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Old 04-09-2012, 12:02 PM   #61
Silver
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I said well set up bikes. Obviously Rossi's bike is not well set up. I'm wondering where the mis communication is coming from really. The Yamaha guys for WSBK said they learned more about their bike from Rossi when he was doing some riding on it with them with a broken leg. He also went faster with a broken leg than the WSBK guys did the weekend previous.

As much money that they have spent, where is the breakdown coming from? Obviously they can build a bike that can win(WSBK) but why is the MotoGP bike so hard to ride? Yes yes yes, Casey could ride it, blah blah he's still a huge whiner. No one else seems to be able too. Shocking really but that's where we're at.

Ducati needs to produce something. Currently I don't think anyone knows what that is. Eesh. But I don't think Rossi is done. We shall see. If it is his swan song, then so be it. But with just one race and an angry interview, you can't call the entire season.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post


I said well set up bikes. Obviously Rossi's bike is not well set up. I'm wondering where the mis communication is coming from really. The Yamaha guys for WSBK said they learned more about their bike from Rossi when he was doing some riding on it with them with a broken leg. He also went faster with a broken leg than the WSBK guys did the weekend previous.

As much money that they have spent, where is the breakdown coming from? Obviously they can build a bike that can win(WSBK) but why is the MotoGP bike so hard to ride? Yes yes yes, Casey could ride it, blah blah he's still a huge whiner. No one else seems to be able too. Shocking really but that's where we're at.

Ducati needs to produce something. Currently I don't think anyone knows what that is. Eesh. But I don't think Rossi is done. We shall see. If it is his swan song, then so be it. But with just one race and an angry interview, you can't call the entire season.


I don't have any answers beyond the lessons that are always learnt, the hard way, when an athlete passes the torch against his will.

Honest, I have no ill-will toward Rossi, he's one of histories great sporting heroes.

But, ya know, sometimes it's hard being the messenger
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:49 PM   #63
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Yeah right now it seems everyone is writing him off. I'm not, he was getting back up to speed on the Yamaha while being injured and still qualifying decent. The Duck he's not doing any of that. Wonky.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:41 PM   #64
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It's all in his head. He's lost it. Dropped the ball.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:14 AM   #65
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Obviously they can build a bike that can win(WSBK)
I wonder how things would stand if the evil empire and the musical instruments manufacturer would put as much effort into winning WSBK as they put into winning MotoGP. Money, people, technology and wages for top riders.

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It's all in his head. He's lost it. Dropped the ball.
This is also my opinion. He had 3 big blows in the last 2 years.
- Yamaha chose Lorenzo over him.
- He realized just how good Stoner is on a bike.
- Fans, Ducati and the media have put a lot of pressure on him.

If you look back into his career there was never really much pressure on him to perform. Except one time. And he cracked under pressure back then, too. I am talking about dropping the bike and losing the title to Hayden.

I don't think a broken leg and a busted shoulder scared him. Remember his last races with Yamaha. But at that time all he wanted was to do was give Lorenzo and Yamaha a taste of things to come. Stoner was still an inferior rider and the Ducati was just a misunderstood bike that would need just an oil change and a tune-up to perform.

They were on top of their game but arrogance caught up with all of them. JB, Rossi and his entourage.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:39 AM   #66
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Sheesh!

You folks are worse than Red Sox fans!

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Old 04-10-2012, 05:22 AM   #67
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It's all in his head. He's lost it. Dropped the ball.
Yep. Total bummer. It's amazing how accurate the first post in this thread was. Really nailed it, and a long time ago.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:29 AM   #68
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If you are talking blows he has taken last year then add Sepang to the list.

Too soon to right him off. (my opinion).

Get a beer company or energy drink company behind him, a one man team, if they can lease a honda or yamaha he might be up there in the top 3. (No pressure).
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:13 AM   #69
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Sheesh!

You folks are worse than Red Sox fans!

Maybe but Rossi's no Bill Buckner
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:32 AM   #70
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Rossi pushed on the Yamaha because he had a competitive package underneath him.
He broke his leg and fought tooth and nail to return to the track early...because he had a competitive package underneath him.
The Ducati, unless you are willing to ride it at 11/10ths is NOT a competitive package. Stoner made it competitive because is is one hell of a rider and pushed that bike 11/10ths EVERY race he won.

Bear in mind that I am a Ducati fan boy. I love Rossi as well. But I really REALLY wish he was on the Yamaha or the Honda.
He is past his prime but definitely hasn't "lost it".

Consider it from his POV...2 years ago you crashed and destroyed your leg on a bike that could put him on the podium week in and week out by simply riding it well.
And now he is on a bike that could put him on the podium IF he pushed it beyond his comfort limits but could also punt you into the stratosphere in the same instant. You have 9 world championships. You could possibly have a contract with another team or even sport your own satellite team in 2013 on. Do you push hard knowing that the bike is going to take a complete overhaul to be competitive or do you tell Ducati to get you through the season without breaking you in half and take the brunt of the Italian press' animosity so that Ducati won't be avoided like the plague?

I don't know the man but if I were in his shoes, I would be looking forward to a contract with Gresini or even Tech 3 on a satellite badged factory bike. Or even moving to WSBK.

Fact is, MotoGP has lost its allure. All they really did was take a handful of back-marker Suzuki and Ducatis and added an even slower piece to the puzzle.

All I know is the GOAT hasn't lost his mojo. He is protecting himself from getting kicked in the mojo. Ducati either needs to step up their game and present him with a package that can win (Even Hayden who did exceptionally well isn't capable of winning on the Ducati in the dry) or let him go on to a team that can.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:23 PM   #71
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Great Reading Here...

..... but what I find most interesting about the Rossi Ducati Italian tragedy is Ducati reluctance to give up on the lagacy of the 90 degree motor or in not using the Cobas twin spar frame earlier. Sort of like Porsche and the 911 but here the legacy works.

I liked grand prix racing where different design compted 4 stroke two stroke diffrent motor designs Ossa alumninum frame from the '60's ? ELF ?

Now it is a kit of parts Ohlins, Bridgestones, Brembo, all developed to work with the Delatbox frame not a carbon fibre box.
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:28 PM   #72
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Isn't/wasn't there also a lot of issues with one of the owners/managers being really stubborn about how the bike should be setup, basically not listening to the riders and just doing it his way? Think I heard that somewhere.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:47 PM   #73
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My take on everything (for what it's worth), is the difference is in engineering. Furusawa is an aeronautic engineer, and understands multi axis dymanics and the relationship between them all- he also listened to Valentino and Jeremy, and was able to make the data, and the human feedback work together to create a solution. Maybe Ducati engineering is stuck trying to make things work. From where I sit, I would say engine configuration, the balance point on the bike is not where it needs to be, and a 90 degree V may not allow the engine to sit at the optimum place without affecting rake, or swingarm length. Not sure what Suzuki was running, but Aprillia uses 60, and the rest are in line, which allows more fore/aft engine movement...

My memories of Ducatis are Loris Capriossi looking like a monkey strapped to a runaway rocket- the Duc would pump on traction control, and Casey Stoner hanging off Doohan style- with the bike is moving around like crazy underneath him. Rossi is a more controlled rider (for lack of a better term). I've read several comments that other riders don't understand Casey's lines....
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:33 PM   #74
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Very Special

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
SNIP Stoner made it competitive because is is one hell of a rider and pushed that bike 11/10ths EVERY race he won. SNIP
Directly from persons knowing, according to the data reviewed of Casey riding the Duc, it said he crashed 3 times every lap. That is how OVER the limit he was to get results from the machine.

What everyone struggles with is the ability of Casey to take a Moto from a data crashed state to recovery consistently multiple times per lap. This is not a good way to be riding a motorcycle. This is why Rossi has always calmly said "Casey rides the Ducati in a very special way"

Very special, to save a front end the precise amount of throttle is needed to balance the rear slip and drive and again the data shows that Casey is the ONLY one who is capable of opening the throttle to the EXACT point every time to enable this save to take place. Exactly (nearly) every time!

Others 'feather' the throttle in hope of saving the front but are always too slow too fast or too late, in Casey's case he turns the throttle to EXACLTY the precise point instantly to make a save. How does did he do it?


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Old 04-10-2012, 05:55 PM   #75
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Directly from persons knowing, according to the data reviewed of Casey riding the Duc, it said he crashed 3 times every lap. That is how OVER the limit he was to get results from the machine.
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