The Perfect Adventure Bike

[Mr Grumpy]

If you're looking for something reliable & rugged that will do just about anything, the military have usually had it built at some point.
That goes for trucks, 4x4s, bikes, hovercraft, whatever.

Armstrong MT 500.

[Jud]

Honestly, the above {the KLR with the Ninja twin engine} is nearly perfect and Kawasaki should be whipped for not building it considering it would be a parts bin exercise for the most part which would keep the R&D costs down

My only want for the above would be for Kawasaki to revise the tranny ratios to include a tall, overdrive 6th gear so you could gear it for rough stuff or loaded down yet still have the gearing to run 80mph on the interstate. Oh, and add a good set of USD forks with modern brakes and spend some R&D time on weight reduction and keeping what weight is there, as low as possible. If not, still cool with what would be a bike that would still weigh in at less {I think 425-450lbs is entirely doable} than my DL650, would have a longer fuel range, better suspension and a 21/17 spoked wheel combo. While at it, do a bit of poking and stroking to get some more displacement, not for more HP so much as more torque. A 700-750cc twin with a wide ratio tranny based off the Versys/Ninja be perfect IMO but if not, no biggie as it's already a nice engine.

Nice fuel range, decent suspension and front brakes wouldn't add alot of cost and neither would a nice wide ratio tranny. No electronic BS to add complexity and this would be dead simple and reliable and I'm betting the whole thing could be sold a roughly a 9-10K$ price point. It would offer a nice "Big Four" alternative to the Tiger and KTM. Yes, the above would be my dream bike and it's a serious pisser that Kawasaki won't get off their asses and build it.

[WillDieSoon]

My Wee has done everything I have ever asked of it, but it is a heavy pig and a bitch to pick up when it takes a nap. I have taken it places that would make some shake their heads and call me crazy (I am a little).

For me, if it had a few more inches of ground clearance it would keep me from wanting 800XC, but that is just me.

[Jud]

Originally Posted by WillDieSoon

My Wee has done everything I have ever asked of it, but it is a heavy pig and a bitch to pick up when it takes a nap. I have taken it places that would make some shake their heads and call me crazy (I am a little).

For me, if it had a few more inches of ground clearance it would keep me from wanting 800XC, but that is just me.

Adding a couple more inches isn't all that hard nor does it cost a heck of alot. I've done it and while it does go along way to making it a better adventure bike, it by no means making it perfect,,,,,,,,,,,,,, far from it. Every inch more ground clearance you get makes an already top heavy bike ever more so. I originally had it over two inches taller, nearly 3 inches but now I've lowered it a smidge and I'm sitting at around 1.5-2 inches taller because it was just too much, too high and I did mods to the seat to gain back alot of my reach to the ground.

It needs a wider transmission spread because even though I'm running 14/18 and will soon be running 14/50 gearing {how many Stroms running that combo?},,,,, it's just getting low enough for the rough stuff but now I'm turning something like 7.5-8K at cruising speeds. A taller 6th would go a long ways to fix that and for Suzuki, that would be an easy and relatively cheap fix but nope, they are totally deaf. I also think they could redesign the tank to hold the gas lower and then maybe add another .5 gallon or so. If a no go on the .5 gallon more, no biggie but I do wish they could make what's there sit lower. The exhaust needs to be routed differently and that would result in a smidge more ground clearance {only a smidge because shortly thereafter the shock linkage is the next thing that hangs low and that's not's so easy a fix} without a higher Cg but once again, a cheap fix for Suzuki but nope, deaf again. Add a inch or two of clearance and travel, make the tranny have a wider spread, add a 21 inch front option and lower the Cg by as many means possible. Yea, that would rock,,,, it would be a great bike and is entirely a feasible thing for Suzuki to do. It's a bike I would buy and I honestly think Suzuki could offer it as a second model along side the more civil model like BMW does to good effect.

I think the KLR with the Ninja twin and the cheap, easy mods I mentioned would be better still, is more easily attained and would be cheaper. Why Kawi doesn't do it is beyond me. Like I said, I would dole out 10K$ for one in a hurry.

Nope, we get 1200cc Crosstours, NC700Xs, Versys and Stroms from the big three. Suzuki had an opportunity to really address some of these things that would have really made the Strom a better adv bike but nope, they screwed the pooch. The Yammy Tenere is a good step but there needs to be a smaller, lighter, simpler and less exspensive version.

[vicster]

Hell, when I was shopping, I couldn't believe Kawasaki didn't even take the simple step of putting a 19" front on the Versys.
Now that they've moved the KLR more towards the street end of things, putting the 650 twin in there seems even more natural. It's not like the industry doesn't have a long, rich history of parts bin model building.

[ec90t]

Originally Posted by vicster

Hell, when I was shopping, I couldn't believe Kawasaki didn't even take the simple step of putting a 19" front on the Versys.

Why? Even with the 17" front it's a better off-road bike than the wee. While tire selection isn't as great, what's available is quite capable.

I've read lots on here about titanium frames. Bad choice. Way too brittle and fatigue cracks easily. The best weight/ strength/ size material is still good old fashion Chrome-Moly. A properly designed frame will be both lite weight and strong. The added benefit is it will still be compact. Go look at an older Duc trellis frame.

[Quedok]

Someone has already built the perfect adventurer bike. The Ducati Terra Mostro. Based on the Monster 695 with dual sport front forks, extended rear swingarm, bash plate and about 80 hp. Cost was about $16,990 if I remember right. Good highway manners, able to keep up with an XR600 in the dirt (so they say) and 150 lbs lighter than an R series BMW GS.
Too bad they aren't in business any more. The price was probably it's downfall.

[MillCreek]

Originally Posted by ec90t

I've read lots on here about titanium frames. Bad choice. Way too brittle and fatigue cracks easily. The best weight/ strength/ size material is still good old fashion Chrome-Moly.

I am curious to know why this is for a titanium motorcycle frame. I have two titanium-frame bicycles (mountain and road). I know that a lot of aircraft parts are built of titanium. Is it the increased vibration of a motorcycle frame and/or the increased cost?

[ec90t]

Originally Posted by MillCreek

I am curious to know why this is for a titanium motorcycle frame. I have two titanium-frame bicycles (mountain and road). I know that a lot of aircraft parts are built of titanium. Is it the increased vibration of a motorcycle frame and/or the increased cost?

Titanium bicycle frames didn't do very well years ago. A couple of bicycle manufacturers went belly-up partially because of this. I imagine what they are using now is quite a bit softer so it doesn't work harden as bad.

The titanium they use on planes are in areas where there is great concentration of heat and relatively low stress loads. Otherwise they use exotic aluminum alloys that are cheaper and easier to machine.

The vibes going through the frame of a motorcycle would render titanium crazy brittle in no time. They use to offer titanium subframes for race bikes years ago, but even in that form they broke frequently and were hard to repair. The contration of vibes around the welds were always the problem areas.

Weigh a trellis frame from a 851/888 Ducati. You would be surprised at how light it is.

If you want the cost is no option for the lightest weight chassis, carbon fibre is king. It never work hardens and is crazy stiff. You can easily mold it into whatever shape you want and just install metallic inserts at the attachment points.

[vicster]

Originally Posted by ec90t

Why? Even with the 17" front it's a better off-road bike than the wee. While tire selection isn't as great, what's available is quite capable.

Because, imho a 19 is better off road than a 17 and there are a lot of dual sport tire choices in the 19" size. Plus, again imo, it would have been a statement from Kawi to separate it from their other 650 choices. I know the 17 front is what stopped me from buying the Versys when I was shopping, I ended up with the DR so no regrets on my part, but Kawi lost a sale.

[ec90t]

Originally Posted by vicster

Because, imho a 19 is better off road than a 17 and there are a lot of dual sport tire choices in the 19" size. Plus, again imo, it would have been a statement from Kawi to separate it from their other 650 choices. I know the 17 front is what stopped me from buying the Versys when I was shopping, I ended up with the DR so no regrets on my part, but Kawi lost a sale.

If you ended up with a DR then the Versys was never a real contender. If you would have ended up with a DL, then your statement would had more credibility. A KLR and a DR are competing bikes, not a KLE and DR.

[MillCreek]

Originally Posted by ec90t

Titanium bicycle frames didn't do very well years ago. A couple of bicycle manufacturers went belly-up partially because of this. I imagine what they are using now is quite a bit softer so it doesn't work harden as bad.

I bet you are referring to the CP or perhaps the 6/4 alloys. Almost all the bike frames I see now are 3/2.5.

http://www.habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tubes
What's the deal with all the different kinds of titanium?

3Al/2.5V Habanero frames are built from 3Al/2.5V titanium alloy, or titanium alloyed with 3% Aluminum and 2.5% Vanadium. This is an ideal material to build a frame from, since it has an incredible strength to weight ratio, but is still resilient enough to withstand considerable flex without permanent damage. This is the material almost all of the highest quality titanium bike frames are made from, and is a mainstay in the aerospace industry because of its impressive properties. 6Al/4V This alloy (as you'd probably guess by now) is comprised of titanium alloyed with 6% aluminum and 4% Vanadium. There are a lot of claims made about the strength of 6/4, but most of it is based on "textbook" numbers for sheet stock, not tubing. Until recently, 6/4 bike frames were all made from seamed tubing, that is, flat sheets which have been rolled into a tube and welded. Some still are. The problem is that the weld reduces the strength and resilience of the tube. In addition, 6/4 can only take about half the elongation that 3/2.5 can before it's permanently damaged. In the final analysis, you end up with a bike that's at best just a little stronger, but maybe less able to absorb punishment - plus it'll be a LOT more expensive. We think it makes more sense to save the weight elsewhere in the bike, where it won't cost so much per gram.
CP - or - Commercially Pure titanium. There are many grades of this material being used to build "low end" titanium bike frames (kind of an oxymoron, huh?). CP titanium is easier to machine than the more exotic alloys, and it is even more resilient than 3/2.5 (it can "stretch" more without failing). However, it doesn't have the strength of 3/2.5 or 6/4 alloy, both of which are at least twice as strong as most grades of CP titanium.

[ec90t]

Originally Posted by MillCreek

I bet you are referring to the CP or perhaps the 6/4 alloys. Almost all the bike frames I see now are 3/2.5.

http://www.habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tubes
What's the deal with all the different kinds of titanium?

3Al/2.5V Habanero frames are built from 3Al/2.5V titanium alloy, or titanium alloyed with 3% Aluminum and 2.5% Vanadium. This is an ideal material to build a frame from, since it has an incredible strength to weight ratio, but is still resilient enough to withstand considerable flex without permanent damage. This is the material almost all of the highest quality titanium bike frames are made from, and is a mainstay in the aerospace industry because of its impressive properties. 6Al/4V This alloy (as you'd probably guess by now) is comprised of titanium alloyed with 6% aluminum and 4% Vanadium. There are a lot of claims made about the strength of 6/4, but most of it is based on "textbook" numbers for sheet stock, not tubing. Until recently, 6/4 bike frames were all made from seamed tubing, that is, flat sheets which have been rolled into a tube and welded. Some still are. The problem is that the weld reduces the strength and resilience of the tube. In addition, 6/4 can only take about half the elongation that 3/2.5 can before it's permanently damaged. In the final analysis, you end up with a bike that's at best just a little stronger, but maybe less able to absorb punishment - plus it'll be a LOT more expensive. We think it makes more sense to save the weight elsewhere in the bike, where it won't cost so much per gram.
CP - or - Commercially Pure titanium. There are many grades of this material being used to build "low end" titanium bike frames (kind of an oxymoron, huh?). CP titanium is easier to machine than the more exotic alloys, and it is even more resilient than 3/2.5 (it can "stretch" more without failing). However, it doesn't have the strength of 3/2.5 or 6/4 alloy, both of which are at least twice as strong as most grades of CP titanium.

I wasn't sure of the alloy numbers and the like, but you have it all right there. Thanks for the post!

[Irish John]

Originally Posted by Maxacceleration

Its amazing a factory has not figured this out.
I think a DR Suzuki with the GS 500 air/oil cooled motor could be a good build up too.
The Kawasaki KLE 500 was close too (never available in the US), with some additional tweaking...

Maybe call it the Super KLR. Use this styling and the engine from the Versys

[Bart1]

Originally Posted by Irish John

Maybe call it the Super KLR. Use this styling and the engine from the Versys

With all these KLR's being fitted with a Versys engine I was thinking of a Versys engine in the KLE500 frame, it should be a easier swap than the KLR.........