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Old 04-06-2012, 03:53 PM   #76
NJ Moto
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Originally Posted by boon booni View Post
i don't think it's overrated, and yes i wear it all the time.

Every
single
time
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:10 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
A lot of ASSumptions in your discourse just now.

IMHO It won't end well because this is not a cruiser forum. The majority wear at least some gear, and many actually have an opinion about the intelligence of those who do not wear gear. Your post is very telling on how you stand, and defensive before the first reply.

This will not end well.

Jim
Thanks Jim.

Points taken. I can only speak on my experiences and very few riders in my area are ATGATT, that includes GS/GSA riders as well as cruiser riders.

I'm just trying to understand why some feel the need to make comments about the intelligence of others based simply on their bike and gear choice.

I'll bet some here ride both motorycles and road or mountain bicycles and those bicycle riders are a competitive bunch. They tend to ride hard and fast be it on the pavement or in the woods. Their safety gear is minimal compared to motorycle gear, yet the hazards aren't that much different.

How does one rationalize he must wear a full face helmet, full gloves, boots over the ankle, textile or leather jacket/pants with body armour on the bike and a spandex leotard, fingerless gloves, less than half-helmet head protection, and lightweight shoes with exposed arms and legs when on a bicycle.

I'm not saying wearing gear is pointless. I'm asking at what point is wearing all the gear too much of an impediment such that one either decides to take the car, or wear less than full gear.

If by some law it was mandated that one must wear full protective gear (helmet, gloves, boots, body armour) at all times I honestly would probably give up riding. It's the wind in my face, sun on my skin that makes it so enjoyable to me.

BTW, I work in health care and often see catastrophic spinal cord injury patients. Given the choice I'd choose death.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:18 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Thanks Jim.

Points taken. I can only speak on my experiences and very few riders in my area are ATGATT, that includes GS/GSA riders as well as cruiser riders.

I'm just trying to understand why some feel the need to make comments about the intelligence of others based simply on their bike and gear choice.

I'll bet some here ride both motorycles and road or mountain bicycles and those bicycle riders are a competitive bunch. They tend to ride hard and fast be it on the pavement or in the woods. Their safety gear is minimal compared to motorycle gear, yet the hazards aren't that much different.

How does one rationalize he must wear a full face helmet, full gloves, boots over the ankle, textile or leather jacket/pants with body armour on the bike and a spandex leotard, fingerless gloves, less than half-helmet head protection, and lightweight shoes with exposed arms and legs when on a bicycle.

I'm not saying wearing gear is pointless. I'm asking at what point is wearing all the gear too much of an impediment such that one either decides to take the car, or wear less than full gear.

If by some law it was mandated that one must wear full protective gear (helmet, gloves, boots, body armour) at all times I honestly would probably give up riding. It's the wind in my face, sun on my skin that makes it so enjoyable to me.

BTW, I work in health care and often see catastrophic spinal cord injury patients. Given the choice I'd choose death.

I ride mountain bikes, though not competitively, and am planning to try the upgrade to a full face helmet. It's not nearly as practical to wear all the gear on a bicycle because you'd quickly overheat, but gloves are doable, and really a must as when you come off a bike typically the first thing you do is put your hands out.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
So the past 49 (soon to be 50) years of riding/racing (including 14 landspeed records and a few offroad and pavement trophies)are null because of what you "think"? I'd wager that your response required little thought. Do what you please and I'll continue the path I've successfully chosen.
Obviouslyly this response required little thought since my response was right in line with your original post.


Lets see here.....you claimed skills were important to you.....and that you tend to always wear your gear....hmm.....
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:29 PM   #80
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Meh

Stay out of my lane if you're going the other way. Move over if you're going slower than me. Don't force me to avoid you. Give others assistance if it's needed. Put whatever tire on your bike you want to. Wear what you feel is appropriate.

I'll do the same.

Is ATGATT overrated?? Of course not. It saves lives and protects the body. That said, I'm not going to wrap myself up in a giant ball of bubblewrap and bounce down the freeway. Might put that on my bucket list though... yea, definitely putting that on my bucket list.

For the record, I always wear gear. It will be lighter or heavier gear based on what the weather is doing and what kind of ride I'm going on. I'm not going to be wearing full race leathers going to the store when the max speed limit is 35mph, but I will have on my jacket, overpants, boots, gloves and helmet. And I always try to keep my head in the game.

Ugly screwed with this post 04-06-2012 at 04:31 PM Reason: more good, less bad.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:35 PM   #81
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Once knew a very pretty gal that liked to ride in shorts, tank top tennis shoes and no helmet(along time ago no laws then) she took a slider, not so pretty after that
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:42 PM   #82
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Hmm..

I wear all the gear I have all the time. Modular FF helmet, gloves, pants, boots, jacket. Doesn't matter if I intend to ride 50 miles or half a mile. I'll gear up even if I'm just going to the grocery store that's half a block away, but don't feel like walking because I have quite a few things on the list. I'd feel like a real idiot if I made the assumption of "oh, I'm only going half a block, what could happen?" and I wound up getting banged into in the store parking lot.

Even when the temps climb up to 100 degrees I'll be wearing the same ensemble. I figure if I can tolerate wearing full "battle rattle" in hot/humid or hot/dry conditions, I'll survive wearing gear while riding the bike. Ticket is to stay properly hydrated. Further, I'd rather be a little on the "warm" side than feel the stinging of rocks, bugs, or whatever kind of debris bouncing off of bare skin. I'm also not a fan of wind burn or sunburn. I'll keep myself covered up, thanks.

So, I don't think being geared up is over rated at all.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:43 PM   #83
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I don't know about over-rated, under-rated, or just right. I think that if safety is high on your list of priorities, but you still want to ride, gear is right up there with proper training, maintaining situational awareness, good bike setup/maintenance, regular practice drills, skill implementation, and visibility.

I don't wear ATGATT. Most people in this thread who have claimed to wear ATGATT, IMO, do not. There are a few other items I would like to add to my own gear, of which I wear MOTGIHATT (most of the gear I have, all the time).

I'm wanting to add an upgrade of full hardshell thorax (upper body) protector, a LEATT/airbag (for neck stability) or similar, some compression shorts with CE hip/coccyx/thigh armor, and some full-height moto-specific boots to my current gear (3/4-length HiViz Tourmaster Sonora, Tourmaster Flex pants, various hard-knuckle moto gloves, safety-toed over-ankle footwear, and various DOT FF $100 helmets). I'd also like to get a hydration pack with multiple additional bladders, and one of those pre-soak cooling vests to wear under the mesh jacket on really hot days. A lot of my gear is also for comfort. 'Less sunburn/windburn/deafness/swamp-foot/crotch-rot/exposure/etc. when you wear the right gear. It's also more comfortable not being injured from an off. I fall offroad all the time. Without gear, I'd probably spend a LOT of time being injured.

My bikes are also improved with better tires, better mirrors, better lighting, and a bunch of red/white DOT reflective tape on the sides/rear of my topbox. My lighting is continually improving as I get the funds. I'd like to add braided-stainless brake hoses too.

I wouldn't sweat somebody else's choice in gear or no gear. I barely sweat my own, even though I choose to wear MOTGATT. None of us is going to live forever anyway. Carry decent medical, disability, and life insurance. Then nobody's ass-out if you go splat.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:46 PM   #84
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A full face helmet has saved my face/chin twice in 40 years of riding on the street.
Too many times to count dirt riding. Before full face helmets,
we would install football face guards and wrap the opening between the two bars w/ductape.

I really don't care what people wear or don't wear while riding as long as they pick-up the tab for a get off.
And that includes loooong term health care... like drain bamage.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:51 PM   #85
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I think the question is really about cognizance of the risks associated, for both sides.

ATGATT is really helpful in reducing injuries and risk of death during a crash of any level. It reduces, but doesn't eliminate. There are obviously situations where ATGATT just makes cleanup easier (I'm thinking head-on with 18 wheeler, etc).

If someone doesn't wear gear thinking they just won't crash or it won't be serious (just some rash, etc) it is very wrong-headed. Squids are here, as well as some pirates.

If you don't wear gear because you don't want to, but you know damn well that if you crash, you will likely suffer severe injury, that was avoidable, it is fine. People make their own choices, and so long as they are informed, I will respect that. My dad will not wear a full face helmet (my mom and I bought him a nice 3/4 with a face shield) or armored pants. I got him a nice, armored jacket to keep him from wearing a plain leather jacket (non-motorcycle specific: thin-ish leather). Its his choice, and it is very informed: he worked in the ER in south San Francisco for 15 or so years. He's seen what happens. Amputations from impact, the works. He is also very conservative in his riding.

I wear gear whenever I am riding for the purpose of riding, or fast, or long distances, or in riskier situations (traffic, at night, etc). I have a zippered together set of armored jacket and overpants, all made from thick leather. I've worn it in everything from 37 degrees to 115 degrees. If I am just riding around town, I will take my risks without the pants, but usually wear the jacket. I figure: bicycle speeds, bicycle injuries (and I've had some pretty fast crashes on bikes. They aren't fun). I still almost always wear a full face helmet. I feel very uncomfortable without a helmet (and I have ridden without one before).

I carry a half helmet on my bike (its all that fits in the side-cases and on my big head). If I need to pick up my girlfriend somewhere in Berkeley, I give her the gear, and my helmet. I'll wear the half helmet. She's pretty, and I'd like to keep her that way.


My uncle won't even wear a beanie helmet, unless it is mandatory. I suppose that's his choice, and he doesn't ride aggressively or in traffic (Cruisers: A Guzzi California and a Road King), so that's less of a risk.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:11 PM   #86
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Another question.....do any of you guys who are not 100% ATGATT find you ride differently when your not fully geared up.

Personally, if going to the store 2 miles away and in only shorts, T-shirt, and tennis shoes I ride slower and take less risks than when I have on a full-face, gloves, jacket, and boots.

Skill set aside, those riding cruisers typically ride less aggressivley than those on non-cruisers. I think the white coat study and embodied cogniton referenced in the other thread exposes some hidden truths in human behavior. Putting on full gear heightens the dangers of riding for some and makes us more aware so less risk taking, yet for others it makes us feel less vulnerable resulting in more risk taking.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:26 PM   #87
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The direction of this thread brings up the point of what is ATGATT? All the gear you could conceivably wear, or all the gear you currently own? BIg difference. Are you ATGATT if you don't wear a neck brace? Molded dental guard? (Hey, you could chip a tooth or bite off your tongue!) What about protecting the junk? Ruptured or contused testes, scrotum tears, and pelvic fractures are documented in accident reports, usually from over-the-handbar type getoffs on sportbikes. So are you not really ATGATT if you're not wearing a cup? Where does it stop? Yes, I'm being a little facitious here, but we risk getting to point that ATGATT is a meaningless plattitude.

Motorcycle accident injuries would be reduced exponentially if every rider would just wear at least a 3/4 helmet, gloves, long pants and over-the-ankle boots. There's a long, long way to go just getting a majority to agree to that much, good luck making everyone ride around like Spaceman Spiff.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:28 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Another question.....do any of you guys who are not 100% ATGATT find you ride differently when your not fully geared up.

Personally, if going to the store 2 miles away and in only shorts, T-shirt, and tennis shoes I ride slower and take less risks than when I have on a full-face, gloves, jacket, and boots.

Skill set aside, those riding cruisers typically ride less aggressivley than those on non-cruisers. I think the white coat study and embodied cogniton referenced in the other thread exposes some hidden truths in human behavior. Putting on full gear heightens the dangers of riding for some and makes us more aware so less risk taking, yet for others it makes us feel less vulnerable resulting in more risk taking.

Aggressiveness is a big issue. The way I look at it is

What is fun on a sport bike?: Seeing how fast you can go, or how quick you can take turns.

What is fun on a cruiser?: Making noise. Looking cool. Riding in straight lines, comfortably, with noise and vibration.

What is fun on a touring bike (and I include "cruisers" here when they are used for touring)?: Seeing and going places. Often on empty roads with few cars.

Which of these are dangerous? Anything where you push limits, sometimes you will go past them.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:32 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Most people in this thread who have claimed to wear ATGATT, IMO, do not.
This intrigues me as the OP mentioned it as well.

Do you really think we are lying? And what would make you think that?
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:42 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Celtic Curmudgeon View Post
The direction of this thread brings up the point of what is ATGATT? All the gear you could conceivably wear, or all the gear you currently own? BIg difference. Are you ATGATT if you don't wear a neck brace? Molded dental guard? (Hey, you could chip a tooth or bite off your tongue!) What about protecting the junk? Ruptured or contused testes, scrotum tears, and pelvic fractures are documented in accident reports, usually from over-the-handbar type getoffs on sportbikes. So are you not really ATGATT if you're not wearing a cup? Where does it stop? Yes, I'm being a little facitious here, but we risk getting to point that ATGATT is a meaningless plattitude.

Motorcycle accident injuries would be reduced exponentially if every rider would just wear at least a 3/4 helmet, gloves, long pants and over-the-ankle boots. There's a long, long way to go just getting a majority to agree to that much, good luck making everyone ride around like Spaceman Spiff.
This is a GREAT point. Is a short sleeve, kevlar T-shirt ATGATT? (do they even make one?)

I have two kits.

COMMUTER = Joe Rocket pants with CE knee pads and thin hip pads
Kilimanjaro jacket
FF street helmet
Waterproof touring boots
Thin, non-gauntlet gloves (or thick winter ones)

OFF ROAD = Same pants
Mesh jacket
FX-37 DS helmet
AXO pressure suit
Gaerne MX boots
Same gloves

My touring boots have FAR less protection than my MX boots, but are so much easier to walk in. In fact, they have less ankle protection than some hiking boots I have owned. Are they ATGATT?
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