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Old 04-14-2012, 04:33 AM   #136
findlj
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I have a friend who is a dealer for both Suzuki and Triumph. I asked him before I bought a new bike last fall. Tiger 800 or Vstrom? His comment...



"Buy the Vstrom if the money is an issue. Otherwise Tiger all the way".
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:53 AM   #137
garandman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
If I remember this right (and I do for other publications), these star ratings are always "relative to price".
That's nonsensical with "value" being one of their criteria, but I sent an email to ask them. If that were the case, for example, the V-Strom Adventure would have lower ratings than the standard V-Strom, since it costs more - in fact within $1000 of the base Tiger 800 non ABS.

Quote:
I’m a subscriber to the magazine and have a question. Are the Star ratings “relative to price” or to some more universal measure?

For example, the DL650A Adventure you just reviewed had five stars for most of the criteria. Is this relative to all bikes, to middleweights, to “Adventure Tourers”, to bikes that cost $8,299, or??
Rider magazine tested the 7-11 V-Strom head-to-head with the Tiger 800. Unsurprisingly, V-Strom owners defend their bikes and Tiger owners theirs.

In my test ride I found the Tiger motor to be smoother than the DL650, and the bike felt quicker. Speaking to the road versions, to my mind the real issue is why spend $12,000 when when a grand or two more will get bike increases in performance: a Ninja 1000 ABS is about $1,000 more and has a relaxed riding position, 130hp and weighs 505 lbs. Ditto a Tiger 1050.

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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
//Impressive upgrade for sure. But I spent half a decade on Vstroms, and my 2nd hand 1050 is a lot of bike for the money. If off road is planned then the Wee or XC are hard to beat. //
Interesting as that bike keeps coming up on my list of "better performance than the middleweights, modest weight, good handling and relaxed riding position" bikes.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:42 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Don T View Post
The two bikes may look somewhat the same, but are very different to ride - take them both for a good test ride, and I'm sure you'll know which one is the best bike for you.
The Suzuki (Kawi, Honda, Yami) dealers here in Central Texas make this pretty easy, they don't allow test rides!

It will always be the Triumphs or BMW's for me based on that simple fact alone.
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:41 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Interesting as that bike keeps coming up on my list of "better performance than the middleweights, modest weight, good handling and relaxed riding position" bikes.
The 1050 is not perfect, and IMO, needs some upgrades. But with suspension improvements, it's quite a GOOD BIKE and very low maintenance as well.

As I said, won't match either V-Strom or Tiger XC off road. But as a sport tourer/pavement based adventure bike, I am very happy with mine. Best news is many are now affordable used and many being sold with lots of farkles on them. The 1050's seem to be holding up very well and not costing owners (in general) a fortune to maintain and very few failures of anything. GOOD JOB TRIUMPH!

It's not a featherweight but rides light and turns so quick and easy. One gripe some have is jerky ON/OFF throttle. There are several solutions for this. Not a big deal.

But the most important draw of the 1050 over either 800 Tiger's or new Wee Strom is the huge power advantage. Not only is the 1050 very quick, it's smooth and has gobs of ripping Triple personality.
And it's even got torque ... something the Tiger 800's lack, IMHO. Combine this with world class radial mount brakes and unmatched lean angles, and the 1050 Tiger makes a pretty good package for the money outlay.
Go ride one. Might surprise a few.

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Old 04-20-2012, 07:19 AM   #140
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I narrowed my choices down to the 1050, 800, or the new glee strom. I had already owned two stroms, a wee and a vee, so I am well familiar with both bikes. My local Triumph dealer gives test rides so I rode both Tiggers. To me the 800 is an absolutely brilliant motorcycle. The 1050 is really nice and I narrowed my choice down to the Triumphs. Nothing against the 'Zuk, but it kind of became a been there, done that type thing, plus I really don't like the styling. Personal preference, but..............

I rode the 1050 and 800XC back to back. To me the 1050 was cruder and less refined. The engine was buzzy with a snachy throttle. Power was neat and nothing to sneeze at, but the tranny was crude and required a sure footed shift with a long throw. The seat sucked and was uncomfortable right away. The wind management gave me buffeting and little protection. The brakes were almost overkill. One finger affairs. I could get used to it, but no knock, just . The 1050 is a really nice motorcycle that to me just needs some sorting, some getting used to, and some break-in time.

The 800 well, what can I say. I loved it. The engine and transmission were butter smooth. Gobs of torque for an 800cc motor. I put it in 6th gear and slowed to under 20 mph then did a roll on. No studder or hesitation, just smooth linear response; the FI is spot on. The brakes were good. Well matched to the bike. Not too much, not too little, just a good balance and feel. The wind management was fair. Lots of wind from the chest up, but it is smooth air with no turbulence. The seat was comfortable, but the bars are a little too far forward for my short arms. The only dislike, is there is a lot of heat coming from the engine that could bug on hot ride days, so we'll see about that. That's because I made my choice.

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Old 06-04-2012, 06:53 PM   #141
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Resurrecting this old thread

I brought this thread back because I finaly got around to riding both the 2012 Wee and the Tiger 800 roadie.

After I rode the Wee, I thought as soon as I get my finances sorted I'm going to buy one. I liked how smooth it cruised at 85 and how easy it got there. I was able to lean it pretty good in the curves. I was annoyed a bit by turbulance but figured I could work that out.

This last weekend, I rode the Tiger 800. Forget about it - it's a better bike for my style of riding. The power and the lighter weight means I can hammer it around the way I want to (I'll be replacing a CBR 600). It has the fun of a sporty bike and the comfort of a mile eater. I just need to come up with the dough.

FWIW, I was also able to ride a Street Triple w/ Arrow pipes and then the new Tiger 1200 Adventurer. The 1200 has a lot of power and feels okay but it's too heavy and wears that weight high - depite the low seat height it's still a little job to get it off the side stand. The Street Triple is awesomely fun but if I had one, I honestly would probably lose my license inside a couple of months - it demands and reward speedy riding.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:11 PM   #142
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I have rode and owned a lot of different bikes and makes. My dad had a SV 650 and that has the Vstrom engine. While a good engine, it runs out of lungs on the top end. Highway its lacking and not a lot of top end. The XC has that triple that just sings at all RPMS and does a wonderful job at everthing. Me personally, around town and highway, im getting 45 to 50 mpg. Excellent ride and motor. Would buy it again.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:05 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
I narrowed my choices down to the 1050, 800, or the new glee strom. I had already owned two stroms, a wee and a vee, so I am well familiar with both bikes. My local Triumph dealer gives test rides so I rode both Tiggers. To me the 800 is an absolutely brilliant motorcycle. The 1050 is really nice and I narrowed my choice down to the Triumphs. Nothing against the 'Zuk, but it kind of became a been there, done that type thing, plus I really don't like the styling. Personal preference, but..............

I rode the 1050 and 800XC back to back. To me the 1050 was cruder and less refined. The engine was buzzy with a snachy throttle. Power was neat and nothing to sneeze at, but the tranny was crude and required a sure footed shift with a long throw. The seat sucked and was uncomfortable right away. The wind management gave me buffeting and little protection. The brakes were almost overkill. One finger affairs. I could get used to it, but no knock, just . The 1050 is a really nice motorcycle that to me just needs some sorting, some getting used to, and some break-in time.//]
I just bought a 1050 (and keeping the DL650).

To me if you were going to have one bike, the Tiger 800 is a good choice. But performance is not much better than the DL650, which gets better mileage and has the usual benefits.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:57 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman View Post
I just bought a 1050 (and keeping the DL650).

To me if you were going to have one bike, the Tiger 800 is a good choice. But performance is not much better than the DL650, which gets better mileage and has the usual benefits.


I strongly beg to differ. I've owned both and the Tiger 800 out performs the wee in every way, with the possible exception of gas mileage. And, the jury is still out on that one because my Tiger is still breaking in, and the gas mileage is still on the rise.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:24 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
I strongly beg to differ. I've owned both and the Tiger 800 out performs the wee in every way, with the possible exception of gas mileage. And, the jury is still out on that one because my Tiger is still breaking in, and the gas mileage is still on the rise.
Let me preface this by saying that "off road" riding has zero weight in my comparisons. I ride some dirt roads and trails but that's it.

Sure the Tiger has better performance. For example, in this test it did the 1/4 mi in 12.72 @ 104mph versus 12.52 @ 101mph for the DL650. Depending on the test it's 0-0.4 seconds faster 0-60. It's undoubtedly better off-road. In this head-to-head comparison the Tiger averaged 38.4 mpg vs. 45.9 mpg for the V-Strom. Every Tiger owner I've spoken with says they get better mileage than that - and so do V-Strom owners. I've averaged just over 50mpg, for example.

Rider mags summary was fair, IMHO:

Quote:
The Triumph Tiger 800 is more exciting, its look, sound and feel stimulating my lizard brain, that primitive nerve center of emotion. The Tiger is also more capable offroad—such an important consideration for me that I’d probably pony up the extra dough for an 800XC. On the other hand, the Suzuki V-Strom 650 ABS is more practical. It’s cheaper, it’ll go farther on a tank of gas, it’s more comfortable for the long-haul with or without a passenger, it’s supported by a larger dealer network and the aftermarket offerings are much broader and deeper.
My V-Strom has an upgraded suspension that is better than the stock bits of the 800 in my opinion.

For me, the Tiger was a little better in some areas at a big price premium. The Tiger 1050 was a lot better than either for a little price premium over the 800 - especially after I found an 08 ABS with 7,000 miles on it.

2012 DL650A - $8,295.
2012 Tiger ABS - $12,000 (as quoted by a dealer)
2011 Tiger 1050 ABS - $13,399.

The 2007 redesign of the Tiger 1050 took it "out of the Adventure Tourer market and place it right in the Tall Comfy Sportbike market...my market" as one scribe wrote. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and a quarter in 11.3s @117mph. It will flat disappear from the middleweights and that's why I bought it.

I like them all, and if I could only have one, the Tiger 800 would probably be my first choice. But I can have more than one....
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:41 AM   #146
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My good friend rides Vstrom. I converted it to spoke wheels for him. I farkled it as he wanted. It is in my garage. I did ride it.
My Suzuki dealer is 2 km from my house. Floor is full of new 650 Vstroms.
I have rode old carbed, new injected and latest Vstrom.
With all my respect - my personal opinion - Vstroms are very capable bikes, but nowhere near Tiger. Obviously I am talkin XC.
Whoever will manage to upgrade Vstrom to same level with 2700 USD difference - I'd like to get tips from that person, because what my friend did so far (have not touched suspension yet) with all my help I can on finding "cheap" solutions already way over 2700. And motor in Strom that are brilliant in SV is tamed in 2012 Strom to boring level. Which I'd never expect from that lump.
Vstrom pre-2012 is much bulkier than Tiger, it has not marginally but way worse suspension, it feels heavier, it handles a bit sluggish, it takes quite some effort to set it up when loaded. It does have excellent seat thou.
2012 Vstrom feels much more compact, they relocated few bits nicely and they tamed motor even more.
Suspension - still totally s..s. Not just damping, but whole package.

Now, real life prices here - new 2012 ABS Vstrom is 7970 Euro. New 2012 Tiger 800XC ABS is 10034. Yes, this is what I paid when I ordered my tiger that I should pick up on Saturday, and I did not discuss anything with dealer. Just got this prices and that's it. That makes 2064 Euro difference. Over here Vstrom not considered Tiger 800 territory by Versys territory. With 1.7 Euro per liter of 95 petrol talking about 2000 Euro difference is kinda...pointless.

Still, I do firmly believe that Vstrom is more reliable in long run. Performance always comes at costs of reliability, so...
But some Tiger owners just amazing nitpickers and complain about things, that no more than usual niggles for first production year as reason to sell their bikes. Personal choice is sacred thing - no discussion there.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:54 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Let me preface this by saying that "off road" riding has zero weight in my comparisons. I ride some dirt roads and trails but that's it.

Sure the Tiger has better performance. For example, in this test it did the 1/4 mi in 12.72 @ 104mph versus 12.52 @ 101mph for the DL650. Depending on the test it's 0-0.4 seconds faster 0-60. It's undoubtedly better off-road. In this head-to-head comparison the Tiger averaged 38.4 mpg vs. 45.9 mpg for the V-Strom. Every Tiger owner I've spoken with says they get better mileage than that - and so do V-Strom owners. I've averaged just over 50mpg, for example.

Rider mags summary was fair, IMHO:



My V-Strom has an upgraded suspension that is better than the stock bits of the 800 in my opinion.

For me, the Tiger was a little better in some areas at a big price premium. The Tiger 1050 was a lot better than either for a little price premium over the 800 - especially after I found an 08 ABS with 7,000 miles on it.

2012 DL650A - $8,295.
2012 Tiger ABS - $12,000 (as quoted by a dealer)
2011 Tiger 1050 ABS - $13,399.

The 2007 redesign of the Tiger 1050 took it "out of the Adventure Tourer market and place it right in the Tall Comfy Sportbike market...my market" as one scribe wrote. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and a quarter in 11.3s @117mph. It will flat disappear from the middleweights and that's why I bought it.

I like them all, and if I could only have one, the Tiger 800 would probably be my first choice. But I can have more than one....
Ahh, some signal in the noise. Thanks for posting this.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:23 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by bluesman View Post
/And motor in Strom that are brilliant in SV is tamed in 2012 Strom to boring level. Which I'd never expect from that lump.

....2012 Vstrom feels much more compact, they relocated few bits nicely and they tamed motor even more.
/
Not my experience, and I've ridden an SV650 an DL650 back to back at track days.


At NJMP, my SV650S hit 113mph actual on the straight versus 108 for the heavier, taller V-Strom so I don't think there's much difference in peak HP. Cornering speeds are surprisingly similar based on my GPS tracker data.

What carbureted V-Strom did you ride? Because they never made any. Pre-2003 SV650's were carbed.

DL650 V-Strom motor was 'tamed" by using the SV650 Gen I cams. If the DL650 motor is tamed, you can say the same thing about my Tiger 1050 and most other "adv" bikes, which are typically tuned to have a flatter torque curve at the expense of peak horsepower. This can actually make bikes faster on the street (and even some tracks) since throttle response is much more manageable.

The 2012 V-Strom uses the Gladius motor. There are relatively small changes, the most major probably being coolant-to-oil cooler instead of an air-to-oil cooler. At a dyno day, my 2008 SV650S put down 65 rwhp. A 2010 Gladius (with an aftermarket slip-on) put down 72. They were both substantially more powerful than any other 650 twins. The '12 is also lighter, so expect it to be quicker.

Motorcycle Consumer News does real motorcyle tests, including putting the bikes on a dyno as well as measuring performance. A '99 SV650 had 65 rwhp and 42.4 ft lbs of torque peak. The 2004 DL650 had 62 rwhp and 42.4 ft lbs of torque - with over 40 ft lb available from 3,500 to 7,500 rpm. Link They knew exactly what they were doing.

Triumph knows what they are doing as well. Just go ride 'em and buy what you like.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:51 PM   #149
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I had a '99 sv650...was my first brand new road bike, loved it, and wish I still had it. Would make an awesome track hack. I have '12 800xc now, and love it. Sold my '11 Speed Triple to get it....miss the speedy already, but am happy with the 800xc. I had a point, but I lost it....
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:57 PM   #150
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Back to Back

I have a 2011 DL-650A and a 2012 Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200. Today was the first time I rode them back to back. I know it is not fair to compare these two bikes...but I will anyway.

I have owned 2 DL-650's and 2 DL-1000's, so I have a deep understanding and appreciation for these bikes. I was seriously considering buying a 2012 DL650, then I test rode the Explorer.

Before I rode the Explorer, I was very happy with my V-Strom. Riding them back to back, the V-Strom feels so underpowered, the brakes feel squishy, the ride is harsh, and just about everything feels cheaper. I will say that the V-Strom did feel like a comfortable pair of shoes, but the Triumph is so much more fun, and does everything better.

I am assuming that some of the same traits of the 1200, are also true of the 800.

With all of this said, I think the V-Strom will continue to get s lot of daily commuting miles. At 50+ mpg and a narrow profile, it will give me lots of low cost commuting miles. But, when the weekend gets here, it is time to Explore
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