MPG Computer for K bikes (and others)

[BMWzenrider]

Originally Posted by wmax351

One option would be to make cables that have a male and female for each connection. One to the fuel injector, and the one that goes to the turn signal relay is in the relay box anyhow, and not a big deal to pierce.

Not sure what you mean by the first sentence?
I agree that the Posi-Taps are fine for long-term use because of the support and seal they create around the hole in the stock wire.

My thoughts are about trying to deal with the broken insulation if you remove the device to move it to another bike.
If the insulation is not sealed after the tap is removed the wires will corrode.

-----

So, do you have a better handle of what these might be priced at?
Timeline of availability?

Thanks!

[mattjw916]

Originally Posted by BMWzenrider

Where does the used car salesman comment come from?
I am not trying to sell anyone on this project.
I am just an interested party who happened to point out that the cost/savings comment made was untrue for myself due to the amount of miles I ride each year.
And also that it is againt the rules to piss in someone elses thread. Which kinda sounds like what you are doing as well, isn't it?

----------

As far as saving money, I try to save money when I can so that I CAN afford to take longer rides into the wild when I feel the urge.
I haven't owned a car since 1998 and ride my bikes exclusively. So being able to save money on fuel use in my bikes would affect my every-day bottom line.
And my bottom-line needs attending to since I am on a fixed VA disability pension.

Are you saying that you are so wealthy that you never have to worry about saving money?
Must be nice, but most of the inmates here are not 1%-ers...
Don't assume that you know what is right for others based upon your life and biases.
You remember that old saying about ASS-YOU-ming, don't you?

----------

And as to your comment about "pointless" rides, that is all a matter of opinion now isn't it?

Have you forgotten what site/forum you are posting in?
It is called Adventure Rider, not commuter scooters.
This place is ALL about people going out and taking what you characterize as "pointless" rides to the middle of nowhere and back.

Why the need to dis other people for what they enjoy?
Are you suddenly the lord-high-pubah of what is right or wrong for everyone else in the world?

If you don't have any sense of adventure or a love of wild places that doesn't make it "pointless" for others to do what they love - now does it?
If you are content to only ride your bike from stoplight to stoplight during your commute to work and find that satisfying, that is your deal.
If you don't like Adventure rides and can't understand why others would, what are you doing as a member of a forum called "ADVENTURE Rider"???
I don't know your exact motivations or interests, but it certainly doesn't seem like you understand the focus of ADVrider.

Your prior post in this thread also displays your lack of understanding of what this device is supposed to do and the intended audience.
You are not interested in it, we get it.
Now stop checking in on this thread, nothing for you to see here...

-----

Now, can we get back to discussing the development of this project?
(And stop getting distracted by people who really don't have any interest in it in the first place and are simply looking for a reason to piss on this thread...)

Wow, you seriously like the sound of your keyboard clacking don't you? I bet I can find a dozen more efficient ways to save money than splitting hairs over a few MPG that won't amount to much money in the real world... do the math slick.

The rest of the crap you typed is just pedantic rambling and straw man arguments...

[wmax351]

Originally Posted by BMWzenrider

Not sure what you mean by the first sentence?
I agree that the Posi-Taps are fine for long-term use because of the support and seal they create around the hole in the stock wire.

My thoughts are about trying to deal with the broken insulation if you remove the device to move it to another bike.
If the insulation is not sealed after the tap is removed the wires will corrode.

-----

So, do you have a better handle of what these might be priced at?
Timeline of availability?

Thanks!

Basically, there would be a male and female fuel injector connector (bosch AMPseal, iirc), with wires in between, pre-tapped.

A daub of liquid electrical tape would solve the corrosion problems.

Price-wise, I think it will end up being between 100-150 dollars. I plan to get some of these into production this summer.

For your R-bikes, I will have to do a bit more research with regard to locations in the wiring harness that have the conditioned, pulsed signal, rather than raw sine wave output.

[sargev55]

is it worth the gas mileage to lean out your fuel mixture?

a little leaner is more efficient, but its also a lot hotter. does this device allow you to change fuel mapping on the fly? i have an older turbo eclipse with an apexi safc-1 fuel trim computer, i can lean that out manually, or richen the mixture at any time. i used to lean my 95 gs-t out on long highway runs and would have an egt temp of around 820c, and get around 40mpg, on a car that was factory stock at around 29mpg highway. i would revert to normal (well, dyno tune normal specs) after doing the long highway haul. the car is not stock, turbo is 3x bigger than stock, injectors are capable of pumping 600cc more per minute and fuel pump is capable of about 90 liters more per hour.


btw, i do not see the benefit in any of this. this is not applicable to my bike in any way, i have a carb'ed harley that gets around 45-50mpg almost regardless of how i ride it.

i just really dont care.

primarily because,

you have no idea what you will encounter, the mpg is based on normal conditions and normal riding, it cannot account for the things that might happen out in BFE.

long trip equals carrying more fuel.

[wmax351]

Originally Posted by sargev55

is it worth the gas mileage to lean out your fuel mixture?

a little leaner is more efficient, but its also a lot hotter. does this device allow you to change fuel mapping on the fly? i have an older turbo eclipse with an apexi safc-1 fuel trim computer, i can lean that out manually, or richen the mixture at any time. i used to lean my 95 gs-t out on long highway runs and would have an egt temp of around 820c, and get around 40mpg, on a car that was factory stock at around 29mpg highway. i would revert to normal (well, dyno tune normal specs) after doing the long highway haul. the car is not stock, turbo is 3x bigger than stock, injectors are capable of pumping 600cc more per minute and fuel pump is capable of about 90 liters more per hour.


btw, i do not see the benefit in any of this. this is not applicable to my bike in any way, i have a carb'ed harley that gets around 45-50mpg almost regardless of how i ride it.

i just really dont care.

primarily because,

you have no idea what you will encounter, the mpg is based on normal conditions and normal riding, it cannot account for the things that might happen out in BFE.

long trip equals carrying more fuel.

It doesn't touch the fuel mixture. It just calculates the fuel mileage and remaining fuel. A lot of fuel economy comes from driving habits. Zenrider is looking at gearing changes(via wheel size), and other equipment changes. Not the fuel/air mix.

[BMWzenrider]

Originally Posted by wmax351

Basically, there would be a male and female fuel injector connector (bosch AMPseal, iirc), with wires in between, pre-tapped.

Ok, I understand now, sorta the way the booterplug and similar devices attach in-line with the air temp probe.
That would be an excellent way to do it!

Originally Posted by wmax351

A daub of liquid electrical tape would solve the corrosion problems.

Yeah, that could work. I have also thought of silicone fusion tape which could add more support to the broken section of insulation and doesn't have the problem of adhesive aging.
I would probably do a belt & suspenders approach of doing both, fusion tape over liquid sealant.

Of course, using the plug method to tap in at one of the connections would be the prefered way to do it in my book.

[BMWzenrider]

Originally Posted by wmax351

Price-wise, I think it will end up being between 100-150 dollars. I plan to get some of these into production this summer.

For your R-bikes, I will have to do a bit more research with regard to locations in the wiring harness that have the conditioned, pulsed signal, rather than raw sine wave output.

If I were closer to you I would volunteer my bike(s) for you to find where to tap in, but my planned summer trip is taking me in the exact opposite direction from SoCal.
I would poke around on the bikes myself except I don't have a 'silly-scope in my shop.

The current plan is to leave late June or early July to do a circle of the Canadian Atlantic maritine provinces.
There are a few stretches of the Trans-Labrador Highway with no services/fuel for lots of miles, and it would be great to have a more accurate range-to-empty guage for knowing if I need to pack along extra fuel, and how much.

Any chance that I might be able to get my hands on one by the end of June?

[wmax351]

Originally Posted by BMWzenrider

If I were closer to you I would volunteer my bike(s) for you to find where to tap in, but my planned summer trip is taking me in the exact opposite direction from SoCal.
I would poke around on the bikes myself except I don't have a 'silly-scope in my shop.

The current plan is to leave late June or early July to do a circle of the Canadian Atlantic maritine provinces.
There are a few stretches of the Trans-Labrador Highway with no services/fuel for lots of miles, and it would be great to have a more accurate range-to-empty guage for knowing if I need to pack along extra fuel, and how much.

Any chance that I might be able to get my hands on one by the end of June?

I am finishing up the code at the moment. Almost everything is ready to pull the trigger on.

I will be gone from the middle of june to the end of june.

Does your bike have self cancelling turn signals? If so, it likely has the pulsed output you need. You could also use a reed switch and a magnet, a-la bicycle speedometer.

The fuel use part is easy to set up, and would work on your bike.

I'll keep you posted on the status. If the timing is getting close, I could make one with a breadboard for you. A bit more DIY looking, but would do the trick. You would have to figure out the enclosure, as that will be the hold-up time wise.

[BMWzenrider]

Originally Posted by wmax351

I am finishing up the code at the moment. Almost everything is ready to pull the trigger on.

I will be gone from the middle of june to the end of june.

Does your bike have self cancelling turn signals? If so, it likely has the pulsed output you need. You could also use a reed switch and a magnet, a-la bicycle speedometer.

The fuel use part is easy to set up, and would work on your bike.

I'll keep you posted on the status. If the timing is getting close, I could make one with a breadboard for you. A bit more DIY looking, but would do the trick. You would have to figure out the enclosure, as that will be the hold-up time wise.

Yes, the R1200RT does have self-cancelling turn signals, and that is the one that I am most interested in installing this on (And the one I will be taking on my trip.).

As far as looks, that is not as much of an issue to me, and of course the breadboard could always be potted into the case/enclosure to ensure waterproofness and to "hide" the breadboard...

Any word on sourcing the plugs to be able to do a plug-in attachment at the injector?
Would those be the same plug used on the intake air temp sensor like PoolSide is using for the IICE Air modules?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=804

If so I might be able to source a set of plugs from him (or find out what part numbers I need to order) for a pass-through/plug-in tap at the injector.

Looking forward to further progress, and hopefully getting one of these bad boys in my hands this month yet!

[wmax351]

Originally Posted by BMWzenrider

Yes, the R1200RT does have self-cancelling turn signals, and that is the one that I am most interested in installing this on (And the one I will be taking on my trip.).

As far as looks, that is not as much of an issue to me, and of course the breadboard could always be potted into the case/enclosure to ensure waterproofness and to "hide" the breadboard...

Any word on sourcing the plugs to be able to do a plug-in attachment at the injector?
Would those be the same plug used on the intake air temp sensor like PoolSide is using for the IICE Air modules?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=804

If so I might be able to source a set of plugs from him (or find out what part numbers I need to order) for a pass-through/plug-in tap at the injector.

Looking forward to further progress, and hopefully getting one of these bad boys in my hands this month yet!

I've been looking for the connectors. The Female ones are easy. However, the male ones are ending up being more difficult to find. I believe they are the same as those used by poolside. Although, I didn't see the part that connects to the wiring harness.

Another approach would be to tap in near the EFI computer. This position is protected from the weather, so removing a posi tap wouldn't be an issue.


Edit: I found them. Shouldn't be a big deal to use them.

You will still have to tap the wire for the blinker relay.

[BMWzenrider]

Originally Posted by wmax351

I've been looking for the connectors.
Edit: I found them. Shouldn't be a big deal to use them.

You will still have to tap the wire for the blinker relay.

Sounds like progress continues, good deal!

So, any idea yet which wire is for the blinker relay on a R1200RT?
I don't have a wiring diagram for my bike, but if I know what to look for perhaps I can find a set of plugs for where that wire connects somewhere as well.

Thanks!

[wmax351]

Originally Posted by BMWzenrider

Sounds like progress continues, good deal!

So, any idea yet which wire is for the blinker relay on a R1200RT?
I don't have a wiring diagram for my bike, but if I know what to look for perhaps I can find a set of plugs for where that wire connects somewhere as well.

Thanks!

It likely connects to the flasher relay. However, that plug is a many point relay connector. Your best bet is to just tap it.

I've pretty much finalized the design, and I will be starting to buy stuff for it this week.

[wmax351]

Just ordered the PCB's. ETA 8 days. I ordered 100, but the first batch will be 25 assembled units. I hope to start assembling them at the end of June.

[BMWzenrider]

Originally Posted by wmax351

Just ordered the PCB's. ETA 8 days. I ordered 100, but the first batch will be 25 assembled units. I hope to start assembling them at the end of June.

Thanks for the update!

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like I will be able to see one before I leave on my "Big Summer Trip"(tm).

Of course, I may not leave until after the 4th of July holiday in order to avoid the crowds & traffic. How soon do you think you would have one ready?
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to send one on a nice long torture test of hundreds of miles of gravel out in the boonies???

[wmax351]

Originally Posted by BMWzenrider

Thanks for the update!

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like I will be able to see one before I leave on my "Big Summer Trip"(tm).

Of course, I may not leave until after the 4th of July holiday in order to avoid the crowds & traffic. How soon do you think you would have one ready?
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to send one on a nice long torture test of hundreds of miles of gravel out in the boonies???

I'm going to try to tighten up my prototype a bit, and make it fit in a box. It is currently on a 6x8 inch board, with tons of jumpers. I will give it a torture test on my ride to NE in a week. Will mainly use it to calibrate the values for fuel flow, etc.


You could buy one of these, and set it up yourself.

http://www.dschmidt.com/MPGuinoJBD.html

You'd be on your own for an enclosure, as well as the method of patching into your harness. I can send you my version of the code, which you could upload with a cheap programmer. Or you could possibly have this guy put the code on before shipping.