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Old 04-24-2012, 10:46 PM   #16
mousitsas
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Originally Posted by Sumi View Post
No, because the cams are not black (or dark grey), like the ones used in the 990s
My (bought from new) SE, has black cams stock.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
My (bought from new) SE, has black cams stock.
But I've never seen a "not black" 990 cam.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:08 AM   #18
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But I've never seen a "not black" 990 cam.
My SE is 950
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
My SE is 950
I understand.. yours is a 950 and it has a black cam.
But I've never seen a "not black" 990 cam. = I've never seen a 990 with a silverish (not a black) cam in it:)
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sumi View Post
I understand.. yours is a 950 and it has a black cam.
But I've never seen a "not black" 990 cam. = I've never seen a 990 with a silverish (not a black) cam in it:)
So, probably the cams in your bike are from an older 950 model. The SE engine shares many internal parts with the 990 engines, the older 950 engines do not!
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:01 AM   #21
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So, probably the cams in your bike are from an older 950 model. The SE engine shares many internal parts with the 990 engines, the older 950 engines do not!
So you think that a new 2011 cam for a 2005 950 Adventure should be black instead of silverish, like the one the dealer sold me last year - as a new (2011 950 ADV) cam?
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:18 AM   #22
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So you think that a new 2011 cam for a 2005 950 Adventure should be black instead of silverish, like the one the dealer sold me last year - as a new (2011 950 ADV) cam?
I am afraid I am not sure on that one, since I do not know if it was 05 or 06 were the 950 cams turned black. I believe that latter applies.
My original comment was directed to what I thought was implied, that only 990 engines have black cams.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:19 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
I am afraid I am not sure on that one, since I do not know if it was 05 or 06 were the 950 cams turned black. I believe that latter applies.
My original comment was directed to what I thought was implied, that only 990 engines have black cams.
The cams on my 06 look just like the ones pictured in the HOW (cpmodems experienced valve tweakers document)
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
I am afraid I am not sure on that one, since I do not know if it was 05 or 06 were the 950 cams turned black. I believe that latter applies.
My original comment was directed to what I thought was implied, that only 990 engines have black cams.
I see:) I wanted to say in that comment (#5) that I think that all 990's have black cams.

So I think these statements are true:

- All 990's have black cams
- Some 950's have black cams
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:26 AM   #25
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The cams on my 06 look just like the ones pictured in the HOW (cpmodems experienced valve tweakers document)
The plot thickens. So, it seems that only SE (maybe 06 SM too) have black cams.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:32 AM   #26
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If I'd go back and take pictures of the cams, could you tell it from the pictures for sure if they are KTM cams, or aftermarket ones?
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:39 AM   #27
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That's why this thread is -> Asking how to set it up without the marks?:)
If you think about the shape of the lobes and what is pressing down on the valve springs on many bikes you only have to be approximate to TDC to get a correct valve adjustment. There is however no approximation when it comes to getting the timing correct. One tooth off is going to make the bike run poorly, much more than this and the piston/valves are going to collide.

Long term, you know what you need to do. Go back to the dealer, with the old cams, verify the timing, find a way to permanently etch marks on the new cams. Even better (I realize you don't want to hassle the dealer) ask them what the cams are. They installed them, what part# did they use? If they are KTM cams for your specific bike see if they are willing to ask KTM why they are unmarked. If they are not KTM cams for your specific bike, well, that wouldn't be good ..... did they only install new cams on the rear cyl?

Anyways, in the short term, it's highly unlikely to be the cams that are causing your hunting. You say it runs well most of the time. If the timing was off on one cylinder it would run poorly all the time. So I'd assume they are correct and look elsewhere to solve that issue.

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Old 04-25-2012, 12:19 PM   #28
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If you think about the shape of the lobes and what is pressing down on the valve springs on many bikes you only have to be approximate to TDC to get a correct valve adjustment. There is however no approximation when it comes to getting the timing correct. One tooth off is going to make the bike run poorly, much more than this and the piston/valves are going to collide.

Long term, you know what you need to do. Go back to the dealer, with the old cams, verify the timing, find a way to permanently etch marks on the new cams. Even better (I realize you don't want to hassle the dealer) ask them what the cams are. They installed them, what part# did they use? If they are KTM cams for your specific bike see if they are willing to ask KTM why they are unmarked. If they are not KTM cams for your specific bike, well, that wouldn't be good ..... did they only install new cams on the rear cyl?

Anyways, in the short term, it's highly unlikely to be the cams that are causing your hunting. You say it runs well most of the time. If the timing was off on one cylinder it would run poorly all the time. So I'd assume they are correct and look elsewhere to solve that issue.
Thank you for your response (it calmed me down a bit as well:))!

Yes, it seems to run fine at everything else but idle - however it is now more noticeably backfiring on decel, but I think thats because of the new airfilter + open akras and stock jetting. It was ever since backfiring also, so I think it's unrelated - unless the cams were always off which I don't think.

I agree with your idea about going back to the dealer also - I just don't want to look like a complete idiot, going there every second day to check the valves (which are probably set correctly). Also I don't want to abuse his kindness (sry for my english if this is not correct, but I hope you understand what I mean), that he is offering me the KTM workshop for use. But I know this will be unavoidable sooner or later. Only the rear cams were changed, yes.. Front cams are still the original ones (and have the marks on both sides, as they should). Whish there was another dealer in my country, but all the other KTM dealers are known to be unreliable.. Well it can be that this one is also.. We will see..

I was thinking about pulling it apart, and comparing the old cams with the new ones side by side.. But I don't have the tools (shims, locking tool, plug wrench, 14mm allen head to say the least) - which I think I would have to buy to do it properly.

Thank you once again for your reply!
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:32 PM   #29
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Yes, it seems to run fine at everything else but idle - however it is now more noticeably backfiring on decel, but I think thats because of the new airfilter + open akras and stock jetting. It was ever since backfiring also, so I think it's unrelated - unless the cams were always off which I don't think.
Earlier you said: Yesterday I've done a valve check, and noticed that there are no "X" or "+" marks on the rear cylinder cams.. So I've turned the engine to TDC, locked it with the locking tool, and measured the clearances that way (so I've assumed that the dealer who fited the cams previously set the cams correctly) + marked the teeth with a marker pen

From above I assume the valves were in spec so you didn't remove the bridges. Is this correct? If it is and since it was running well before this, it's hard to see that this is the cause of your changed running. This hunting problem has only started since you made your changes, correct?

I feel for you. I did a bunch of mods on my bike all at the same and now it has a pronounced vibration. As you say, it's hard to get all the parts (tank, airbox, etc) off the bike so the temptation is to make several changes at one time once you are inside but it's always better (with hindsight) to make just one change at a time followed by decent length testride to evaluate it.

On plus side, you are learning lots about your bike

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Also I don't want to abuse his kindness (sry for my english if this is not correct, but I hope you understand what I mean), that he is offering me the KTM workshop for use.
You make perfect sense and your English is good. Also your sentiment is good. Having a dealer willing to let you do your own work at their location and lend you tools is very generous and you do not want to abuse it.

However, in the end, you need to be able to adjust valves yourself at home and not having the cams marked correctly is an issue. I would expect they would be willing to help you.

As you said, discuss this with them in a while when you next go back.

Backfiring on decel is almost certainly jetting related. In regards to the hunting I would check that you installed the carbs back onto the manifold correctly (the boots). Also look for kinks in the vent hoses from the gas tanks.

To debug you could revert your pipe and airfilter changes (go back to stock). Sounds like jetting is unchanged.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #30
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From above I assume the valves were in spec so you didn't remove the bridges. Is this correct? If it is and since it was running well before this, it's hard to see that this is the cause of your changed running. This hunting problem has only started since you made your changes, correct?
The hunting and occasional shutoff at idle is present on the bike since the first day I've bought it - 10k miles and 2 years ago - it's just me who is getting used to the bike plus reading this forum a lot and started to think about something isn't OK with it and to investigate the case.

I've removed the bridges to inspect the cam bearings - as that is why the (rear) cams and head were changed last year (scorings on them), and I wanted to be sure that it wasn't an oil starvation issue - good news is that both front and rear cams, heads, bridges look OK.
Also I've changed the two shims for one size bigger on the rear exhaust. Left was 2.85, went to 2.9 and right was 2.8 and I've put the 2.85 that came out from the other side to make it 2.85. So they were a bit loose. But the other 6 valves were in spec. But I'm sure I've put back the cams as they've came out - I've marked the teeth on them that line up with the head before pulling them.

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You make perfect sense and your English is good. Also your sentiment is good.
Thanks:) I'm trying my best:)

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Backfiring on decel is almost certainly jetting related. In regards to the hunting I would check that you installed the carbs back onto the manifold correctly (the boots). Also look for kinks in the vent hoses from the gas tanks.
The dealer or I have pulled / reinstalled the carbs more than I can count it on my hands in the past 1 year.. And it has always been backfiring and hunting. Also the vents, vacuum hoses were checked countless times without finding a problem with them. I also went through the carbs, cleaned them, inspected the jets, reset the floats.. tried different IMS positions.. Without solving the issue. First I thought it is because of the SAS, so I removed it a month ago or so, but that wasn't the source - However I didn't put any sealant under the blockoff plates, but left the sas valves in place to act as gaskets.. The only thing I didn't check are the "ACV" - air cutoff valves on the carbs.

Quote:
To debug you could revert your pipe and airfilter changes (go back to stock). Sounds like jetting is unchanged.
Jetting is unchanged, it's stock - when I was in the carbs a couple of weeks ago I've inspected all of the jets to be sure that they are stock.. The airfilter is just a new, but stock airfilter. I don't have the old - dirty - one. It was backfiring with the stock exhaust as well, yet not this noticeably - which I think is because of it's more restricting manner..
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