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Old 04-28-2012, 08:24 PM   #2701
fxstbiluigi
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Originally Posted by GodOmelet View Post
Well I don't know how to respond to that except to say that the guy I found was the only person in the area who would even take the job, so I wasn't in much position to dictate prices (nor do I know enough about welding aluminum to dictate method). I'm glad he took the time to do it carefully and ultimately the piece is likely better than it was prior to the break. I told him up front that I would dress the weld and make it pretty/fit the bolt, and he took it upon himself to make the jig. Unfortunately that part took an hour, but I probably would have messed it up had he not done it for me. I don't even have a drill press.

He's not a motorcyclist, so I'm glad that he took very seriously the fact that our lives literally depend on our machines not failing us at critical times. I know I do. To me it's worth it to know he didn't just slap on some metal haphazardly. I know it's not just one or the other, but who would know if you didn't have someone like him who was willing to let me see what he was doing, and doing it carefully? Everything I've read about welding cast aluminum is that it's always a risky enterprise, and particularly so when it's a part that experiences constant stress, vibration, temp changes, is soaked in oil, etc., etc. You tell me. Was I taken for a ride?

By the way, when was the last time you performed this exact repair?
I don't feel that you were taken for a ride. I think the repair was made in a very professional manner and although expensive I'm sure it came with a lifetime guarantee that you will never have to test/use. That little piece could have been welded but there would have been two places (inside the hole) that could not have been welded due to physical limitations of the welding equipment, read new crack started in the repair.
What he did was essentially build a new cap for that pin boss in place.
It is refreshing to see that there are still some craftsmen out ther that take pride in making a repair and making it stronger than the original.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:38 PM   #2702
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Originally Posted by Wadester View Post
So - for welding of Aluminum in general: Squarewave 175 - too much, or not enough?
Disclaimer: hobby guy, home garage. I've been happy with my 1993 Syncrowave 250 since I bought it new. I have an aircooled 150amp torch and feel the Squarewave 175 would be more than up to bike frames. If you want to weld heavier 'stuff' or longer welds, a water cooled torch would be nice. This is a bump, looking for a qualified answer.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:23 AM   #2703
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Originally Posted by GodOmelet View Post
Well I don't know how to respond to that except to say that the guy I found was the only person in the area who would even take the job, so I wasn't in much position to dictate prices (nor do I know enough about welding aluminum to dictate method). I'm glad he took the time to do it carefully and ultimately the piece is likely better than it was prior to the break. I told him up front that I would dress the weld and make it pretty/fit the bolt, and he took it upon himself to make the jig. Unfortunately that part took an hour, but I probably would have messed it up had he not done it for me. I don't even have a drill press.

He's not a motorcyclist, so I'm glad that he took very seriously the fact that our lives literally depend on our machines not failing us at critical times. I know I do. To me it's worth it to know he didn't just slap on some metal haphazardly. I know it's not just one or the other, but who would know if you didn't have someone like him who was willing to let me see what he was doing, and doing it carefully? Everything I've read about welding cast aluminum is that it's always a risky enterprise, and particularly so when it's a part that experiences constant stress, vibration, temp changes, is soaked in oil, etc., etc. You tell me. Was I taken for a ride?

By the way, when was the last time you performed this exact repair?

I weld cast aluminum pretty much every day of the week, and would say its probably the easiest non ferrous material to work with. High zinc die castings are much more difficult, but yours looks like a good quality sand casting, that should be easy to repair using 1050 filler.

In your case the part isnt as strong as it was originally as the the repairer has used 4043 filler, which I doubt would be comparable to the strength of the material the casting was made from? In the case of any repair which is safety critical, there is a need to find out exact spec of material to be repaired, and select the best possible filler material to use. In the case of casting repairs where the material spec is unknown, then 4043 is a good choice, but I would never use it to build a part up, as the melt temperature is in most cases going to be lower than the base material, which will introduce a weak spot in the repaired part.

If there was no one else willing to do the work for you, then I guess you had no choice but getting ripped off by the guy that did a substandard job for you!
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:30 AM   #2704
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To the fella that asked about the square wave 175, yes it will do the job just fine.

Water cooled torch to fix a bicycle not needed, BUT a water cooled torch is the balls if you are doing much welding at all. I can run one stick of filler before an air cooled torch gets too hot to hang on to. That is for aluminum or steel. It depends on how much welding is needed, nothing more. Yesterdy I spent 3.5 hours welding on an aluminum snowmobile trailer. It would have taken 3 days with an air cooled torch.

For the R100 repair, its done and over with and paid for, Go ride!

Did you get ripped off? I don't think so.

Did the guy take a simple job and make it a blow job? I dunno. I have no problem with the way it was done. The bigger question is why or how did it break?

It would have been nice to know the exact content of the casting. My dad says cast aluminum is like cake batter, you never know what is exactly in it. 4043 is a fix all. 5356 is alloyed and stronger. It has an upper temp limit and its not very high.

Most people want me to make a repair like that in place. I just say no.

Good stuff on a motorcycle forum. Pleasant polite posters.

David
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:36 AM   #2705
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
I weld cast aluminum pretty much every day of the week, and would say its probably the easiest non ferrous material to work with. High zinc die castings are much more difficult, but yours looks like a good quality sand casting, that should be easy to repair using 1050 filler.

In your case the part isnt as strong as it was originally as the the repairer has used 4043 filler, which I doubt would be comparable to the strength of the material the casting was made from? In the case of any repair which is safety critical, there is a need to find out exact spec of material to be repaired, and select the best possible filler material to use. In the case of casting repairs where the material spec is unknown, then 4043 is a good choice, but I would never use it to build a part up, as the melt temperature is in most cases going to be lower than the base material, which will introduce a weak spot in the repaired part.

If there was no one else willing to do the work for you, then I guess you had no choice but getting ripped off by the guy that did a substandard job for you!
So glad you waited until AFTER I got "ripped off" to tell me all this. Thanks a million.
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:00 AM   #2706
David R
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You folks have me curious.

I looked up 4043 and 5356 for my own information. As I remember 5356 has a max working temp of like 150*f or something. I did not find the answer yet, but the melting temp of 4043 and 5356 are exactly the same from ESAB and here is the link. http://esabna.com/us/en/support/down...ml#/112/zoomed 4043 is 2 pages before this one.

It also had some info on the same page about 7005 aluminum. Take a look. Its free.

David

Edit: found it!

************************************************** ************************************************** ******
4043 is suitable for service temperatures above 150 Deg. F, however, 5356, because of its 5% magnesium content is not suitable for these elevated temperature applications.
************************************************** ************************************************** ********

Copied from HERE

http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...ller-alloy.cfm
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:15 AM   #2707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadester View Post
So - for welding of Aluminum in general: Squarewave 175 - too much, or not enough?
[/COLOR]
It really depends on the thickness of the material.

I have a Lincoln Precision TIG 185 which is a step up from your machine and you can quickly run out of headroom on aluminum. I have welded 3/8" aluminum in short sections by preheating the piece.

Welding aluminum is like riding a bike at those killer dunes you see out west. Little dinky 125? You ain't making it. Badass Busa-powered Rhino? Over the top with ease.

If I were to buy again, space not being an issue (it is for me) I would go to a 250A class machine. I do weld 2-3 times a week on my project bikes and for buddies. 50-50 aluminum and steel.

My machine will do steel as thick as I'll ever need easily because the heat from the weld stays locally. The reason Al takes so much power is that it basically uses the heat from starting the weld to conduct heat to the entire piece.

But for thin wall tubing 175A is plenty. What you may find exceptionally useful in thin wall tubing is pulse which may or may not be available on that machine. I don't know exactly the physics behind it so forgive my laymans terms here, but essentially pulsing the arc allows you to put less heat in the weld and surrounding material. Helps to prevent warping in thin material. I use it as well to help "cadence" my weld.

I paid $900 for my machine, used, with a 26 air cooled torch. I also bought a WP9 torch which is much smaller and use that for most smaller work. I do not think a water cooler is necessary for that small a machine, I don't have one, and I don't really miss it. If I were to go to a 250A machine with longer weld times, then yes definitely. My welding times are usually fairly short, under a minute, with occasional longer welds, but those are infrequent.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:04 AM   #2708
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Originally Posted by GodOmelet View Post
So glad you waited until AFTER I got "ripped off" to tell me all this. Thanks a million.
I wouldn't worry to much about it....not to long ago he was here "Asking about making a repair/modification on a GasGas cast swing arm...and after some input from other inmates, came to his own conclusion......as follows.
(Kind of an odd thing since he says "" I Weld Cast Almost EveryDay""...Trolling perhaps???)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
I have someone finding out material spec from Gas Gas factory, and I will be welding on shock mounts so the mono swinging arm can be fitted to twinshock bikes. I guess 4043 is the best possible filler rod, as the cast is likely to have quite a lot of silicone, and have always found using harder filler on things like this very often leads to cracking.
Further since he really does not know what material your casting actually is, He at this point knows LESS than the fine fellow you had repair it.

Your part is fixed, install it and ride.

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Old 04-29-2012, 09:18 AM   #2709
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Originally Posted by NitroAcres View Post
I wouldn't worry to much about it....not to long ago he was here "Asking about making a repair/modification on a GasGas cast swing arm...and after some input from other inmates, came to his own conclusion......as follows.
(Kind of an odd thing since he says "" I Weld Cast Almost EveryDay""...Trolling perhaps???)



Further since he really does not know what material your casting actually is, He at this point knows LESS than the fine fellow you had repair it.

Your part is fixed, install it and ride.


I found it strange that no one on here could help with what filler material to use on an alloy swinging arm, but a contact in the Gas Gas factory eventually advised that the best filler material to use was 1050. Repair of cast alloy wheels is something I have been doing for about 10 years, and generally do these every day.

Like it or not there was no need whatever to mess around making copper parts in order to do a very simple 20 minute repair job on that BMW casting, and its a shame that posters on here who suggest they are expert welders, seem supportive of others getting ripped off.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:11 PM   #2710
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Originally Posted by David R View Post
You folks have me curious.

Edit: found it!

************************************************** ************************************************** ******
4043 is suitable for service temperatures above 150 Deg. F, however, 5356, because of its 5% magnesium content is not suitable for these elevated temperature applications.************************************************** ************************************************** ********

Copied from HERE

http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...ller-alloy.cfmDavid
I knew that 5356 had a low operating temp ceiling <200* But 150* is only 50* hotter than a human. I've seen 136* in the cab of my truck, parked in the sun.
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"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:22 PM   #2711
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Originally Posted by sailah View Post
It really depends on the thickness of the material.

I have a Lincoln Precision TIG 185 which is a step up from your machine and you can quickly run out of headroom on aluminum. I have welded 3/8" aluminum in short sections by preheating the piece.

If I were to buy again, space not being an issue (it is for me) I would go to a 250A class machine. I do weld 2-3 times a week on my project bikes and for buddies. 50-50 aluminum and steel.

My machine will do steel as thick as I'll ever need easily because the heat from the weld stays locally. The reason Al takes so much power is that it basically uses the heat from starting the weld to conduct heat to the entire piece.

But for thin wall tubing 175A is plenty. What you may find exceptionally useful in thin wall tubing is pulse which may or may not be available on that machine. I don't know exactly the physics behind it so forgive my laymans terms here, but essentially pulsing the arc allows you to put less heat in the weld and surrounding material. Helps to prevent warping in thin material. I use it as well to help "cadence" my weld.

I paid $900 for my machine, used, with a 26 air cooled torch. I also bought a WP9 torch which is much smaller and use that for most smaller work. I do not think a water cooler is necessary for that small a machine, I don't have one, and I don't really miss it. If I were to go to a 250A machine with longer weld times, then yes definitely. My welding times are usually fairly short, under a minute, with occasional longer welds, but those are infrequent.
Good info! Thank you. I was actually hoping to hear "nah, you need a cheaper, simpler machine" - but I would hate to shell out for less than I need. Yes, most of my usage would be light gauge stuff and more detailed rather than long duration. Pulse is not available on the 175A machine - have to go higher to get that. So - I need Pulse, high frequency and AC to weld AL. Now it looks like a Precision 225 machine would be it.

APOLOGY: 7075? Not. What I'm trying to work with 7005, which is not the same as far as welding goes, but still a bit tricky. I can claim brain fade, I hope. And sorry to doubt ya'll. Next time I'll try to check my story better before I start.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:08 PM   #2712
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For general use in a shed setting doing hobby work I do not think that the 160 Amps my TIG-welder provides is not enough. I'm not welding aluminium over 4mm thickness anyway. Being able to adjust current while welding would have been nice; i am forced to travel faster when the workpiece heats up.

I am using a watercooled WP20-style torch. Got one off a flea market for little money, and the cooler itself, consisting of a gear pump, small fluid container and small A/C condenser, was easy to integrate into the welder. I don't use the watercooled torch because I am welding so much, I use the watercooled torch because it's head is a LOT smaller than the regular WP17-style aircooled torch which makes it easier to fit it in cramped spaces and the hoses going to the torch are more flexible.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #2713
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I disagree about the rod in the hole. I do it a lot. Building up broken transmission or motor mount bosses from accidents if there are some threads, I put a bolt in it with antiseeze on it. Build up around it. It works. No piece needed. Tap the hole when done. Shape with grinder if necessary. Solid copper rod or carbon rod for the holes with no threads. It beats the heck out of drilling a built up nub. It also keeps alignment.



David
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:44 PM   #2714
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A-Rod-Hole

Quote:
Originally Posted by David R View Post
I disagree about the rod in the hole. I do it a lot. Building up broken transmission or motor mount bosses from accidents if there are some threads, I put a bolt in it with antiseeze on it. Build up around it. It works. No piece needed. Tap the hole when done. Shape with grinder if necessary. Solid copper rod or carbon rod for the holes with no threads. It beats the heck out of drilling a built up nub. It also keeps alignment.



David
Sounds good to me. I appreciate you offering your uplifting counterbalance to Mr. Negativity. Thanks.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:18 PM   #2715
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The Whs and Wherefores

Quote:
Originally Posted by David R View Post

Did the guy take a simple job and make it a blow job? I dunno. I have no problem with the way it was done. The bigger question is why or how did it break?

It would have been nice to know the exact content of the casting. My dad says cast aluminum is like cake batter, you never know what is exactly in it. 4043 is a fix all. 5356 is alloyed and stronger. It has an upper temp limit and its not very high.

Most people want me to make a repair like that in place. I just say no.

Good stuff on a motorcycle forum. Pleasant polite posters.

David
Wirespokes and the other guys had a lot to say and show on preventing repeats of this episode:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...ase+lever+boss
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