ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-06-2012, 08:24 AM   #31
ZLTFUL
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ZLTFUL's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Flat Desolate Wasteland, IA
Oddometer: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
How did I ever survive to 50+.
Now that broken and battered parts don't heal so fast:
I am with you Grreatdog.
I started out rarely even wearing jeans on my dirtbike as a kid let alone a helmet.
Back then, I healed fairly quickly after a crash.
Even in my early 20s, I wore little more than a helmet.
As I began to mature a bit, I started wearing helmet, gloves, jacket, jeans and work boots to ride in.
Through several crashes, I began to learn that jeans shred when run across an abrasive surface.
So these days, I am ATGATT. I feel more comfortable wearing full gear.
In fact, last spring at Road America for a race weekend, I was working on my brakes the night before in the paddock. I rode around the paddock starting to bed the new pads in and was in a pair of track pants and a t-shirt. I felt naked.

I too worry about blunt force trauma. No amount of gear would have prevented my 4 broken ribs that I was blessed with at Motorsports Park Hastings in 2009. Lucky turn 13...
But had this been on the street, had I crashed in the same manner, had there been no gear, I would have not walked away. I would have been ground to the skull on my head. My entire right side would have been shaved down pretty well.
Instead, I popped right back up and tried to pick my bike back up not even realizing I had hit my head hard enough to grind through the shell of my helmet. My leathers wear nicely scuffed but still usable and passed re-inspection.

Nowadays, I will ride with anyone. EXCEPT those who don't even wear a helmet.
It's your life and you can live it how you want to. But I don't want to be the one hold your brains in your skull while waiting for the ambulance to arrive.

As I have said for a few years now. Leather is far cheaper than skin grafts.
ZLTFUL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:28 AM   #32
RidingDonkeys
Purveyor of Awesome
 
RidingDonkeys's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Pines, North Carolina, USA
Oddometer: 6,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinva View Post
No.

This one always makes me smile. This gal shouldn't be the ATGATT poster child. She should be the "don't do dumb shit" poster child. Every bit of that road rash could have been avoided by using some common sense.


Sent from my DROID 2 using Typotalk
__________________
Clinging to sanity, one motorcycle at a time.
RidingDonkeys is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:34 AM   #33
slartidbartfast
Love those blue pipes
 
slartidbartfast's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Southern Louisiana or Southern England or ...
Oddometer: 4,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
I made the statement: ATGATT is overrated.... it's for guys who are either too afraid of a boo-boo or those who feel like thay have to put on an amour suit to prove how manly they are to participate in such a dangerous activity....over in the Killboy failure Dragon thread and it elecited a few comments.
Seems like the Killboy Failure thread has generated a lot of spinoffs
Quote:
...

What say you?

How many of you guys wear ALL the gear EVERY SINGLE TIME you ride a bike, and if you don't wear ALL the gear EVERY SINGLE TIME why not?
I think I ride ATGATT but some would disagree.

I guess it depends what you mean by ALL THE GEAR. For example, I ALWAYS have jacket, full-face or flip-up helmet, gloves and boots. VERY occasionally, I will ride with trousers that are not armored (although it's probably been a year or more.)

I don't have a spine protector, other than the normal pads in my jackets. Often, I wear swat boots rather than "proper" motorcycle boots. Some people would consider that under-dressed. Some of my gloves don't have carpal protection, etc., either.

I'm not scared, I'm not anal, it's definitely not the image (anyone who knows me knows I have ZERO image consciousness.) I'm just in the habit of putting it all on as part of the same process that has me checking the tires and wheeling the bike out of the garage. Pretty much in the same way as you'd grab your keys, I grab my gear and helmet before I ride.

Excuses about temperature and humidity are pretty lame. Once you're moving, a mesh jacket is probably cooler than a t-shirt because it lets the air through while keeping the sun off your skin.
__________________
MSF Ridercoach IBA: 35353 95 R1100GSA, 93 GTS1000, 85 R80RT, 93 DR350/435, 99 RX125, 78 DT100
January 2010 New Zealand South Island ride
Summer 2009 UK to Alps ride
Summer 2008 UK End-to-End ride
slartidbartfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:38 AM   #34
TrashCan
Scary Jerry
 
TrashCan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Louisville, Tn
Oddometer: 3,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
This one always makes me smile. This gal shouldn't be the ATGATT poster child. She should be the "don't do dumb shit" poster child. Every bit of that road rash could have been avoided by using some common sense.


Sent from my DROID 2 using Typotalk


Hindsight and all that.

__________________
X the DY.

TrashCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:40 AM   #35
perterra
-. --- .--. .
 
perterra's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tejas
Oddometer: 7,400
Only over rated if you dont fall off. Wear what you want, I dont care. But it's a bitch ending up on your hands and knees at 60 mph.

For the most part I wont say it's over rated, I will say it's your own business what risk you wish to take. Had a guy tell me my open face helmet was unsafe once, he was smoking a cig in his power ranger git up at the time.
__________________
My Father was my maker. Poverty was my maker. Distrust was my maker. I have met them all my life.


IBA 22425
perterra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:42 AM   #36
crazyjeeper
Gnarly Adventurer
 
crazyjeeper's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Williston, North Dakota
Oddometer: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
I'm on the lookout for a set of armored mesh pants that zip all the way up the leg like my storm suit. That should make being ATGATT a little more reasonable.
Olympia Airglide pants would fit the bill. They aren't cheap, but they are very well made and feature the full leg zipper. I've got a pair and when I was commuting to school getting them on and off was a 30 second affair.
__________________
Current:, 2012 Yamaha Super Tenere, 1997 Honda XR650L, 1985 Honda XR350R, 1976 Honda GL1000 Goldwing
Past:
1998 Triumph Tiger, 1993 Honda CB750 Nighthawk, 1984 Honda VF500F Interceptor
crazyjeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:46 AM   #37
Roam
If you want to
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: NoVA
Oddometer: 917
Definitely overrated. The only time I wear all the gear is track days, dirt riding, or adventure touring.

Usually wear a helmet, jacket, gloves, and boots but will ride in a t-shirt. Feeling the sun and wind on my skin feels great and that's why I ride.
__________________
http://www.twowheelsgood.net




Roam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:53 AM   #38
lemieuxmc
Banned
 
lemieuxmc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East La Jolla... it's just Clairemont!!
Oddometer: 3,360
Wear a $10 helmet if you have a $10 head...

Well there is only a little truth in that, the more expensive helmet will often be more comfortable, lighter, and will offer more protection, but even the cheapest DOT approved helmet will prevent over 90% of the blows that would be fatal if you were not wearing a helmet.

By all means wear a quality helmet, but the difference in protection between a $500 helmet and a $100 helmet is not 5 times greater. Realistically, you would be better off with the $100 helmet and the other $400 invested in boots, Kevlar jeans, jacket with chest and back protection and gloves.

And if you think it can't be done for $500 just check competition accesories.com, leather up, or CycleGear off the top of my head.
lemieuxmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:56 AM   #39
Xtremjeepn
Motorhead!
 
Xtremjeepn's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: SaddleRock, Colorado
Oddometer: 1,566
Laugh

There is an important piece of this story that is missing!

"Back in the day", "gear" was rare, expensive and hard to get.

There were very few choices, most of it leather, and most of it very uncomfortable and expensive.

Even good motorcross gear was not available at every corner mortorcycle shop and of course there was no Internet to order from. I honestly did not even know some of this 70s gear existed until seeing it on the Internet years later!

The "gear" back than really could make the riding experience much less fun!

Today there is so much more gear to be had at reasonable prices that there should be little excuse to having it.

Its very easy today to have gear for every occasion and type of riding you plan to do that day. Sure you may not have the "perfect" gear for the best protection in all situations, but there is really no excuse to not have the most reasonable combo for that moment.

Hot? There are full mesh jackets and pants, fully vented textiles, etc etc. Even pants that zip into shorts for when you get off the bike. Low top riding shoes, boots, etc.


Don't want to look like a storm trooper? Kevlar lined jeans, plain looking boots, etc!


There are also so many people looking to get rid of good used gear that there really is no excuse for not having and using it.


FWIW, in 40ish years of being on bikes, the ONLY time I have ever been hit by a car was "just running around the block" Doing 15 mph and got hit by a lady turning into her driveway!!
I had full gear on!





Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
How did I ever survive to 50+.





Now that broken and battered parts don't heal so fast:

__________________
Cole Ford<----my iPad app ...and iPhone version.....Android Tablet version

06 KTM 950 Adventure(The Fainting Goat)
02 F650GS DAKAR
2 KLR650s Travel bikes http://coffeemotorcycleswine.blogspot.com/
Xtremjeepn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:10 AM   #40
Grreatdog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Grreatdog's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Annapolis, MD
Oddometer: 7,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremjeepn View Post
There is an important piece of this story that is missing!

"Back in the day", "gear" was rare, expensive and hard to get.
True enough. I kept my skin through my worst high speed asphalt crash on that same bike by pure dumb luck. It was a cold night and I just happened to be wearing a snowmobile suit when I hit the pavement at 55+.

Aside from my helmets, goggles and gloves that snowmobile suit was my only dedicated riding gear back then. Our local bike shops didn't sell anything but helmets, goggles, MX mouth guards, gloves and MX boots.

We wore what we had. Which wasn't much. My whole ensemble in that second picture cost less (adjusted for 30 years of inflation) than just my Shoei helmet cost in the first picture. Times have changed for the better in terms of gear.
__________________
640E, MXC200, XT200
Grreatdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:11 AM   #41
perterra
-. --- .--. .
 
perterra's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tejas
Oddometer: 7,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremjeepn View Post

There are also so many people looking to get rid of good used gear that there really is no excuse for not having and using it.


FWIW, in 40ish years of being on bikes, the ONLY time I have ever been hit by a car was "just running around the block" Doing 15 mph and got hit by a lady turning into her driveway!!
I had full gear on!

There comes a point that it's just not worth getting on the bike with that mindset. Before I put on kevlar pants, boots, jacket, gloves just to drive a mile and a half to the hardware store to pick up one bolt, then come back home and take all that shit off, I'll drive the truck.
__________________
My Father was my maker. Poverty was my maker. Distrust was my maker. I have met them all my life.


IBA 22425
perterra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:17 AM   #42
gfloyd2002
Title Free Since '12
 
gfloyd2002's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Bridgetown, Barbados
Oddometer: 138
Quote:
Is ATGATT overrated? Sure it was a little over the top but there are truths on both ends of the spectrum.
No. Seems pretty one sided in favor of wearing gear to me. There are numerous studies that support the fact that wearing gear significantly reduces risk of serious injury. Here is but one of many results (this one from the George Institute Study): Motorcyclists were significantly less likely to be admitted to hospital if they crashed wearing motorcycle jackets (RR=0.79), pants (RR=0.49), or gloves (RR=0.41). When garments included fitted body armour there was a significantly reduced risk of injury to the upper body (RR=0.77), hands and wrists (RR=0.55), legs (RR = 0.60), feet and ankles (RR=0.54). Non-motorcycle boots were also associated with a reduced risk of injury compared to shoes or joggers (RR=0.46). (RR is the relative risk ratio, showing the percentage of risk of one group over another, so a RR of less than one means something is less likely to occur by a certain percentage). Another study also looked at the role of protective gear in reducing serious injury. The MAIDS study found that: In 74% of the cases the upper injuries were reduced or prevented by upper torso clothing. For lower extremity injuries, gear reduced or prevented 66.3% of injuries.

Quote:
Rarely do I ride ATGATT and if you guys are honest with yourselves I bet most of you don't ride ATGATT either as it implies ALL the gear ALL the time. One of the best things about the bike is I can jump on it and be gone in a second and have fun running my mundane errands.
Nope. Every commute every day, I wear helmet, jacket, pants (or one piece), boots, gloves, ear protection. Takes me less than 60 seconds to don my gear head to toe. Not much to ask, and saying gear takes too long to put on is a copout.

Quote:
It's hot and humid here, I'm talking over 90F with humidity above 50% in the summer and that typically means 6 moths or more. You walk outside and you will be wet with sweat in short order. If I'm running errands around town and will be in and out a few stores I'm not putting on long pants, boots, gloves, and a heavy jacket....it just isn't happening.
I'm calling b.s. I live in Barbados, so I know about heat and humidity. It really isn't a problem with the right gear. I can get to work and back without being sweaty in full gear. I just wear breathable gear. REV'IT Turbine stuff works great, as does my Teiz Mojave one piece. My gloves are Held Airstreams, and breath really nicely for year-round summer temps. Lots of other good, protective options for hot weather. Overall, no more uncomfortable that going without protection. In fact, keeping direct sun off of me while allowing wind to blow through is perfect -- I'm more comfortable with my gear on than without.

Quote:
Not only will I be uncomfortable but it will add double the time to dress in my gear, remove the gear at each stop, and gear back up again. I really might as well have taken the car...and isn't that what is suppose to be the benefit of bikes...less gas consumption, easier to park, easier to manuever in heavy congested traffic, easier on the environment so more people should be riding?
I wear the gear around at my stops, unless it is work or I'm going to be off the bike for a long time. Not at all hard, except that the helmet is a PITA. Got a backpack to stuff gloves and jacket in that has a helmet sling, and that helps. When I get off my bike, I'm usually walking to the store at the same time or a few seconds after people getting out of cars that arrived at the same time. Really not that big of a deal. Takes me about 60 seconds to get everything off when I get to work if I fully take all the gear off, so a bit more of a delay. But 1 minute really not a practical issue.

Quote:
For ME it is those risks that make riding fun and get the adrenaline pumping.
Now we get to the heart of the matter. Increase the risks of riding to get your adrenaline pumping? You must really enjoy Russian roulette. Or unprotected sex with unknown partners. Lots of risk and adrenaline there. Lots of fun to be had riding with gear, and certainly more enjoyment if you happen to crash. With the right gear you don't feel isolated from the road at all, it works with you.

Quote:
I've been down 3 times from low siding, only once did I have on a helmet and twice with shorts but no gloves and tennis shoes. I got some rash on my leg and forearm. Picked gravel out each time, sure it hurt but not THAT bad and it healed up just fine. Each time I went down I was doing something stupid and the accidents were 100% avoidable, I learned from those experiences and I'm a better rider as a result.
You have been lucky. I'm happy about that. But your logic doesn't work - because I've fallen in minor accidents before and been okay, no need to wear gear. There is no guarantee, and in fact I would say odds are significantly against it, as is easily demonstrable from the literature.

Quote:
My point was not to claim that one shouldn't wear some protective gear but to point out that when others don't dress the same they have reasons for doing so and have at some level made a conscious decision to choose their attire.
I see your point, but disagree. Forums are about the exchange of information, maybe even helping people. And in a motorcycle forum, helping people avoid injury is a pretty noble goal. That someone else thinks differently doesn't mean we shouldn't post.

Quote:
My biggest fear while riding is blunt force trauma or a spinal cord injury. ATGATT won't do much to prevent either in a accident with signicant impact...yea your corpse may look a little better lying in the casket but your still lying in a casket.
Reductio ad absurdum argument here - it is false logic. Because in the very worst accidents even the best gear can't hurt you, therefore no reason to wear gear at all? No. There are many accidents that CE and CE2 rated padding can prevent significant injury, including to your spine. Specifically, CE2 rated back protection can absorb significant amounts of force. By wearing back protection, you can signifcantly reduce the chance of the very injuries you fear. It doesn't eliminate it, but there are accidents where it would be the difference between life and death. The studies directly refute your argument.

Quote:
How many of you guys wear ALL the gear EVERY SINGLE TIME you ride a bike . . .
/me raises hand.
__________________
Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvements are roads of genius ~ William Blake
gfloyd2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:18 AM   #43
daveinva
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Washington, D.C.
Oddometer: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
This one always makes me smile. This gal shouldn't be the ATGATT poster child. She should be the "don't do dumb shit" poster child. Every bit of that road rash could have been avoided by using some common sense.
Like by wearing gear?

I don't know why they call it "common" sense...
daveinva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:19 AM   #44
windmill
Beastly Adventurer
 
windmill's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Kent, Washington State
Oddometer: 4,053
Seems obvious to me,
The more gear you wear, the better your odds of avoiding or reducing injury, but no amount of gear will make riding "safe". How can anyone argue that????

I'm a MTGATT rider.
Being a full time year round rider in the PNW, staying warm and dry is a priority, and gear that works on and off the bike is important.

I always wear a modular helmet, gloves, steel toe work boots, and jacket. Only 1 of my jackets has armor but I rarely wear that one, I wear jeans or work pants, my only riding pants are rain pants.

In the past 25 years I have been hit twice by cars, and down twice, the amount of gear I wear allowed me to walk away each time with a few very minor bruises and scratches.

I believe in gear, but I just don't feel the need for %100 track level gear for how I ride.
__________________
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".
windmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:24 AM   #45
RidingDonkeys
Purveyor of Awesome
 
RidingDonkeys's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Pines, North Carolina, USA
Oddometer: 6,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjeeper View Post
Olympia Airglide pants would fit the bill. They aren't cheap, but they are very well made and feature the full leg zipper. I've got a pair and when I was commuting to school getting them on and off was a 30 second affair.
Thanks for the tip. I'm checking those out.

Sent from my DROID 2 using Typotalk
__________________
Clinging to sanity, one motorcycle at a time.
RidingDonkeys is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014