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Old 05-13-2012, 05:24 PM   #46
nulluser
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A few friends and I setup the pattern that MotoMind posted at 50' to keep the speeds down. I had dirt knobbies and had a lot of trouble on the asphalt. Well worth the $20 in cones.

Best time for the 50' track was 20.0 seconds, with an average time of around 23 seconds across the riders.


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Old 05-13-2012, 05:26 PM   #47
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well what I was taught, slipping the clutch is the same as friction zone. You disengage clutch a bit, so that just a fraction of motor's power is transferred to the wheel. Friction zone is just that gray zone between fully off and fully on. I personally use it, all the time when riding in heavy traffic at speeds where the bike is about to stall out. For switching between gears at speed I clutch very briefly. When hard on the throttle I up-shift without clutch, and for downshifting its just a quick stab with a quick blip, or smoother release with harder braking without blipping.

When I was just starting to learn slow maneuvers, way before I even knew what Gymkhana is, I got a DVD "Ride like a Pro" which teaches slow maneuvers that are used in Cop's rodeos. They ride pretty much all the time in the friction zone. However their courses are designed for much heavier bikes and slower speeds. With Gymkhana you are trying to haul ass and I personally think that by not touching the clutch, you are able to keep the power to the rear wheel all the time especially for those fast transitions and fast flicks into tight turns.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:32 PM   #48
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Nice! I'm ordering lap timer and joining the fray. 50 foot course. 20 seconds is the bar for now.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:21 PM   #49
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I think every bike is different, and you will ride them differently. Each course is also different. The Japanese (JAGE) courses have long straights that allow wider lines at higher speeds. UK MotoGymkhana & AMGRASS keep the straights short and the speeds low, so the lines are narrow and quick, hence changing body position is much more difficult.

We are working on more training videos, and we have one that is clutch/brake specific. While not everyone needs to feather the clutch, most streetbikes dont have a lot of power at low speeds/low RPMs, so feathering allows you to keep the RPMs, and maintain the burst of power needed for bikes not geared really low.






Quote:
Originally Posted by nulluser View Post
I had dirt knobbies and had a lot of trouble on the asphalt.
I ride dirt knobbies too

great video nulluser

looks like you guys are doing it right
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:28 PM   #50
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Here is a run on the bike with a decent front tire:



And from the side:


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Old 05-13-2012, 07:54 PM   #51
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These guys are hauling the mail in the rain

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Old 05-13-2012, 08:06 PM   #52
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Dredman, can't wait for some training videos from you guys. Info is really scarce, every little bit helps.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:18 PM   #53
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went out and tried it for the first time without any timers yesterday. The parking lot was sandy and dirty and there were big areas of broken glass that we avoided with our setup (It was the Tuxedo, NY ren fair parking lot, I imagine a lot of smashed goblets).

Had a blast, but I really want to start timing to try to improve. I'm looking forward to trying the setups you guys have up here, too. We tried setting some things up, but there was a lot of trial and error, so it will be nice to get more ideas from more proven courses.

It looks like I have a lot of reading to do on techniques. I can put in a different front sprocket easily enough to try not slipping the clutch at a lower speed. I wasn't quite going lock to lock yet, but my locks are really far apart. Should it feel like your headlight is facing real far down? I have to really think about what I'll be practicing. I weigh almost as much as my motorcycle, so I have a lot of options with throwing my weight around.

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Old 05-14-2012, 05:45 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulfy View Post
Nice! I'm ordering lap timer and joining the fray. 50 foot course. 20 seconds is the bar for now.
Is this 50 feet between each cone or are you measuring the entire pattern at 50 feet, end to end?
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:55 AM   #55
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[QUOTE=birds;18681286It looks like I have a lot of reading to do on techniques. I can put in a different front sprocket easily enough to try not slipping the clutch at a lower speed. I wasn't quite going lock to lock yet, but my locks are really far apart. Should it feel like your headlight is facing real far down? [/QUOTE]

Like others here, I havent' been able to find much to read about this stuff. I'm still a noobie myself but have been watching the all the videos that I can find and it looks like the headlight can be pointing down at an extreme angle, depending on the angle of lean and the depth of the turn. I've been trying to study body position as well as weight shift to figure out when and where the riders are moving to control the bike for each maneuver. I think that the distances between the cones is going to be very critical to make comparing course times accurate.

I have used Google Sketcher to draw a few things, as a free app, and it would lend itself very well here, because you can draw a flat diagram as well as a 3-D rendering, that includes dimensions in the drawing. It would be helpful to produce patterns that others could then copy for competitive purposes as well as practice sessions.

On another note:

I found a video shot in Japan where the riders were competing in heavy rain. It was obvious that they were off their normal times by a little, but still really pressing the bikes while riding through standing water on some places on the course that was, at times, between 1" and 2" deep. Blew me away! I guess I'm a sissy baby about rain and I'm gonna have to learn to get over it. These guys prove that if you "trust the Michelin Man" he will do his job and you just ride it. I'm gonna have to work to unlearn my squimishness about riding in rain, although I can't imagine competing in rain, there's really no reason not to ride in warmer weather since the tires are capable and I have a rain suit.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:04 AM   #56
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These guys prove that if you "trust the Michelin Man" he will do his job and you just ride it.
Should probably be Dunlop Man, since they are sponsoring all of their events.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:18 PM   #57
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Quote:

gymkhanaCourse

.
So I tried out this pattern today. Wow. I found this one to be substantially more demanding than the first one by Motomind. The back half, particularly the final three tight circles are a real killer. I don't know about you guys but after several laps, I am spent. This is a real workout. Hopefully it's just my poor technique and with time I wont feel as tired. I also find that this stuff really highlights some basic skills. In addition to good balance and throttle control, I find it essential to really rotate my head. If I don't turn my head around hard and focus on the next cone, I am done. I also find that it highlights my weaknesses. For me I am much stronger turning left so those tight right hand circles are a bitch. Lastly, as has been pointed out, dragging the rear and slipping the clutch is key. Lots of fun and great practice. I sure as hell won't be worrying about those tight u turns on the street anymore.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:36 PM   #58
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Haha, I'm glad you enjoying that pattern.
Yeah, as I said, if you feel as if you came out of the gym after a day of practicing, you are on the right track. You move a lot on the bike with those tight turns.

One thing that was pointed out to me, and I wasn't even thinking it would apply for this type of riding, was to ride these tight turns with entry point, apex and exit in mind, just like you would on twisties.
At first I was just riding them nilly-willy, turn is a turn. After I starting thinking where would my apex be around the cone, for the exit towards the next, it changed everything. It makes it much clear where I need to brake, how much I need to brake, and where to exit and just gas it to the next one.
And yes, head is very important.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:37 AM   #59
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Pattern #2

V: I know you said that your pattern is roughly 80X80 but can you be a little more specific? I would like to recreate this pattern for my next practice session on Sunday but I'd like to know I'm ridin' something close to what you guys have been talkin about...
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:21 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Vulfy View Post
Haha, I'm glad you enjoying that pattern.
Yeah, as I said, if you feel as if you came out of the gym after a day of practicing, you are on the right track. You move a lot on the bike with those tight turns.

One thing that was pointed out to me, and I wasn't even thinking it would apply for this type of riding, was to ride these tight turns with entry point, apex and exit in mind, just like you would on twisties.
At first I was just riding them nilly-willy, turn is a turn. After I starting thinking where would my apex be around the cone, for the exit towards the next, it changed everything. It makes it much clear where I need to brake, how much I need to brake, and where to exit and just gas it to the next one.
And yes, head is very important.
Yup, that's what I have found, try & think a turn or two ahead to get smoother lines, makes you get on the gas & lean more too. Hows your neck? I feel like an owl after 10 minutes..
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