Is Mexico Safe?

[SoosCreek]

Been following this thread for a long time. Thought you might want to have this information. This has been copied from our Ride Report located here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780208

[SoosCreek]We went out about 5 p.m. along the La Paz Malecon to the Bismark Restaurant for dinner. It was about an 8 block walk from the hotel and was recommended. Dinner was good and the margaritas were both tasty and very strong. After dinner we started our walk back to the hotel and were doing some sightseeing, etc. Stopped at another bar for another drink, talked to some street vendors, etc.

Around 9 or 10 we were within a block of our hotel and Matt decided he wanted to go back and look at some necklaces again by a street vendor. Zack and I continued up the street and back to the hotel. It was only 9 or 10 p.m.

The following is based on information told to me by Matt (Fosdick) the morning of April 11th and has been provided with his permission:

Matt was walking back to the vendor when he was motioned over to the street curb by a female Policia. She asked him some questions and for some reason got on her radio to call other Policia. 3-4 of them showed up in a Policia truck vehicle, had him put his hands on the truck, asked more questions, decided to handcuff him and then put him in the truck.

They drove out of town a mile or two into the desert and started interrogating him and going thru his wallet, cell phone, hotel key and anything else in his pockets. All of this in Spanish of course and Matt did not know what were asking. They took all of his money, gave him back his wallet and his cell phone. He had a numeric password lock on his cell phone so they could not get into it and decided it was useless to them. He is handcuffed in the truck the whole time.

They then proceeded to take him back into town and drop him off somewhere in the city. He did not know where he was or have any money. He eventually finds a Taxi, has the driver take him to the Hotel. He then tries to wake either me or Zack to get some money for the Taxi. We are sound asleep and he tries to tell the Taxi driver that he will pay him tomorrow. The Taxi guy just leaves. Matt unlocks the gate and get into his room.

In the morning when I show up for breakfast Matt is there and visibly shaken. He tells me this story and is concerned that they know where we are staying since the room key had the hotel name on it. He is unsure if there is anything he should do or if it should be reported. He decides not to do anything and goes back to his room to get more sleep as he has been running on Adrenalin all night…

Yes, we had been drinking after a long riding day, but it was only 9 or 10, we were only a block or maybe 2 from the hotel on a well lighted main boulevard. Yes, we had seen both La Paz Policia and Tourista Policia around town all day and assumed things were safe. There were other Snow Birds and tourists around town.

And that's the story told to me by Matt the morning after. So be safe, never split up and don't trust anyone.

[SchizzMan]

Thanks for sharing that with us. Well told account followed up with solid advice.

One question: was Matt, by chance, carrying a beer or other alcoholic beverage when he was picked up? Just wondering what pretext the police may have used to rip him off. That's usually how it goes down there.

[SoosCreek]

Nope, nothing in hand. We we feeling pretty good so I think they just decided to take advantage when we split up. We should never have split up, even if only 1 block from the hotel with the police standing right there!

[MikeMike]

Ever thought about reporting it to the Mexican military or the state police?
Have you considered reporting it at all to the Mexican federal government?

[alpiner84]

Originally Posted by SoosCreek

And that's the story told to me by Matt the morning after. So be safe, never split up and don't trust anyone.

So sorry to hear that happened to you, and glad he walked away safe. Hope you had other more positive experiences with trust on your trip.

[MikeMike]

Here's something that might help out some people. A long time ago, I had a friend who worked for the PGR (he was my old get out of jail free card) and another who worked for the PJF (another trump card). They discussed my rights in Mexico and how they are no different from any other person's, however, both expressed that most Mexicans have no idea of their basic rights, let alone that foreigners would have any idea whatsoever. The guy from the PGR had made up a nice little wallet sized card that explains your rights in Mexico very clearly (in Spanish of course, so get out the dictionary).
I have scanned my old card, it never leaves me and I carry it with me wherever I am outside my home. It is an "attitude changer" when you know your rights so the time spent understanding this is worthwhile.
The numbers might not be current, I can try and update those if you want.
A laminated copy of this will not only help you make your point, it will also help you understand more about how things operate here and how different the entire jurisprudence system is from what you might be accustomed to. If you want to have some fun, ask a Mexican if they know their rights and then show them this.

Side one for if you are detained


Side 2 - Pay attention to the first point


Yes, local authorities will constantly abuse these rights, but unless a formal denuncio (accusation) is made, they will continue to do this. Not one local cop wants to be investigated by the PGR or any other federal entity in Mexico, they become very uncomfortable when faced with this. At the very least, the guy who was jacked should have begun a formal complaint via the mayor's office immediately when this happened and then begun working up the ladder from there.

Of course, many people will laugh at this and tell me I am peeing against the wind, but I have lived through enough here to have learned that the system does work, it is very slow, but you will get some measure of satisfaction if you make enough noise for long enough. Most people don't have the patience to do this, but I encourage you to do this and if I can help, I will be most glad to. I abhor corruption, I won't pay because, living here, I would be broke and simply be an easy gringo target for every cop and other corrupt official. Don't be afraid to get "encabronado" over what happened, you have every right to be.

[WeazyBuddha]

Originally Posted by MikeMike

Ever thought about reporting it to the Mexican military or the state police?
Have you considered reporting it at all to the Mexican federal government?

+1

Link to the "quejas y denuncias" site, it seems you can simply submit an email.

Does he have a plate number on the police truck? That or any other identifiers would be helpful I'm sure.

Two things made my dad move the family to the U.S. when I was 2 1/2, lack of opportunity and corruption. He was a delegado for the local area and he just couldn't stomach the corruption. He, btw, was a u.s. citizen and so was my mom but the kids, we were all born in Mexico.

Things are changing, it may not look that way at times but they are. I sense an increasing intolerence for corruption and other nasty things such as littering.

[tricepilot]

Probably a fantasy scenerio since the event is passed, but how nice would it have been to find the lady cop the next day working the beat and snap her photo. Make her and her bosses famous.

Kinda like this:

Mexican Police Soliciting a Bribe on Video

ADV Jo Momma thead on that HERE

And another "make 'em famous" ploy that ran in this thread:

Avoid This Guy at the El Salvador-Honduras Border!

Too late for this case and her being a cop would make taking her photo all the more problematic, but I still like the idea of getting these crooks on the net and making them famous. If possible.

[SoosCreek]

Thanks for the input from the guys who know the game.

I asked if he wanted to report it. He said no, that it would be a he said/she said scenario.

Matt, Zack and I were strangers before this trip. We had a whole 4 days of riding together so I was not comfortable pushing him or advising him on what he should or should not do. And he was kind of in a state of shock about the whole thing.

I considered writing this up to you guys in this thread the day I found out, but again it was not my experience and Matt just appeared to want it to go away and get back to normal.

In hindsight I think I should have sought you all's counsel and recommendations right then and there and we could have at least done something. I am not sure what he will do when he gets back. He might be in San Diego by now. I will be following up and would like to think we could report it to someone.

I like TricePilots ideas of a photo shoot and publication as a warning. I have seen the photos of the border helpers to stay away from...

The rest of trip went without out any security problems. There were federal and local Policia everywhere. They just waved us through checkpoints everywhere. People were wonderful Food was usually great.

Copper Canyon a must for anyone, even if you don't do dirt. The road from Urique to Batopilas on a 1200GS was amazing, pretty hard, and scary. I am going to start writing that portion of the trip next.

[mark883]

I don't know if he would need to make the report from within Mexico or not.

If it could be done over the net, he may want to consider it.

I would think the big authorities take particular notice of such things happening to tourists.

This guy should consider helping other travelers to avoid a similar situation, by helping remove the situation.

There is the simple roll-your-eyes mordida, then there is kidnapping. This was not a mordida.

Let him take advise from guys like MikeMike and SR, who live and work in Mexico.

[tricepilot]

I was able to connect with special international law enforcement authorities and obtain a photo of the offender:

[Sjoerd Bakker]

There are a number of roads shown in Guia Roji through the mountain region and if you were in Huejuquilla you were at least in a town on the route that I took.
My ride started from Fresnillo where the hotel clerk asked if I was taking the direct route to Tepic. Well, no I had no plan like that(nor ANY plan) and did not know one existed. So I asked for more details and he explained that there was a good road across the sierras"directly" to Tepic. Well alright ! that was the route for me ,something new to explore.
As he described it it was good, paved and only a short bit of gravel and I should be in Tepic in 8 hours of riding.Heard that sort of estimate before!
So I asked around some more.
To make a short story, I wound up going soutthwest from Fresnillo on Mex 44 ,no haste slow ,side trips into farming sideroads and villages , spent the night in Valparaiso. Next morning left Valparaiso carried on to Huejuquilla el Alto, from there followed the state highway soutwest into the altiplano-canyons-mesas wiiiiiide valleys-eroded scarps-plates -mountains to SanJuan Capistrano and Canoas where the road turned more southerly running along the top of one of the huge mesa ridges WOW scenery all the time..
Then came the gravel section, only about 22km long and quite good road , only a few rough rutted spots.Nothing at all as bad as the road west from Chinipas!- I could do it in the Focus without damage. Of course this was the remaining steepest bit of road farthest from either end climbing with many twists and turns and which still needs to be reconstructed and that work is going on as we speak progressing from the south end.
Spent a night in Jesus Maria NAY, in Hotel el Buen Pastor ( the founders folks had too much religion on the brain) the Friday before they were having a big doo with Nayars showing up in costume.
From JM it was again up into spectacular mesa and canyons country to Mesa de Nayar and then came the front range of the mountains view across everything to the coast , descent to tropical climate and Estacion Ruiz ,east of Mex 15. This was still about 30km north of Tepic close enough
.But WOW and double WOW a great road.
Beside Fresnillo and Valparaiso Hotels are found also in Huejuquilla, San Juan Capistrano, and eco-cabins at Canoas. and in Estacion Ruiz , so there is no need to panic as long as you time it to be in one of these places before sunset.
And anyone who does the trip in 8 hours(if that is possible) is riding way too fast to be enjoying any of the scenert

[mark883]

Geez, trice. Have some common decency, and warn us before you post something like that.

Not your usual Salma, that we've come to expect from you.




Maybe Trice was kidnapped in Honduras (its dangerous) and left his computer logged in............

[SchizzMan]

Originally Posted by tricepilot

I was able to connect with special international law enforcement authorities and obtain a photo of the offender:

I thought Matt said the cop was a woman??

[SchizzMan]

Originally Posted by SoosCreek

Thanks for the input from the guys who know the game.

I asked if he wanted to report it. He said no, that it would be a he said/she said scenario.

Matt, Zack and I were strangers before this trip. We had a whole 4 days of riding together so I was not comfortable pushing him or advising him on what he should or should not do. And he was kind of in a state of shock about the whole thing.

I considered writing this up to you guys in this thread the day I found out, but again it was not my experience and Matt just appeared to want it to go away and get back to normal.

In hindsight I think I should have sought you all's counsel and recommendations right then and there and we could have at least done something. I am not sure what he will do when he gets back. He might be in San Diego by now. I will be following up and would like to think we could report it to someone.

I like TricePilots ideas of a photo shoot and publication as a warning. I have seen the photos of the border helpers to stay away from...

The rest of trip went without out any security problems. There were federal and local Policia everywhere. They just waved us through checkpoints everywhere. People were wonderful Food was usually great.

Copper Canyon a must for anyone, even if you don't do dirt. The road from Urique to Batopilas on a 1200GS was amazing, pretty hard, and scary. I am going to start writing that portion of the trip next.

Matt might consider reporting to the Mexican Consulate there in SD. That might not be a total waste of time. Who knows?

Re: CC, did you take the new road between Urique and Batopilas? Rode it a year ago the week it was completed. Some very deep polvo on one steep section put me down hard. Hopefully it's not so bad now.