Another alternator hits the dust and not under warranty - Page 21

JRWooden · 04-08-2012, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebrabaek

... So It will be another week before I get to it......

Erling

We will be waiting

Gangplank · 04-08-2012, 09:29 AM

BTW this company sells R/R's for many different bikes including some BMW's. I don't see one for the F800 series. Anyone know if the connections are the same or perhaps they will make one for the bike with the right specs needed and an OEM connector.

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/BMW-45

They also sell stators for the BMW F800S and ST. Is that the same part?
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/BMW-69

JRWooden · 04-09-2012, 06:59 AM

I asked this question a few pages back...
I don't think the F800S and F800ST are seeing 50% failure rates by 50K miles are they....???

WTF are we doing wrong?

I am in contact with the sales manager at Electrosport, they intend to get an OEM stator and analyze it ...
I have passed on Joel's thermocouple readings, and will post back here with any discoveries by Electrosport.
I don't know what their timetable is for the project yet,
but told them to hurry based on the 50% failure rate @ 50K miles

Indy Unlimited · 04-09-2012, 09:48 AM

I suspect the average speed is higher and more air cooling may help them since we go off road and slower.

Gangplank · 04-09-2012, 10:06 AM

To the knowledgeable parties here:
What inforamtion can you give me re: an upgraded RR? I am happy to contact these people to ask about an upgraded unit with OEM style connections. They alraedy make them for the S and ST.

What would the ideal RR be for our bikes. What is needed?
Thanks in advance...

looking at MOSFET
50 amp capacity
What else is needed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gangplank

BTW this company sells R/R's for many different bikes including some BMW's. I don't see one for the F800 series. Anyone know if the connections are the same or perhaps they will make one for the bike with the right specs needed and an OEM connector.

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/BMW-45

They also sell stators for the BMW F800S and ST. Is that the same part?
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/BMW-69

JRWooden · 04-09-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited

I suspect the average speed is higher and more air cooling may help them since we go off road and slower.

Maybe the combination of lower average speed and bash plates blocking air flow explains it ...

Joel: When you took thermocouple measurements did you do any runs down the road or were the tests "driveway" based?

GP:
Erling has one of the MOSFET regulators on order .... now that I think about it ...
Erling: Do you have a thermocouple for before and after testing?

In other news, I got a reply back from ElectroSport today regrading a redesigned stator:

"Thanks for the info Jim. We're going to take a look into the bmw stators in the near future. When we move further forward with production and have sample or final parts I'll let you know. Thanks again for the info!"

Gangplank · 04-09-2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRWooden

GP:
Erling has one of the MOSFET regulators on order .... now that I think about it ...
Erling: Do you have a thermocouple for before and after testing?

In other news, I got a reply back from ElectroSport today regrading a redesigned stator:

"Thanks for the info Jim. We're going to take a look into the bmw stators in the near future. When we move further forward with production and have sample or final parts I'll let you know. Thanks again for the info!"

Ok, that's fine. I was going to check with Regulatorrectifier.com as well. They are in CA and make RRs for motorcycles and ATV's. They also have stators so a good source for one stop shopping. They can make things to spec size and requirements. They also already have the BMW plug and play versions for other bikes. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Thiers is MOSFET with a 50 AMP capacity. Runs cooler.

What I was looking to find out is if there are other requirements to make them aware of. All they said they need are the size and shape and they can make one that will work and run cooler.

It seems to me that cooler is good but the right draw or capacity is more important if we are looking to cool the stator.

JRWooden · 04-09-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Ok, that's fine. I was going to check with Regulatorrectifier.com as well. They are in CA and make RRs for motorcycles and ATV's. They also have stators so a good source for one stop shopping. They can make things to spec size and requirements. They also already have the BMW plug and play versions for other bikes. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Thiers is MOSFET with a 50 AMP capacity. Runs cooler.

What I was looking to find out is if there are other requirements to make them aware of. All they said they need are the size and shape and they can make one that will work and run cooler.

It seems to me that cooler is good but the right draw or capacity is more important if we are looking to cool the stator.

I'm not smart enough to give them the specs, I can tell you that .........
I have an EE buddy that's going to compare and contrast the MOSFET design to the OEM Shunt design later this week. If he gets it thru my fat skull I'll post what I have learned ...

Gangplank · 04-09-2012, 05:50 PM

From what I am reading and (sort of) learning....

MOSFET
Series type
50 AMP capacity (but the actual output capacity will be determined by the stator on our bike)
Sized to fit the stock location

BMW wiring harness or wire it direct by splicing in and wiring 10 guage to the battery?

ebrabaek · 04-09-2012, 06:57 PM

JR.... When I get to it next week... I will do a complete write up... With readings before and after the install. It will mimick my typical CF threads so as to aid and inform all who want to do this mod. My main goal is to raise the charging voltage to 14.3 plus..... Side benefit.... stator runs cooler , and lasts longer.

Erling

MTrider16 · 04-09-2012, 07:03 PM

Erling, are you planning on having stator temps also? David

ebrabaek · 04-09-2012, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTrider16

Erling, are you planning on having stator temps also? David

I don't have the tools, beside a infrared thermometer, but as Joel said....and I agree with the IR tool don't read good on the alloy of the casing. I can shoot it before and after.... but it would be an inconclusive test.

Erling

vtbob · 04-09-2012, 08:25 PM

Re Mosfet comment FWIW...a bit out of context because so little is known about the stock components and circuits.

I have no specs/on the semiconductor devices in the stock regulator. They may also be mosfet. Do we know?

As a general statement, Mosfet typically have less forward drop vs corresponding other semiconductors. Mosfets also are typically more fragile, as they are often just many parallel mosfet devices on a single die...ie the weakest link syndrome.
Less forward drop also means the RR runs cooler...but RR overheating does not seem to be the problem.

Lower forward drop also means more current thru the stator, more current shunting to ground. Loading the stator more. Seems a worse than stock case on first blush.

If this new vendor knows how to make the stator more robust, more heat resistant, that would be a real plus. While keeping the 400W output.

There may be some who would want a lower output stator...say 300 W if that would improve reliability. survive the F800 engine invironment.

JRWooden · 04-10-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtbob

... There may be some who would want a lower output stator...say 300 W if that would improve reliability. survive the F800 engine invironment.

Even in cold weather riding, since I don't have many power-sucking farkles,I do not require the total 400W of output. If we don't find a better solution (and we might ... I'm still hopeful) I'll likely add a set of current-limiting resistors to my stator leads.

Honestly, I don't know what BMW was thinking (or not thinking) here ...

MTrider16 · 04-11-2012, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebrabaek

I don't have the tools, beside a infrared thermometer, but as Joel said....and I agree with the IR tool don't read good on the alloy of the casing. I can shoot it before and after.... but it would be an inconclusive test.

Erling

I agree also, but there are some things to make it more reliable. Black electric tape will always have the same emissivity. If the case is clean, apply a strip or two, then always point the IR gun at it using the same angle and distance for every measurement. You can usually wipe the electric tape clean with a dry rag. Also since you are using the same gun, the same case cover and the same operator (you

) you get rid of some of the variables. Then you only use the temperatures in a relative comparison.

If you tell me your case is 97 degrees and I compare it to mine which I see at 82 degrees, the measurements mean nothing. But if you take the measurements before and after on your bike and see a difference of 15 degrees, that would have more meaning.

You could also use your wife's meat thermometer as a contact probe. Just don't blame me if the fallout is less than pleasent.

Just a thought.
David

04-08-2012, 09:29 AM	#302
Gangplank Advenchaintourer Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Reno/Tahoe NV 89509 Oddometer: 1,989	BTW this company sells R/R's for many different bikes including some BMW's. I don't see one for the F800 series. Anyone know if the connections are the same or perhaps they will make one for the bike with the right specs needed and an OEM connector. http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/BMW-45 They also sell stators for the BMW F800S and ST. Is that the same part? http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/BMW-69 __________________ Shiver'd Fork Conversion Elka Suspension Group Buy Precision Trackdays Reno NV

04-09-2012, 09:48 AM	#304
Indy Unlimited Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Parker, CO Oddometer: 1,120	I suspect the average speed is higher and more air cooling may help them since we go off road and slower. __________________ Current Stable: 2013 Ducati Hypermotard SP, 2011 Husaberg FE570S, 2011 BMW S1000RR, 2010 BMW F800GS 2007 Husqvarna TE610 , 2003 KTM 525 MXC

04-09-2012, 05:50 PM	#309
Gangplank Advenchaintourer Joined: Jul 2003 Location: Reno/Tahoe NV 89509 Oddometer: 1,989	From what I am reading and (sort of) learning.... MOSFET Series type 50 AMP capacity (but the actual output capacity will be determined by the stator on our bike) Sized to fit the stock location BMW wiring harness or wire it direct by splicing in and wiring 10 guage to the battery? __________________ Shiver'd Fork Conversion Elka Suspension Group Buy Precision Trackdays Reno NV

04-09-2012, 07:03 PM	#311
MTrider16 Ridin' in MT Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Eastern Montana Oddometer: 977	Erling, are you planning on having stator temps also? David __________________ '07 VFR800, '09 F800GS, 07 CRF250X Riding roads in Montana - Big Sky Country www.mtrider16.smugmug.com Alaska Trip Report

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04-09-2012, 06:59 AM	#303
JRWooden Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2008 Location: The great state of confusion Oddometer: 3,430	I asked this question a few pages back... I don't think the F800S and F800ST are seeing 50% failure rates by 50K miles are they....??? WTF are we doing wrong? I am in contact with the sales manager at Electrosport, they intend to get an OEM stator and analyze it ... I have passed on Joel's thermocouple readings, and will post back here with any discoveries by Electrosport. I don't know what their timetable is for the project yet, but told them to hurry based on the 50% failure rate @ 50K miles

04-09-2012, 06:57 PM	#310
ebrabaek Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2010 Location: El Paso,NM Oddometer: 2,754	JR.... When I get to it next week... I will do a complete write up... With readings before and after the install. It will mimick my typical CF threads so as to aid and inform all who want to do this mod. My main goal is to raise the charging voltage to 14.3 plus..... Side benefit.... stator runs cooler , and lasts longer. Erling

04-09-2012, 08:25 PM	#313
vtbob wanderer Joined: Jun 2009 Location: Western Vermont Oddometer: 417	Re Mosfet comment FWIW...a bit out of context because so little is known about the stock components and circuits. I have no specs/on the semiconductor devices in the stock regulator. They may also be mosfet. Do we know? As a general statement, Mosfet typically have less forward drop vs corresponding other semiconductors. Mosfets also are typically more fragile, as they are often just many parallel mosfet devices on a single die...ie the weakest link syndrome. Less forward drop also means the RR runs cooler...but RR overheating does not seem to be the problem. Lower forward drop also means more current thru the stator, more current shunting to ground. Loading the stator more. Seems a worse than stock case on first blush. If this new vendor knows how to make the stator more robust, more heat resistant, that would be a real plus. While keeping the 400W output. There may be some who would want a lower output stator...say 300 W if that would improve reliability. survive the F800 engine invironment.