
A lot depends on your perception of what is required for riding long highway miles. Due to my age a 250 seems mid size and 500+ seems big to me. A big street bike used to be a 750. So, to me at least, these 800 to 1200 cc adventure bikes seem more like the universal street bikes I grew up with than any kind of real dual sport.

The reason why I say that is in my youth a dual sport was simply a small to mid sized street bike with the turn signals removed and trials tires while a dirt bike was a street bike with all the lights removed and knobbies. So the current crop of giant adventure bikes just seem like getting back to those days of do it all motorcycles.

The real revolution, in my mind at least, is the current crop of very fast, very capable and very reliable plated race bikes and the return of street bikes that aren't afraid to get dirty. Until recently dual sports had not really changed since I was a teenager. But both street and dirt bikes had become so specialized so there was little crossover.

But in the last years we are seeing street bikes that are happy with knobs levered on and dirt bikes that can be ridden on the street plus some that blur those lines. To me we are in a second golden age of dual sports right now. If you can't find something to fit your riding style these days you just aren't looking hard enough.
+1...Well said Grreatdog.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:37 AM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
A lot depends on your perception of what is required for riding long highway miles. Due to my age a 250 seems mid size and 500+ seems big to me. A big street bike used to be a 750. So, to me at least, these 800 to 1200 cc adventure bikes seem more like the universal street bikes I grew up with than any kind of real dual sport.

The reason why I say that is in my youth a dual sport was simply a small to mid sized street bike with the turn signals removed and trials tires while a dirt bike was a street bike with all the lights removed and knobbies. So the current crop of giant adventure bikes just seem like getting back to those days of do it all motorcycles.

The real revolution, in my mind at least, is the current crop of very fast, very capable and very reliable plated race bikes and the return of street bikes that aren't afraid to get dirty. Until recently dual sports had not really changed since I was a teenager. But both street and dirt bikes had become so specialized so there was little crossover.

But in the last years we are seeing street bikes that are happy with knobs levered on and dirt bikes that can be ridden on the street plus some that blur those lines. To me we are in a second golden age of dual sports right now. If you can't find something to fit your riding style these days you just aren't looking hard enough.
Well said. When I grew up, what is known now as a dual sport was called an enduro...oh yeah, and I had to walk a mile to school in the snow and rain!
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:12 PM   #296
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I need to look at some of the newer breed of "enduro" bikes. I never enjoyed race bikes because when I was riding for 9 hours in a day staying on the pipe was a real pain in the ass. Power delivery was all or nothing, hit a blind hill you had better be wound up tight and in the power band or the thing was going to stall half way up and dump you and your camping gear all the way back down the hill. I came to appreciate low gears and big flywheels.

Now, I dont care to work that hard. My goal is to get somewhere nobody else is, stick up my tent and watch the stars with a Markers Mark and water in my hand. Fuck riding at 9/10 all day long. Thats for play racers, not my idea of enjoyment. Though others may dig it and thats cool, but it aint for me.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:32 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by perterra View Post
I need to look at some of the newer breed of "enduro" bikes. I never enjoyed race bikes because when I was riding for 9 hours in a day staying on the pipe was a real pain in the ass. Power delivery was all or nothing, hit a blind hill you had better be wound up tight and in the power band or the thing was going to stall half way up and dump you and your camping gear all the way back down the hill. I came to appreciate low gears and big flywheels.

Now, I dont care to work that hard. My goal is to get somewhere nobody else is, stick up my tent and watch the stars with a Markers Mark and water in my hand. Fuck riding at 9/10 all day long. Thats for play racers, not my idea of enjoyment. Though others may dig it and thats cool, but it aint for me.
I can understand that, a modern four stroke "enduro" is a lot easier to ride than what you described, which sounds exactly like my two stroke mx bike with woods mods.

To me the idea of a bike that bottoms out and handles erratically on anything approaching an interesting speed over rough terrain or feels heavy underway sounds awful. Basically anything more "old skool" than an XR650R. I also am too OCD to just trust a bike to keep running without knowing what the guts look like and how they are changing over time.

So whether I'm on a DR650, DRZ, XRL, or the eurotrash it is getting a clean airfilter every two rides, new oil every 500miles, and the valves looked at once a month whether it needs it or not so I might as well enjoy the performance. I can be uncomfortable on the road, but i refuse to be uncomfortable in the dirt because of an ill suited or outdated bike.

Oh, and it is nice being a 2.5 hour ride to moab
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #298
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Oh, and it is nice being a 2.5 hour ride to moab

Ass hole. Sorry, the envy bubbled up.

I'm a trail rider, given the opportunity to ride over a rise or jump it, I'll ride. I'm the same way on the highway these days.
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:57 PM   #299
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I am with VxZ. One of the main things that got me off Japanese and onto orange dual sport bikes is that my body is absolutely beat to hell. I was OK with pounding myself to mush on crap suspension up until I hit 50 and passed my third surgery. Then I rode a friends SXC625 and discovered you really don't have to put up with that.

Having real competition class suspension under your ass just works better whether you are riding at 5/10's or 10/10's. I can now sit through stuff that I used to have to stand through. And the more time I spend off my ankles and knees the happier I am. The fact that Euro dual sport bikes are generally more powerful is just a bonus.

My first few 300 mile dual sport events on Yamahas and Hondas left me sore and limping for days. The last three I rode on my LC4E and I felt great afterwards. The difference for me is so dramatic that I went out and bought the MXC because I rediscovered riding hard on technical trails and not getting punished for it.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:01 PM   #300
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I am with VxZ. One of the main things that got me off Japanese and onto orange dual sport bikes is that my body is absolutely beat to hell. I was OK with pounding myself to mush on crap suspension up until I hit 50 and passed my third surgery. Then I rode a friends SXC625 and discovered you really don't have to put up with that.

Having real competition class suspension under your ass just works better whether you are riding at 5/10's or 10/10's. I can now sit through stuff that I used to have to stand through. And the more time I spend off my ankles and knees the happier I am. The fact that Euro dual sport bikes are more powerful is just bonus.

My first few 300 mile dual sport events on Yamahas and Hondas left me sore and limping for days. The last three I rode on my LC4E and I felt great afterwards. The difference is dramatic.

So how easy is it to adjust the suspension for your gear load. Say you add 50lbs of gear and fuel behind the shock, how easy to adjust once you unload?
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