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Old 05-31-2012, 06:00 PM   #2896
Poolside OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs View Post

Has anyone put this on and run the bike on a gas analyzer and a dyno before and after? I did dig through some of the posts, but wow there are a ton!
Hey there TM. The IICE Air richens the mixture by 6% during Open-loop operation.

For Open-loop operation that is the expected result from lowering the Intake Air Temperature input to the ECU. As you can imagine, the fuel/air ratio is a mass ratio calculation, and the temperature and pressure of the air is used to calculate the mass of the air.

For Closed-loop operation, the ECU still relies on air temperature and pressure, but 'adjusts' its mass ratio calculations based on feedback from the O2 sensor. This 'feedback adjustment' eventually negates the 6% enrichment during Closed-loop operation.

Thinking about the differences between Open-loop and Closed-loop for a minute might lead a person to think that disconnecting the O2 sensor would be the way to go. You know. The imagined solution is to eliminate the O2 sensor feedback and the ECU will not know what to do. The idea is it will switch over to to a rich 'limp home' mode. Which sounds great except that isn't the way it works.

The ECU has the primary task of creating the proper exhaust constituents to properly operate the catalyst. That is its primary task, not the secondary task, the primary task. To support that objective the ECU is programmed to create the right exhaust constituents with or without O2 sensor feedback. The ECU does a much better job of that with the O2 sensor feedback than without. Running the ECU without an O2 sensor input makes Closed-loop drivability worse long term.


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IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:04 PM   #2897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darmahman View Post

Put the ICEE Air on just now and took it for a quick spin around the block. What I noticed: Starts quicker, idles slightly higher, and just as advertised smoother transitions between idle/ off idle. Not huge changes but definitely noticeable positive drivability changes. Easy install - very good workmanship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deco View Post

+1

Same experience here. Very nice mod. Thanks PS for all the work!!

I have only ridden a short time with it but the difference is very apparent. It smooths out some of the throttle's rough edges, please forgive my lack technical expertise in describing the performance.

Me likey.
I think that's plenty enough technical for most people. Thanks for the kudos, folks.


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Old 05-31-2012, 06:13 PM   #2898
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Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 1 Pics


Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 1 Pics
Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 2 Pics
Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 3 Pics
Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 4 Pics

...to be continued


I thought you'd enjoy seeing a build process from start to finish.

If you have questions about a particular step, please DO NOT QUOTE THE ENTIRE RUN OF PICTURES.  Thank you.


Start off with parts for 100 IICE Airs.




Begin with the bare board.




IICE AIr circuit board and custom 3x3 pin array, with the corner pins unpopulated.




Pin array fits here...




...and soldered in place.




A batch of 32.




The thermistors fit in 3 corners, but in this position they are too low.
The thermistor bodies must be soldered in place above the surface of the board.




Spacers to establish the correct thermistor 'stand off' height.




This is a fixture to hold the IICE Air board in place, and to provide clearance from the vice jaws.




The Air board and thermistors sitting upside down in the fixture.
You can see the thermistor bodies are now spaced some distance from the board.




In the vice...




...and soldered.




Correct thermistor stand off height.




Next up is the preparation of the waterproof enclosure for the jumper pins. Next group of pics.


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Poolside screwed with this post 10-23-2012 at 01:57 AM
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:30 PM   #2899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
I though I would document a build process start to finish.

I'll see if I can't get some captions on these later.

To be continued...



looks like a slow teedious process...
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:33 PM   #2900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
I see your post up there BMWzenrider. I'll get to it after I finish with Wattner's questions.


Bueller???

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Old 05-31-2012, 11:39 PM   #2901
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Well BMWzenrider, I am no Bueller, but I would like to basically just post up what I wrote to you, here so that others who might want to know more about how having the IICE Air on a 1150GS DMC sidecar performs.

This starts with the question on what has been my experience with the IICE Air on my Hack. Here is my altered answer made for better public consumption:

To tell the truth I had a 37:11 FD gear swap and a sintered clutch put in at the same time as the IICE Air. So some of the bang I feel is the ability to start on a steep hill with a full load and just crawl up the hill if I want. I can't tell you how good that feels! I just love the 37:11 on my 6 speed transmission. I can still do 90 with a full load.

I can tell you that it starts really well now. Every time. I have only killed it when it is was a cold start about 2 times and I attribute that to not having the new sintered clutch bedded in yet. It used to be that when it died cold, that I couldn't start it right back up with out it flooding a bit. Now I can get it started right up. My GS is a cold starting bike and now, for whatever reason, it starts and idles great. Over 117,000 sMiles and counting. (not all with the hack though)

With low RPM and a constant (as my hand can be) throttle, it's smoother now than before. I can feel a smoothness in the acceleration that was not there before. It feels stronger maybe? And I am not talking about the FD gears, I'm talking about when I make little changes in the throttle, I can feel it as a smoother transition. 1st gear and just idling along is now fun! I unplugged it this last weekend and it surged when I rode the same way on the same road at the same speed. If I had been riding it as I normaly do, (Hard as hell)I didn't really have a surging issue per se, but under low rpm and a higher gear than I should have been in, I could feel a slight surging. It never bothered me until I got the Hack installed. Is it the extra weight? More friction with the car tire conversion? I don't know. And to tell the truth, I don't really care. It runs and performs better than stock and that is what is important to me.

A blind man could hook it up. Heck, I have a TBI and CRPS and on Morphine 24/7 and I even figured it out. It's crazy how flipping easy this mod is for our bikes/hacks.

I used to race, and I am very good at throttle control. I know how to be smooth AND fast. And I think because of that I can feel the subtle changes that a lot of people I know don't. If a person was a bit jerky with the throttle they might not get as much of the feeling, but I feel that it would still be doing what it is supposed to be doing. And as each module comes out, I think we will start to see how it all works together, better.

Is this something that will blow your socks off? Nope, not going to happen. If you are looking for some subtle changes, like maybe better starting, less or smoother surging issues and/or smoother as you roll on the throttle. Well then, take the leap. More things are coming down the pike and I for one hope to be able to see them all come to life. If not, then I hope the next person who gets my rig will understand what it is and gets to enjoy it as much as I did. I guess what I am trying to say is that, this is just the start. Though this can be used as a stand alone part, the parts coming after will make it all work even better. I vote get one if you haven't, there will always be a buyer for it if you don't like it.

I sound like a salesmen for Poolside! LOL I'm not in anyway. I am just a satisfied customer.

I am glad you got 2 of them BMWzenrider. I personally don't think you will be disappointed.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:17 AM   #2902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post




To be continued...

I think I just got wet!....

I'll go get cleaned up and come back and ask my question later.
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I tell it what it wants to hear, and it does what I want it to do. I made that Motronic my bitch. Poolside


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Old 06-06-2012, 07:56 AM   #2903
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Laugh Uhhhhhhhhhhh

That "got wet" comment sure calmed things down, eh?

Which begs the question...is KCDakar a guy or a gal?

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Old 06-06-2012, 09:52 AM   #2904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
I have put in a BoosterPlug and run an AFR gauge during Closed Loop operation--there was no difference and none expected since the O2 controls the fueling to a ratio of 14.7:1. With the O2 sensor disconnected, the mixture was richened 6% as claimed because the device altered the temp sensor signal such that the Motronic measured a temperature 20C colder than actual and richens the mixture accordingly. Most Oilheads are in Closed Loop operation about half the time. I would expect the same results with an Iice Air set at 20C. See post #82 on this page, http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...=749080&page=6.

I don't know what a dyno run would show, maybe not much since dyno runs are usually made on intertial dynomometer with the throttle wide open for the whole "pull". The Motronic already uses a pretty rich mixture at WOT.

thank you, and yes I agree on the dyno, but if someone knows how to use one for tuning and not just flat out max hp gains/readings, you could see real results, we used dnos for performance tuing , and they can be very useful at various rpm ranges under load and not just to see what the max HP is
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:59 AM   #2905
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Wink Is part 2 for sale yet?

been away from the forums fer awhile.
Is the next piece of the air/cool set ready for orders.
If so, where to get in line?
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:51 PM   #2906
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can't refuse a gizmo

Orederd one a few days ago...
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:57 PM   #2907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
I though I would document a build process start to finish.

If you have any questions, PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THE ENTIRE RUN OF PICTURES.  Thank you.



Correct thermistor stand off height.




To be continued...
I did not realize there were actual thermistor involved...
I had been "assuming" (... yes I know... ) that you were applying an offset to the voltage curve of the existing thermistor. Since the IICE does have "real" thermistors in it ... would it not behoove users to place the IICE such that there was some airflow around the device?

Thanks!
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:38 PM   #2908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
I did not realize there were actual thermistor involved...
I had been "assuming" (... yes I know... ) that you were applying an offset to the voltage curve of the existing thermistor. Since the IICE does have "real" thermistors in it ... would it not behoove users to place the IICE such that there was some airflow around the device?

Thanks!
From post #1

Does the location of the sensor make a difference?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15438749

Here's what BoosterPlug says about sensor location:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=18

More on sensor location:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15452060
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15453444


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Old 06-06-2012, 04:15 PM   #2909
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Thanks JJ.... I'm leaving it alone and getting a ...
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:38 PM   #2910
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Gawd I Hate To Ask..But Of Course I Will..

PS and JJ,

What is the best WAG when the Cool and the Smooth will be offered? Even a year will do. I know, I know this question has been a bane of your existence for months if not years.. But after a few Bowmores I gotta ask!

In the mean time I will ride the shit out of my bike and enjoy every second...life is good.

You guys have got to get up here to NE Oregon and shed the tendrils...as we say up here, you are welcome at our campfire.. it may not be heaven but you can see it from here...

Now where is my glass....................................Bothy Band calls.
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