What's your gear philosophy? - Page 3

levain · 06-09-2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiji

I do what this guy does. I get about a year before I start getting the itch for the next suit, but hopefully it will change. I try to get a good deal on everything I buy, and I tend to buy a lot, much to the dismay of my better half.

It's cheaper than sports cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiji

Hopefully my current suit will keep me occupied for a little longer though....

What's the fun in that my brother from another mother?

Ceri JC · 06-10-2012, 02:01 AM

"Buy the best* you can afford." <- My philosophy.

*'Best' doesn't necessarily mean most expensive; it just means the thing that suits your needs best. A vented mesh jersey isn't expensive, but might be better than a £1000 jacket, if you only ride in the desert. My £20 bike cover is better than my £70 one and I regret buying the more expensive of the two.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

ph0rk · 06-10-2012, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levain

What's the fun in that my brother from another mother?

Eventually, when you realize manufacturers are still making the same stupid mistakes in the same price bracket it gets a bit old.

I think that like many things, there is sort of a life cycle to it - eventually the thrill of trying new things wears off a bit and you realize that you'd probably rather just settle so you can devote brain time to something else. Or, you can climb higher along the price diminishing returns curve but you'll just be more bummed a few months or a year later.

Case in point: Just when I thought rev'it had decided to stop sucking, they copy Olympia's fit philosophy. Great. I'm this close to just ordering a generic cheap mesh jacket for the job and just not paying attention to it anymore. If it is going to suck, it may as well cost accordingly.

Apparently Firstgear is out of the nice jacket game, too. Maybe I just need to fatten up so I can fit into the dreck they sell in the States.

AceRider01 · 06-10-2012, 07:43 AM

Cheap and useless gears cost you in the long term, fashion orientated and well designed but no verified crash performance gear will cost you a lot now and cost you even more when u need it the most.

Internet research: scanning through a lot mass hysteria "information" hoping to discover some real analysis- At the end it's easy ti get swept by the mass hysteria yourself.

If you read through enough scientific tests as to crash capability, critically analyses its design and fit for your purpose and tested its fitment, you realise there is nothing out there that's good enough let alone at a price you consider value for money.

At the end, you realise your gear philosophy is just that - manufacturers realises the majority buys on price, fashion and impulse - nobody design any gears on the correct principles - you compromise on your ideal and that's your new philosophy.

ph0rk · 06-10-2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceRider01

If you read through enough scientific tests as to crash capability

What tests?

Wuwei · 06-10-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRider01
If you read through enough scientific tests as to crash capability

Quote:

What tests?

Exactly! What "scientific" tests. About the closest thing I know of are the Sharp helmet ratings, but most of those helmets are European ones, and it is unclear whether or not we get the same helmet in the USA even if it is the same model. Besides, crash variables are infinite, so you can have on full race leathers and a top-end race helmet and still get killed because you hit your head on something when you're sliding. Frankly, I feel that sheer protection is further down my list after comfort, convenience, and functionality.

Snapper · 06-10-2012, 02:30 PM

I vary depending upon how long the article should last.

I have Hein Gericke leather suit I bought from in the early 80s that's still in great shape, but no integrated armor back then. Picked up a Vansons leather suit a couple of years ago that should easily last for the rest of my riding career only at risk of becoming obsolete, again, by new armor technology. Also have an Aerostich Roadcrafter that should last a decade or two with maybe a refurb.... don't mind spend on these suits.

Gloves, helmet and boots seem to only last about 3-5 yrs for me, so I only buy middle of the road stuff. Can't see spending 600-700 on a Schuberth, or 200-300 on Held gloves, guess because I can't imagine they'll last a decade or more... at a minimum, the foam starts breaking down on any helmet. I might agree great boots could last a really long time, only needing to be resoled, maybe something like Aerostich's Combat boots, but I have a narrow foot and so I take what I can fit.

BTW, I average about 10k per yr.

AceRider01 · 06-10-2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuwei

Exactly! What "scientific" tests. About the closest thing I know of are the Sharp helmet ratings, but most of those helmets are European ones, and it is unclear whether or not we get the same helmet in the USA even if it is the same model. Besides, crash variables are infinite, so you can have on full race leathers and a top-end race helmet and still get killed because you hit your head on something when you're sliding. Frankly, I feel that sheer protection is further down my list after comfort, convenience, and functionality.

"Scientific Test" includes CE test for motorcycle gear EN 13595; most of RiDE mags test (close resemblance to CE Tests).

Yes crash variables are infinite, that should not stop standardised tests being conducted on them to test their protective capability. Otherwise, what's the point of wearing any protective gear because someone will always be able to show you a real life incidence where a rider lacking in XYZ protective gear survive some horrific accident.

things like comfort and fit are easily tested by the potential wearer, whereas things like crash capability cannot be easily tested in the shop.

dirt donkey · 06-11-2012, 12:22 AM

i have a set of gear for the road bike and a different set for the Wr250R. Getting a Triumph Tiger 800xc so now i am in the market for adventure gear.... Like the Klim gortex stuff, but pricey for what you get. Also it seems that they try to justify their price by having all these pocket compartments for various things in their jackets. I just want a basic jacket in the end? Thinking about using one of my Goretex ski jackets (paid for already) and then when i can afford it i will get something better.

I might look on Craigslist and see if i can find someone who is getting rid of their recent Adventure riding clothing. Jacket and clothing gear usually go very cheap...

Being a cheapskate i try to stretch my motorcycle budget, so used gear is fine and closeouts are good too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CafeRacer99

Part of my problem is I live in the desert, but I want to ride into the mountains and do some off-road stuff sometimes. I want to buy one set of gear, but there is no one set of gear for commuting daily in the desert and occasional rides into the mountains (IMO.)

It was easier when I lived in the mountains and rode there every day, obviously. But then again I only rode cafe bikes then. No off-road needs.

I'm pretty much decided on two or three sets of gear, but I don't like it. It's an inelegant solution.

ph0rk · 06-11-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceRider01

"Scientific Test" includes CE test for motorcycle gear EN 13595; most of RiDE mags test (close resemblance to CE Tests).

Yes crash variables are infinite, that should not stop standardised tests being conducted on them to test their protective capability. Otherwise, what's the point of wearing any protective gear because someone will always be able to show you a real life incidence where a rider lacking in XYZ protective gear survive some horrific accident.

things like comfort and fit are easily tested by the potential wearer, whereas things like crash capability cannot be easily tested in the shop.

Those are typically impact tests only, and only for the armor.

What we'd really need is for someone to start dumping 150-200 lb crash test dummies wearing gear out of a pickup truck travelling 55-80 mph, coupled with lab abrasion, tear, tumble, seam strength and impact tests.

Truth is there really isn't an accepted standard for these tests, and if there were it would cost a full suit or two to get certified. I'd be all for it and would sure as hell pay more for a high-scoring suit.

Wuwei · 06-11-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Those are typically impact tests only, and only for the armor.

What we'd really need is for someone to start dumping 150-200 lb crash test dummies wearing gear out of a pickup truck travelling 55-80 mph, coupled with lab abrasion, tear, tumble, seam strength and impact tests.

Agree with that. I've also noted that in accident studies it isn't clear that what many of us would consider better gear is necessarily better. For example, that big Australian study concluded that wearing any type of over-the-ankle boots was sufficient as wearing motorcycle-specific boots didn't correlate with less injuries. It is tough to develop "scientific" tests that accurately mimic real world accident conditions.

gbmaz · 06-11-2012, 12:49 PM

I generally research the crap out of everything and decide to go with the best.....then end up buying the slightly cheaper one that my wife will let me have.

I think this cartoon explains a lot:

AceRider01 · 06-11-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph0rk

Those are typically impact tests only, and only for the armor.

What we'd really need is for someone to start dumping 150-200 lb crash test dummies wearing gear out of a pickup truck travelling 55-80 mph, coupled with lab abrasion, tear, tumble, seam strength and impact tests.

EN 1621-1:1997 and EN 1621-2:2003 are standards of impact protectors

EN13595 is the standard for impact abrasion for motorcycle clothing itself - essential guide here:http://www.satrappeguide.com/EN13595.php

To get CE approved clothing you really need to look to Europe. Here is a list compiled by a fellow inmate:
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=783126

funhunter63 · 06-11-2012, 11:35 PM

I research until I think I know something and then buy something impulsively. Maybe not he best approach but it seems to work fairly well.

jtw000 · 06-12-2012, 01:43 AM

I have an approach to life of employing a kind of organised chaos. In my experience the most expensive and cheapest options are usually terrible value. I rate on the importance of the item, do an acceptable level of research so I don't buy anything totally useless and then usually go and try it on, check it out and then buy it cheaper online. With my jacket I had a list of criteria, it had to be good in the heat, waterproof, armoured and affordable. I got a great deal on a BMW jacket, did a little homework about which ones to go for and which were rubbish (most were rubbish) and got a £400 jacket for £140 on ebay, brand new surplus stock from a dealer up north. It leaks terribly and got dirty fast. So much for research. I did two big tours last year. The first with £10 boots from a warehouse sale and £200 goretex boots on the second. Guess which ones held up better?
My helmet, bought on a whim, it was cheap and the specs were good. It's been ok, not great. If it got bolted to the bike, the research was far more extensive.

06-10-2012, 02:01 AM	#32
Ceri JC UK GSer Joined: Sep 2009 Location: All over, usually Wales or England Oddometer: 2,342	"Buy the best* you can afford." <- My philosophy. *'Best' doesn't necessarily mean most expensive; it just means the thing that suits your needs best. A vented mesh jersey isn't expensive, but might be better than a £1000 jacket, if you only ride in the desert. My £20 bike cover is better than my £70 one and I regret buying the more expensive of the two. Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express __________________ I like my bike because I can overtake 4x4s down farm tracks with a week's worth of shopping on the back.

06-10-2012, 02:30 PM	#37
Snapper Beastly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2003 Location: Fairfield County, CT Oddometer: 2,275	I vary depending upon how long the article should last. I have Hein Gericke leather suit I bought from in the early 80s that's still in great shape, but no integrated armor back then. Picked up a Vansons leather suit a couple of years ago that should easily last for the rest of my riding career only at risk of becoming obsolete, again, by new armor technology. Also have an Aerostich Roadcrafter that should last a decade or two with maybe a refurb.... don't mind spend on these suits. Gloves, helmet and boots seem to only last about 3-5 yrs for me, so I only buy middle of the road stuff. Can't see spending 600-700 on a Schuberth, or 200-300 on Held gloves, guess because I can't imagine they'll last a decade or more... at a minimum, the foam starts breaking down on any helmet. I might agree great boots could last a really long time, only needing to be resoled, maybe something like Aerostich's Combat boots, but I have a narrow foot and so I take what I can fit. BTW, I average about 10k per yr. __________________ Lateral G Junkie Fear Deer

06-11-2012, 12:49 PM	#42
gbmaz Power Newb Joined: Oct 2009 Location: Los Alamos, NM Oddometer: 273	I generally research the crap out of everything and decide to go with the best.....then end up buying the slightly cheaper one that my wife will let me have. I think this cartoon explains a lot: __________________ George Marsden Los Alamos, NM '06 Suzuki DR650

06-11-2012, 11:35 PM	#44
funhunter63 Funhunter63 Joined: Feb 2011 Location: Wichita, KS Oddometer: 39	reasearch and then buy impulsively I research until I think I know something and then buy something impulsively. Maybe not he best approach but it seems to work fairly well.

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06-10-2012, 07:43 AM	#34
AceRider01 Fully Loaded Joined: Oct 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia Oddometer: 474	Cheap and useless gears cost you in the long term, fashion orientated and well designed but no verified crash performance gear will cost you a lot now and cost you even more when u need it the most. Internet research: scanning through a lot mass hysteria "information" hoping to discover some real analysis- At the end it's easy ti get swept by the mass hysteria yourself. If you read through enough scientific tests as to crash capability, critically analyses its design and fit for your purpose and tested its fitment, you realise there is nothing out there that's good enough let alone at a price you consider value for money. At the end, you realise your gear philosophy is just that - manufacturers realises the majority buys on price, fashion and impulse - nobody design any gears on the correct principles - you compromise on your ideal and that's your new philosophy.

06-12-2012, 01:43 AM	#45
jtw000 Survivor Joined: May 2009 Oddometer: 391	I have an approach to life of employing a kind of organised chaos. In my experience the most expensive and cheapest options are usually terrible value. I rate on the importance of the item, do an acceptable level of research so I don't buy anything totally useless and then usually go and try it on, check it out and then buy it cheaper online. With my jacket I had a list of criteria, it had to be good in the heat, waterproof, armoured and affordable. I got a great deal on a BMW jacket, did a little homework about which ones to go for and which were rubbish (most were rubbish) and got a £400 jacket for £140 on ebay, brand new surplus stock from a dealer up north. It leaks terribly and got dirty fast. So much for research. I did two big tours last year. The first with £10 boots from a warehouse sale and £200 goretex boots on the second. Guess which ones held up better? My helmet, bought on a whim, it was cheap and the specs were good. It's been ok, not great. If it got bolted to the bike, the research was far more extensive.