WhatTheHellIsWrong with WhereTheHelliIsJames' bike? - Page 2

azcagiva · 05-09-2012, 07:17 PM

It seems to me to be an ignition problem. I am new to these bikes, but is there separate cdi boxes for each cylinder? If so try switching them. Also check out the ignition pulsers make sure the one bad cylinder has not moved.

Keep at it you will figure it out.

-John

David37 · 05-09-2012, 08:49 PM

This is a tough one, IMO I would try checking your plug wires, plug caps, plug wire connection to coils. I also would check your battery cables, battery connections, especially your ground connection to your frame. Lastly, try checking your voltage regulator.

MJS · 05-09-2012, 09:39 PM

Time for a leak down test. You checked the intake valve with carb cleaner but what about the exhaust? The symptoms could be caused by a burned or leaky exhaust valve. Listen to the exhaust pipe, the carb (with throttle open) and the crankcase vent when you have air in the cylinder. That will give you an idea of what is leaking if you have a problem.

WhereTheHellIsJames? · 05-09-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJS

Time for a leak down test. You checked the intake valve with carb cleaner but what about the exhaust? The symptoms could be caused by a burned or leaky exhaust valve. Listen to the exhaust pipe, the carb (with throttle open) and the crankcase vent when you have air in the cylinder. That will give you an idea of what is leaking if you have a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZERO

Next would be compression and leak down test, because if it has spark, fuel is fine and air is fine then the problem is "the pump" meaning rings or something like that.

I think you guys are right here. I don't have a leak down tester, but maybe I can borrow one from someone. I'll ask around and see if anyone locally has one that I can use. BTW, on a bike like this, should I just run it up in the same neighborhood as I would on a car (around 100 psi)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZERO

How many miles does this engine has?

Just a little over 12k miles.

slackmeyer · 05-09-2012, 10:18 PM

You can do the same test on the exhaust valves as you did on your intakes, pull the exhaust pipe and pour some gasoline on the valves with the engine at TDC. Sounds fishy to me, I don't think it's the valves.

azcagiva · 05-13-2012, 10:36 AM

Any news?

WhereTheHellIsJames? · 05-21-2012, 03:36 PM

Sorry for the lapse in time between posts!

On Saturday I picked up a leak-down tester from one of the local shops that I used to have a working relationship with. Actually, since they were cool enough to let me use their tools, I'll give SF Moto a plug here- all the folks there are awesome. If you're in the bay area, and in market for a scooter, a used motorcycle, or aftermarket or OEM parts, give Eric, Andy, Tony or Thomas a call... they'll treat you right, and it's good to support businesses that care about supporting the motorcycling community, not just about selling bikes.

Okay, back to the matter at hand here... just moments ago, I finished the leak-down test. The results came as no surprise to me, as I've confirmed that everything above the intake valves is good, and everything below the exhaust valves is good.

This afternoon, I tore down the bike for probably the dozenth time since the issue arose. Everything went smoothly, and I hae to admit, I feel like I'm getting pretty efficient at tear-down and build-up of the 950 Adventure. A skill that admittedly, I've never really wanted. I got the crash-bars, fairings, tanks, carbs, air-box, and valve covers off. Pulled the plugs, and set the front cylinder to TDC. I bought one of those bolt-like tools with the allen end to hold the cylinder in exactly TDC a couple weeks ago, but couldn't find it... so I just lined up the dots and confirmed the lobe positions on the cams. Plugging the hose into the spark-plug hole was a cinch, and I hooked up the air to the tester. I could hear that there was a leak somewhere. Just to confirm, I pulled the header from the front of the cylinder. Yep, definitely an exhaust valve leak... a big one too.

Looking at the valves, I was surprised to see how grungy the ports and stems were. There is all sorts of hard, crusty build-up in there. It almost looks like this bike never had an air cleaner on it. I've had a look at probably a hundred or more heads, and have never seen anything like it. Looks like caked on dirt / mud / creosote. Nasty.

Anyways, problem identified. Now what? Does anyone with experience have suggestions of where to (or for that matter, where not to) take / send the heads off for rework? I'm assuming that it's appropriate standard procedure to do both heads instead of just the one that's giving issues... can anyone confirm this? Since the bike will be torn down to the point where the heads are removed, is there anything else that might as well be done at his time while the engine is this far apart? FWIW, the bike has 12.5K miles on it.

GZERO · 05-22-2012, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhereTheHellIsJames?

Anyways, problem identified. Now what? Does anyone with experience have suggestions of where to (or for that matter, where not to) take / send the heads off for rework? I'm assuming that it's appropriate standard procedure to do both heads instead of just the one that's giving issues... can anyone confirm this? Since the bike will be torn down to the point where the heads are removed, is there anything else that might as well be done at his time while the engine is this far apart? FWIW, the bike has 12.5K miles on it.

Since you have some kind of experience mechanically, i would suggest yourself. It's not hard, you even have a manual to guide you trough it. (it's not like you have to do much to a 10k miles head, just take the valves out, inspect them, change the oil seals on the valves, clean, graduate valves and that's pretty much it.)
If the front is like that and the rear is not i would suggest into looking at two things, the engine breather oil seal (on the rotor side of the engine) gets damaged and it will start to eat a lot of oil, especially the front cylinder (which i believe you are experiencing this) also, the breather hose (the one that goes from the right side of the engine, rotor side, to the air box) well our models have a hose and that's it, later on they changed that for a hose with a one way valve.
So, to sum up, if your front looks ugly and the rear is perfect i would bet this is your problem altough it might have something to do with a valve with too little free play.

Still, 10k miles is NOTHING to these engines, so it's pretty weird to hear all this.

GZERO · 05-31-2012, 09:51 PM

did you fix it?

Pointman0853 · 06-01-2012, 09:38 AM

Have you tried swapping the ignition coils? They may show spark out of the cylinder, but its another thing under compression.

Using a ampmeter, check the resistance in each. I've had these go bad on other bikes...

Pointman

unaweep · 06-01-2012, 09:44 AM

How about exhaust seals at the header? Pull the header and see if there is a seal, or any dust remnants of a seal. May be a long shot, but I saw something sort of similar happen to a buddy's SE. Good luck!

Edit to add- whoops _ it seems like you've gotten to the bottome of the problem. You got that far, you can go the rest of the way. It's not hard. Good luck again!

1911fan · 06-03-2012, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZERO

did you fix it?

1911fan

sledstorm1 · 06-03-2012, 09:23 AM

Happened to my son's 250 xcf... one month of trying to figure out why it's misfiring...broken spark plug cap, arching at odd times, wet and just close enough to cylinder... ya never know

unaweep · 06-03-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sledstorm1

Happened to my son's 250 xcf... one month of trying to figure out why it's misfiring...broken spark plug cap, arching at odd times, wet and just close enough to cylinder... ya never know

+1. This JUST happened to me with a BRAND new 500 EXC- I switched out the exhaust and it would back fire and stall. I spent all day trying to figure out what I could have done wrong- only .1 hours on the clock.

I was comparing the plug on that bike to another 500 EXC and my greasy hands exposed the crack in the procelain.

2aroundtheworld · 06-05-2012, 11:34 AM

Everyone

I am the owner of this bike...James has been extremely nice and put a lot of work on it trying to figure out the problem...
It seems like we are now down to the exhaust valve, so I'll start working on it with him as soon as possible. Despite the problem (s), I am missing the bike right now and would love to ride it again.

thanks again for everyone's input on this - we will keep you posted!

05-09-2012, 07:17 PM	#16
azcagiva new orange flavor Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Camp Verde, AZ Oddometer: 1,058	It seems to me to be an ignition problem. I am new to these bikes, but is there separate cdi boxes for each cylinder? If so try switching them. Also check out the ignition pulsers make sure the one bad cylinder has not moved. Keep at it you will figure it out. -John __________________ An Elefant never forgets. 2012 Baja 1000 www.Raceforthewounded.com Help us race the 1000, and double the value of your KLR by buying a t- shirt

05-09-2012, 09:39 PM	#18
MJS Beastly Adventurer Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Ventura, CA Oddometer: 1,490	Time for a leak down test. You checked the intake valve with carb cleaner but what about the exhaust? The symptoms could be caused by a burned or leaky exhaust valve. Listen to the exhaust pipe, the carb (with throttle open) and the crankcase vent when you have air in the cylinder. That will give you an idea of what is leaking if you have a problem. __________________ "You can follow me, but it's gonna hurt"

05-09-2012, 10:18 PM	#20
slackmeyer Don't mean sheeit. . Joined: Jul 2007 Location: Berzerkeley, CA Oddometer: 2,545	You can do the same test on the exhaust valves as you did on your intakes, pull the exhaust pipe and pour some gasoline on the valves with the engine at TDC. Sounds fishy to me, I don't think it's the valves. __________________ Zak ktm old bmw others

05-13-2012, 10:36 AM	#21
azcagiva new orange flavor Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Camp Verde, AZ Oddometer: 1,058	Any news? __________________ An Elefant never forgets. 2012 Baja 1000 www.Raceforthewounded.com Help us race the 1000, and double the value of your KLR by buying a t- shirt

06-01-2012, 09:38 AM	#25
Pointman0853 Unregistered Gun Owner Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Douglas County, Nevada Oddometer: 1,324	Ignition Have you tried swapping the ignition coils? They may show spark out of the cylinder, but its another thing under compression. Using a ampmeter, check the resistance in each. I've had these go bad on other bikes... Pointman __________________ AMA Life Member 600475 IBA #5 More Cowbell!

05-09-2012, 08:49 PM	#17
David37 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: May 2008 Location: SLO County Oddometer: 297	This is a tough one, IMO I would try checking your plug wires, plug caps, plug wire connection to coils. I also would check your battery cables, battery connections, especially your ground connection to your frame. Lastly, try checking your voltage regulator.

05-21-2012, 03:36 PM	#22
WhereTheHellIsJames? ^OP Adventurer Joined: Jun 2010 Oddometer: 37	Sorry for the lapse in time between posts! On Saturday I picked up a leak-down tester from one of the local shops that I used to have a working relationship with. Actually, since they were cool enough to let me use their tools, I'll give SF Moto a plug here- all the folks there are awesome. If you're in the bay area, and in market for a scooter, a used motorcycle, or aftermarket or OEM parts, give Eric, Andy, Tony or Thomas a call... they'll treat you right, and it's good to support businesses that care about supporting the motorcycling community, not just about selling bikes. Okay, back to the matter at hand here... just moments ago, I finished the leak-down test. The results came as no surprise to me, as I've confirmed that everything above the intake valves is good, and everything below the exhaust valves is good. This afternoon, I tore down the bike for probably the dozenth time since the issue arose. Everything went smoothly, and I hae to admit, I feel like I'm getting pretty efficient at tear-down and build-up of the 950 Adventure. A skill that admittedly, I've never really wanted. I got the crash-bars, fairings, tanks, carbs, air-box, and valve covers off. Pulled the plugs, and set the front cylinder to TDC. I bought one of those bolt-like tools with the allen end to hold the cylinder in exactly TDC a couple weeks ago, but couldn't find it... so I just lined up the dots and confirmed the lobe positions on the cams. Plugging the hose into the spark-plug hole was a cinch, and I hooked up the air to the tester. I could hear that there was a leak somewhere. Just to confirm, I pulled the header from the front of the cylinder. Yep, definitely an exhaust valve leak... a big one too. Looking at the valves, I was surprised to see how grungy the ports and stems were. There is all sorts of hard, crusty build-up in there. It almost looks like this bike never had an air cleaner on it. I've had a look at probably a hundred or more heads, and have never seen anything like it. Looks like caked on dirt / mud / creosote. Nasty. Anyways, problem identified. Now what? Does anyone with experience have suggestions of where to (or for that matter, where not to) take / send the heads off for rework? I'm assuming that it's appropriate standard procedure to do both heads instead of just the one that's giving issues... can anyone confirm this? Since the bike will be torn down to the point where the heads are removed, is there anything else that might as well be done at his time while the engine is this far apart? FWIW, the bike has 12.5K miles on it.

05-31-2012, 09:51 PM	#24
GZERO Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2011 Location: Venezuela Oddometer: 238	did you fix it?

06-01-2012, 09:44 AM	#26
unaweep Uses lotsa band-aids Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Western Colorado Oddometer: 8,984	How about exhaust seals at the header? Pull the header and see if there is a seal, or any dust remnants of a seal. May be a long shot, but I saw something sort of similar happen to a buddy's SE. Good luck! Edit to add- whoops _ it seems like you've gotten to the bottome of the problem. You got that far, you can go the rest of the way. It's not hard. Good luck again!

06-03-2012, 09:23 AM	#28
sledstorm1 Studly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2009 Location: Northern Ct Oddometer: 604	Happened to my son's 250 xcf... one month of trying to figure out why it's misfiring...broken spark plug cap, arching at odd times, wet and just close enough to cylinder... ya never know __________________ To those who understand, no explaination is necessary Too those who don't, none is possible...

06-05-2012, 11:34 AM	#30
2aroundtheworld Adventurer Joined: Apr 2008 Oddometer: 39	Everyone I am the owner of this bike...James has been extremely nice and put a lot of work on it trying to figure out the problem... It seems like we are now down to the exhaust valve, so I'll start working on it with him as soon as possible. Despite the problem (s), I am missing the bike right now and would love to ride it again. thanks again for everyone's input on this - we will keep you posted!

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