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Old 05-26-2012, 08:31 PM   #736
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Originally Posted by JNRobert View Post
Better yet make them 2.5l 4 cylinder turbo's with boost and rev limits (say 2 bar and 16k). That would be even more relevant.
And Diesel?
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:35 AM   #737
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Fascinating qualifying!I wouldn't suggest more teams are needed... but perhaps more stronger teams. The money and resources that mainstream manufacturers bring to the table can often bring that.
There have always been 'minnows' in the Piranha Club . However, it's debatable whether their presence adds anything and so, perhaps (theoretically), yes it would be better if all the teams were equally well-funded. As it's impossible to ensure that all teams have the funding of the best, it was mooted that all should have spending capped. It was the manufacturer-teams that objected most vociferously to this proposal. It should be remembered that resources don't mean success. Toyota is a first-class example.

My question is whether more manufacturer teams is a good idea. Red Bull are not a manufacturer, nor is Sauber, Williams, Force India or McLaren (despite their MP4-12-C road car). Renault have given-up everything except engine supply, Honda, Toyota and BMW have withdrawn completely. Ferrari are a bit odd in that they are a manufacturer albeit one that only started making road cars to compete in F1 and whose products are only marginally less exclusive than their F1 cars.

The problem with manufacturers in F1 is that if or when the manufacturer pulls-out, no other manufacturer will step-in to take-over the team. It took a year of 'Brawn GP' before Mercedes-Benz could bring themselves to buy Honda's defunct team and it's residual expertise. VW-Audi couldn't bring themselves to buy BMW's left-overs and it was virtually given back to Peter Sauber.

There are pragmatic reasons for this; manufacturers are concerned about potential loss of R&D to commercial competitors and new manufacturer-teams are wary of potential jibes that their F1 success (if any) owed more to the out-going manufacturer than to their own efforts.

The other effect of manufacturer-teams is this idea of "relevance". It's the natural course taken by car manufacturer-teams faced by having to convince their boards that F1 is especially relevant to their core-business. It's difficult to argue that "racing improves the breed" when the central element has no obvious relevance to their products.

The smaller the engines have become, the more dependant upon the resources of manufacturers that the sport has become. This is the effect of squeezing similar power from 2.4 litres as was achieved from 3.5 litres. It's much easier to build powerful, large capacity, multi-cylinder engines and that's why the last remaining independent engine manufacturers have disappeared: it takes the resources of big companies to produce 2.4 litre V8s with F1 level power-outputs (and reliability).

On the whole and as counter-intuitive as it may seem, manufacturers are not good for F1.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:32 PM   #738
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The lack of comments a reflection of the race?

It was no Indy 500. That was a race and a half.

It was nice to see all the leaders bunched up. But if Button couldn't pass a Caterham, why on earth would the cheerleader commentators think there would be any passing by the more evenly matched cars?

Congrats to Webbah.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:52 PM   #739
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Monaco hasn't been much of a race for years. The circuit simply doesn't lend itself to proper racing. It is, in fact, just a spectacle for the wealthy to attend and flaunt their lifestyle. Give me Spa any day.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:13 PM   #740
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Not rooting for red bull this year (nor last year) but happy to see Webber take a win.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #741
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Monaco hasn't been much of a race for years. The circuit simply doesn't lend itself to proper racing. It is, in fact, just a spectacle for the wealthy to attend and flaunt their lifestyle. Give me Spa any day.

I get bored when they stack up like that. With Webber's tires going off, he's just a road block but it often equals a win in Monaco.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:05 AM   #742
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It's hard to appreciate how fast cars are going, when you watch them on TV.

This may be 205 for some of you, for it's new to me. Sports cars vs F1 at Spa. Stunning difference.


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Old 05-29-2012, 03:43 AM   #743
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Wow! Those cars on the left AREN"T SLOW!
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:39 AM   #744
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what a shit race...
anyway.. Montreal soon.

Red Bull's controversial floor slot:



similar slot on Sauber:



Ferrari

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Old 05-29-2012, 08:01 AM   #745
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Originally Posted by bobobob View Post
And Diesel?

Why not go for the "you X amount of energy. Use it any way you see fit."

Electric, diesel, gas, turbine, hovercraft full of eels, etc...

You'll see some interesting things pop up. But of course Ferrari will never go for it.
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:59 PM   #746
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What are the bumps ahead of the slots on the Ferrari and the Red Bull?
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:11 PM   #747
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
What are the bumps ahead of the slots on the Ferrari and the Red Bull?
Sauber has it too.... not sure. They look like they vent into the low pressure area...
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g容g screwed with this post 05-29-2012 at 01:29 PM
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
It's hard to appreciate how fast cars are going, when you watch them on TV.

This may be 205 for some of you, for it's new to me. Sports cars vs F1 at Spa. Stunning difference.


Along similar lines

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Old 05-29-2012, 02:12 PM   #749
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The video illustrations of F1 speed are very cool, thanks.

Yep, snoozer of a race, star factor is the only reason this race is still on the calendar.

As far as engines go, we have to remember that these guys need years to develop an engine. You can't design, build, test a fast & reliable motor in a few months time. So if they believe they are moving to a different platform in 2013, they've likely been designing/testing that platform for over a year now. If the FIA keep pushing back the engine change, than all those hours are wasted and next thing you know 50M euro goes down the drain.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:14 PM   #750
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What happened the the 4 cylinder plans? Last thing I want is for F1 to sound as exciting as IRL with turbo V6's. They sound like muffled farts.
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