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Old 03-29-2012, 11:20 PM   #151
TerraRoot
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doh, forgot you have longer suspension, how much extra do you have btw?
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:20 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by TerraRoot View Post
doh, forgot you have longer suspension, how much extra do you have btw?
I don't know what the cbr had but the ktm in dirt gear is full 300mm
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:50 PM   #153
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Got the pegs done and mocked up the levers with the studded rod ends.



Made the actuator



Decided to weld the bracket out of steel



Flipped my mock up lever around for the shifter and welded a tang. *Shortened up the connector to the stock honda shift arm and tapped the rod end for the m6 thread



Now that I have the mock up done I can redraw the actual arms, get them water jet cut and weld them to the collars. *Both work excellent with very little play and have good feel
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:38 PM   #154
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Got my parts from the waterjet guy he did a great job. *I had to bend them in the redneck press brake (aka clamping it in a vice and beating the crap out of it with a BFH)

Couple tweaks but got them mounted. *I was worried my welder wouldn't weld 3/8" plate on its breaker but it did fine. *Everything works great, very pleased with how they turned out esp functionally.







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Old 04-29-2012, 12:04 PM   #155
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Made some more progress.

Welded the flange on the tank to mount a petcock I pulled out from an old YZ450



Mounted a new set of forks I bought from an 07 KTM 525EXC along with the dirt wheels, 320 Braking rotor, caliper and master



Since the CBR is wider than the KTM motor, I needed to align the chain by cheating the countershaft sprocket closer to the case. Did this on the lathe by chucking up the new front sprocket and narrowing it as close as I felt comfortable.

The chain was still slightly cocked, meaning that I needed to space the rear sprocket out by about 1/8"

Drew up a spacer ring on some 1/8" 5052 plate and roughed it out on the bandsaw. Drilled the center out and mounted it to a mandrel and then turned the outside to about 7" diameter. Reversed the jaws and then turn the inner ring to 125mm diameter to fit a KTM hub. Sorry no pics of that happening

Then I laid a KTM sprocket and centered the centers, clamped it, and used a transfer punch to mark the holes.



Drilled out with a center drill



Voila with bolts installed



Here's the wheel mounted up



And chain alignment. I need to move the swingarm guard outboard a little as well as the chain guide



Glory shot.





The next major project is building a header from scratch. I ordered a bunch of mandrel bends from Cone Engineering along with collectors and some spare tubing. I plan to hug the block as close as I reasonably can, the pairs of tubes will need to split the oil filter and collect below the pan. I'm using mild steel tubing and plan to get the header jet coated. I debated SS but Cone recommended using mild and then coating.



The header should be a really fun project, it wasn't cheap and it won't be simple. Lot of things I need to work around. Exiting to a Ducati Arrow race can

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Old 04-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #156
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never minds the pipes, test ride and vids needed!

(you know the gearchange is reversed right?)
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:58 PM   #157
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never minds the pipes, test ride and vids needed!

(you know the gearchange is reversed right?)
I think that might wake up some neighbors...test ride will be done soon, I think it should be ready in a month for the beta ride. I expect there will be future modifications needed and changes so I'll hold off on final paint work and powdercoating until I know it's right.

I'm 99% certain that the gearchange is normal. In fact I just shifted it into neutral yesterday to get the chain around the sprocket and I don't seem to remember being confused on the pattern. You sure about that?
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sailah screwed with this post 04-29-2012 at 03:08 PM
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:24 AM   #158
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heres a shot i just took of my much abused cbr, maybe you are shifting from second into neutral?
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:59 PM   #159
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Huh, guess I was wrong thanks for pointing that out. I'll have to flip the lever on the shift rod and lengthen the connector.

Or pretend I'm badazz and meant for it to have gp shifting...
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:20 AM   #160
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MUST. NOT. FOLLOW. THREAD.



Argh!

Couldn't help myself. You're making me want to invest in a lathe and welder - but I could buy a beater bike for that money too! Choices, choices.

Can't wait to see the finished project! Teach on Shifu!
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:36 AM   #161
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MUST. NOT. FOLLOW. THREAD.



Argh!

Couldn't help myself. You're making me want to invest in a lathe and welder - but I could buy a beater bike for that money too! Choices, choices.

Can't wait to see the finished project! Teach on Shifu!
Believe me when I tell you just buying a lathe or welder is the cheap part. I laughed at my buddy when he told me the same advice.

"You'll spend more in tooling outfitting the lathe than you will on the lathe"

BS I said. Well, I was wrong

However, having a tool like a lathe allows you to make all sorts of useful parts you either had to adapt from things that don't quite fit, or pay someone else through the nose to make for you. Factor in the lag time, cost and the simple fact that the machinist, although qualified, is not standing next to the project bike taking measurements and testing the fit.

I built my last bike without a lathe. I did have a friend who was a machinist who made a few parts for me, but I got by. I really wish I had though. There's some less than satisfactory work on that bike I will redo before it goes to powdercoat.

With the CBR, the starting bike was cheap, but I decided to really try my hardest to do quality work. Having never welded before my last bike, there's a steep learning curve. The same goes for lathe work. Especially when you don't work with your hands around metal everyday and can go weeks without working on these projects, it's easy to get tempted into thinking "that's good enough". And sometimes it is.

There's also the time deadline I was under for the last bike. This one has been the slow boat to Shenzen.

I always bite off way more than I can chew and it's how I learn new skills. Which is really the object of these builds. I can go out and buy one and be done with it. In fact I did that with my new Husky (great bike BTW) because I figured there's no way I could build a better one. And I was right.

I think if you are going to start off with a project, start with something hard enough that you will be satisfied in your work, but not so hard that you can easily get discouraged and the project languishes until you shove it out for parts.

I think a great starter bike to do would be a big bore thumper like an XR600. Great motor, everything else needs to go. Swap in a modern set of USD forks complete with wheel, rotor, bars, triples etc. Those swaps are fairly easy and don't need a ton of machine work, maybe a little.

Then use a KTM PDS swingarm (assuming it will fit around the motor) and fabricate a top mount for the shock. The sprockets will be close enough to align easily, everything else should be straightforward.

You'd have a big thumper with the nuts to keep up, modern suspension to take the hits and confuse the hell out of everyone when they see it.

Don't go into the full on project thinking you will save money. Yes, you can do these on the cheap using cobbled together parts, but I figure my time is worth more than that. Only you can answer that question, but I figure if I'm going to dedicate a year to building a bike, I'm not going to cheap out on parts, because I ride my bikes hard and I want them to perform.

Whew, that was a lot of teaching grasshoppa, I need a nap.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:58 AM   #162
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Oh and if you are going to get a welder, my advice is to start with a TIG.

"Start with a TIG, that's the hardest one to learn!!!" I can hear it now

However if you start with TIG, you don't need to unlearn bad habits from MIG.

If you are moderately coordinated, with a few lessons, you'll be making nice welds. And with some practice, you can get decent welds in aluminum, stainless as well which are very common on bikes. I'd say 60% of what I weld is aluminum.

I sold my MIG (really nice 220v lincoln) once I got my TIG.

The TIG process is quiet (other than AC), smooth, splatter free and really lets you "feel" the weld as you go along. You are in control of everything, speed, heat filler material. Which is why you need to be slightly coordinated However the end result is miles better than the "glue gun" method. I'm a terrible MIG welder and I'm only slightly better at TIG.

I started off with a $500 chinese TIG welder that worked great. Sold it on here for basically what I paid for it and bought a nicer Lincoln TIG machine with pulse and a few more features. I couldn't tell the difference in the arc, however the Lincoln is much higher quality machine in terms of build quality, connectors etc. It's an easy trip down to your welder supply for parts, torches etc which are all standard. The chinese machine I had I needed to cobble together a torch because the US ones wouldn't fit.

However the thing to remember about quality tools is that they don't really lose value in the time frame you will probably have them. I paid $900 for my new to me Lincoln, and I have no doubt in my mind I could sell it right now for that. TIG machines go fast, so don't look at the machine purchase as spending money, you are simply tying up equity temporarily. At least thats what I tell my wife.

Same goes for the lathe, although the tooling costs to outfit one can quickly outpace the initial machine cost. Mine is an Enco 13 x 40 machine. 3 HP, 3 phase. Has tons of options, threads metric, coolant, foot brake etc. I paid $2500, and it's about a $5-6000 machine. I have probably spent at least $2500 in tooling for it.

$5000 can buy you a really nice bike.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:29 AM   #163
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Had me ready to go out and buy all the goodies, and then had to add the last line!

But as I'm sure many or most here agree - the satisfaction of working on the bike is almost as high as riding the finished product. And in my experience, the joy of working on the bike is directly related to the ease in which you can do the work you want/need to. NOTHING is simple here in China, and the quality of work done here is the worst; second only to the materials used (coating, prepping, and treating don't exist here in the language much less as a concept). Over the past 4 years I've always been "leaving in 6 months" but have still managed to amass a garage that is slowly filling with tools and bikes.

There's nothing worse than working hard to make a new engine mount and get everything juuuuust right, only to have the local welder try to line up the mount where you're shouting at him to put it, close his eyes (never seen a welding mask here) and spray slag and weld everywhere with an arc welder - and get the placement wrong to boot. It's high time I do this stuff myself.

You're advice regarding the TIG welder is much appreciated. I've got a steady hand, and have always subscribed to the "learn the hardest thing now, and everything else will come easy" (with varying success) . I think the welder will be first, and the lathe will come later. I shouldn't have any problem sourcing a Chinese made TIG welder I think :)

Thanks for letting me hijack the thread a bit! I'll be a good student now

REALLY looking forward to seeing the exhaust header build as well. I have a lust for thin-walled twisty snaking exhaust, and would love to be able to do that myself (another reason to learn the TIG welding asap!)
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:04 AM   #164
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Not a problem on the advice, but remember I'm just as novice as you are, just been doing it for a couple years longer

The inverter welders coming out of China are actually decent. The Everlast/Longevity brands seem to be the most popular. I almost pulled the trigger on a top of the line Everlast machine with a 5 year warranty and then got skittish. My local welding supply took 2 of the Lincoln Precision Tig 185 on trade and sold it to me cheap. I buy all my other stuff from them so I got a good deal.

I'm excited about the header build. The reason I need to tuck it in closer is the 21" front wheel takes up a lot of real estate. I compressed the forks all the way like if you cased the bike and the wheel comes within a couple inches of the oil filter. Enough clearance but not with the pipe there.

I plan on splitting the Cyl's 1-2 & 3-4 to the side of the oil filter as a pair. Hug the block reasonably close, then collect the pairs first under the oil pan (4-> 2) and then another larger collector just in back of that (2-> 1). At that point I should be at the back of the motor and will bend the 2" tubing around the swingarm/rear master cylinder area and up to the carbon can.

I measured the OD of the stock Honda tubing and it's about 1 3/8". Nobody makes bends in that size. Cone Engineering has 1 1/4 OD bends and I also have a hydraulic tubing bender with 1 1/4" dies so I can bend to 61 degrees if I want. The mandrel bends have a really tight radius, like 2.5" vs the 4.5" CLR of my tubing dies, so it was worth getting some 90 degree bends from them as the initial pipes coming out of the engine block.

However stepping down the exhaust OD has its plus/minus too. I'm not an expert, but the guy that sold me the bends was. He said it will increase torque as a function of back pressure I think. Anyways with such a screamer motor, I don't think losing top end in favor of bottom end is a bad thing

Here's where the lathe comes in. In order to fit the tubing to the block, I need to make up some collars that will fit the block, say 1.5" OD and then reduce to 1.25" for the tubing itself. I also need to radius the inlet of these collars to not block the flow and I will essentially dolly the tubing or flare it at these collars to match the OD of the block like a trumpet. And then weld them to the tubing. Without a lathe, I'd be farming that job out for $100 whereas I can make them in a matter of minutes.

Hopefully should be a fun project to showcase all the discliplines of welding, lathe work, fit up etc.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:22 AM   #165
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Good advice on learning to TIG.

My feeling is that owning and knowing how to use tools is a reward unto itself. Every time I make something, I get a very visceral sense of pleasure.

Regarding the exhaust flanges, hit up SpeedyMetals for a 1' length of 1/4" wall 1.5" tube - then you don't have to waste all time and material (and money) cutting away the solid center of a bar.

If you have or have access to a sheet metal roller, I can teach you to make collectors. Good fun! FYI, those 3-in-1 machines are kind of handy, but don't expect the shear function to work. At least not right out of the box.

Your guy was right - header diameter does play a large part in torque delivery. Length of the header pipe has more to do with what RPM the torque peak occurs -- longer = lower, shorter = higher. Measure the stock collector distance, and make it longer than that to lower the torque peak.

a
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