Service Manuals

[GlennR]

Originally Posted by bomber60015

I agree that the law has not kept up with technology, not even close, wrt copyrights.

But I disagree that simply because theft is now easier, it's OK.

I've always considered a service doc a tool -- I don't expect Triumph to give me factory tools so I can service my bike ;-}

Speaking of "keeping up with technology" I'm surprised that more companies aren't utilizing it more for their owners manuals. Vehicles keep getting more complex and you'd expect the manufacturers would include DVDs to show owners all the various features and adjustments. A lot of the info in manuals is sometimes difficult to understand through words, black & white photos, and line drawings. I'd think it would be much easier for the engineers to video some of the technical features. The companies obviously spend major $$ on their advertising videos & photography. It seems like they would see the obvious benefits of it "after the sale" too.

In such a competitive marketplace you would think manufactures would "give away" as much as they can when there's only a one time cost for them to do it. Tools, parts, books, etc have a cost per unit, but electronic media does not.

[GreaseMonkey]

Originally Posted by GlennR

I never meant to sound like I wanted anything illegal. I'd seen the Yamaha site once and thought that there might be others which are legally available too. I have seen KTM manuals too. I thought it would be helpful to start a thread to ask about where to find legal factory manuals, since I had a hard time locating many of them. I really didn't know whether or not it was a big deal or not these days with the internet & pdf's.

As I've said in earlier posts "why wouldn't manufacturers want to share their libraries of manuals, since it's so cheap to do so now?".

Sure, there are illegal copies of everything from movies, music, to maunals floating around the internet, but I wasn't trying start a thread about listing illegal sources. That would be dumb. Sorry if I rubbed some folks the wrong way for asking, but I didn't see the info and just figured that "it wouldn't hurt to ask"....

Glenn you were quite clear that you were not looking for anything illegal, so IMHO you do not need to apologise and if anyone wishes to believe that you are actually wanting something other than what you have stated, well that is their own personal issue and you have no obligation to make it your issue as well.

[bomber60015]

Originally Posted by GlennR

Speaking of "keeping up with technology" I'm surprised that more companies aren't utilizing it more for their owners manuals. Vehicles keep getting more complex and you'd expect the manufacturers would include DVDs to show owners all the various features and adjustments. A lot of the info in manuals is sometimes difficult to understand through words, black & white photos, and line drawings. I'd think it would be much easier for the engineers to video some of the technical features. The companies obviously spend major $$ on their advertising videos & photography. It seems like they would see the obvious benefits of it "after the sale" too.

In such a competitive marketplace you would think manufactures would "give away" as much as they can when there's only a one time cost for them to do it. Tools, parts, books, etc have a cost per unit, but electronic media does not.

Producing an electronic Owner's manual, while a great idea, would be pretty expensive (as I"m sure you know). Since we're addressing a competitive marketplace, how many extra bikes do you think they'd move, or how much extra cache would a brand earn due to their electronic owner's manual? None, and not much, I'd bet.

As for elecctronic media not having a cost, that isn't true, for one, there would be ongoing expenses to maintain the media and website, et al, and, lastly, what would they get for this effort. One or two customers (like you and me) who MAY buy their stuff anyway -- they would certainly gain happy secondary customers ;-}

After having been through this discussion with a motorcycle manufacturer, their decision was that they would follow the traditional model (hint, their lawyers had a part in the conversation).

[ttpete]

The service manual for my Ducati is in CD format. It's in HTML and opens in a browser. It's in full color, and even has hose and wiring harness routing diagrams.

One thing to understand about factory manuals is that they are written for the use of professional service techs. There are not a lot of basic instructions. The user is assumed to have a working knowledge of his trade.

[GlennR]

It should be obvious that the masses love all the digital goodies that have become available in the past few years. There are 194087 members on advrider.com who are all engaged in the digital world, just by the fact that they are "here". Whether we are primary or secondary customers is irrelevent, because it is all "their market". New bikes cannot be sold without the used bikes being sold. Classic older machines "sell" the newer bikes by proving that a brand will last.

While digital information isn't "free" to produce, it is much less costly than printing. It is also much less expensive to distribute.

I'm not a big Apple fan, but they have proven that we are addicted to gagets and information, and they have proven how profitable it is to offer more, more, & more. If Ducati has their manual on CD already other manufactures will soon follow.

[GlennR]

Here's a site that looks pretty informative about working on motorcycles. "Dan's Online Motorcycle Repair Course" http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm

From the few minutes I spent checking it out I found tons of info & links about all kinds of bikes, engines, manuals, etc.

Let me know what you think about it.