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Old 06-25-2012, 11:11 PM   #16
Brodovitch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Pig View Post
Wouldn't a Beta based bike make more sense since it's all from the Florence area?
I think so, but Beta are not so keen on rallies yet, plus the guy developing their rally kits is Boano... I think Bordone want to go forth and do their own exclusive thing. Wasn't Botturi on a TM a few months back? Either the ADDC or Qatar round, I don't remember the specifics, but he withdrew with a mechanical IIRC
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
I think so, but Beta are not so keen on rallies yet, plus the guy developing their rally kits is Boano... I think Bordone want to go forth and do their own exclusive thing. Wasn't Botturi on a TM a few months back? Either the ADDC or Qatar round, I don't remember the specifics, but he withdrew with a mechanical IIRC
It was Qatar where he rode the TM.

Viladoms told me they hope to ride their new bike in Egypt in October...
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
I think so, but Beta are not so keen on rallies yet, plus the guy developing their rally kits is Boano... I think Bordone want to go forth and do their own exclusive thing. Wasn't Botturi on a TM a few months back? Either the ADDC or Qatar round, I don't remember the specifics, but he withdrew with a mechanical IIRC
Does the Bordone Ferrari outfit have the engineering/machining/manufacturing resources, workshop facilities, techical & engineering personel behind it, and (not the least) financial backing to build their own bike (including engine)? This is a BIG task to do all the R&D to get a competitive engine/chassis/rallybike package built and developed, then up to speed. Even fully budgeted and supported "factory" teams have a full time job to bring a project like this to fruition within 12 months.

When they first announced the B/F project a year or there abouts ago... that the team bikes they "unvieled" were just re-liveried KTM 450 RR's was no (real) surprise... given the short time to establish and prepare the team structure. When Chaleco came on board over from Aprilia, and they announced the continued use of the Austrian bikes - I (amongst others) thought perhaps they were aligning themselves to be the "satelite" factory KTM outfit for the future. Certainly using the material and experience of the Mattighoffen product as a base for their teams establishment season was a smart move... in terms of results and proven product behind them.

But these latest indications seem to reinforce the long running rumours/industry hype, that they WILL be pursuing the goal of developing their own bike.

Speculation about the engines is a key aspect here I think. While engineering their own chassis/fuel cell platform is not that major of a headache for a team with the resources and budget... and the majority of suspension componentry, wheels, braking components, navigation equipment, rally accessories etc. are merely OEM manufacturer/catalogue items in many respects...

But, to design/build a powerplant from scratch is something that requires a whole different level of commitment (resources, engineering, R&D time). I'm not saying 100% that they haven't done so... But it seems like a helluva project to take on... just to field a competitive team of five or six rally bikes... even if they offered "kit" bikes for sale to other riders/teams... the relatively low unit numbers/economies of scale would seem to make it inequitable it terms of investment required.

So that leaves us with the "which engine will they use"" specultation...?

KTM...? They have a developed and proven 450 Rally powerplant that has been assembled using a hybrid of components from their various Sxf/EXC partslists... but for B/F to go to all this trouble to develop a bike as a new host for the same powerplant... seems like a lot of work.

What else...? TM... Beta...? both have been suggested (rumoured), but as both of these manufacturers also only offer enduro/mx type engines from their existing model ranges... any "rally" motor/development thereof from either of these platforms is still going to require some significant R&D to transmission, coolong system, oil/cooling system etc. to get the "reliability/service interval" specifications needed to compete at rally competition.

Or will B/F resurect one of the italian motor designs from some other manufacturer? (VOR and/or Vertimati... or a Huskvarna/BMW derivative perhaps ?)

I am sure there are many who are really keen to see what this new "revolutionary" rally bike is gonna be...
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:57 AM   #19
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Yeah i don't think they will produce an engine from scratch, my phrasing was mistaken when I said pursue their own thing, what I actually had in mind is that they grab a 450 off TM's shelf, develop it/tweak it (add oil capacity, longevity tests etc) and then plant it in a more stable, own-design chassis and do their own set up regarding fuel cells & pumps, nav set-up etc...

I am trying to find more info on TM's recent supermotard campaigns, someone mentioned the other day that they are a very strong outfit and may have even won a few rounds, even a championship
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:20 AM   #20
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Well all I have to say is that it is exciting to have someone else stepping into the game. I think it is good for the sport and us as spectators.

The B/F team certainly did things right at the last dakar and for Chaleco's and Jordi's sakes I hope they really provide them with a formidable weapon whatever its heart may be.

Italian exotica... I hope it runs as sexy as it will probably look.

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Old 06-26-2012, 11:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Well all I have to say is that it is exciting to have someone else stepping into the game. I think it is good for the sport and us as spectators.
+1

The 450cc rule in FIM rallies has levelled/broadened the alternatives for competitive mounts/manufacturers... to date it is KTM, Aprilia and the Husqvarna/BMW/Speedbrain effort who have stepped up at a manufacturer support level, which has been a big plus for the depth of competition in the sport.

The YME/YMF (semi-factory) and WRF/YZF JVO kit alternatives (along with various privateer efforts etc.), as well as a variety of HONDA (CRF/X) incarnation bikes from various semi-privateer teams, have meant that both the team blue and red riders have been represented well over the last couple seasons on rally start lines...

But as there has not been a lot of activity from other japanese or euro manufacturers - apart from the occassional "one off special" here and there... the whole Bordone Ferrari team effort and it's commitment to the project, seems like a great positive step for the sport!
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:10 PM   #22
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Not sure where to put this but it just popped up on Facebook.



From Gas Gas:
Quote:
Os mostramos, en primicia, la Gas Gas con la que haremos el Rally Dakar 2013. Seguimos trabajando en un sueño... http://ow.ly/bPJmP

We show in scoop the Gas Gas bike with which we will do the Dakar Rally 2013. Keep working on a dream...
http://ow.ly/bPJsP
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:22 PM   #23
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Not sure where to put this but it just popped up on Facebook.



From Gas Gas:
SICK..... photoshopped a bit?
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:31 AM   #24
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..... photoshopped a bit?
i don't think so... if they were going to "photoshop" a pre-prod mock up of the bike... you'd think they would put a front guard on it...? and maybe present it in front of a bit more flattering backdrop then an old shed wall?

Body/plastics/fuel cell by JVO, service/logistics provided by Epsilon... powered by the new Gas Gas 450cc engine (so this bike is a genuine Spanish built effort... not a rebadged YME Yamaha WRF as the last two years).

Look's legit enough... another name in the hat!
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:38 AM   #25
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Yup, legit, Loving the rear fuel tank/subframe combination, although it looks like it still needs two pumps on either side of the shock, can';t tell how high the exhaust is on the other side
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:04 AM   #26
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From the Bordone Ferrari website:
...
15 April 2011. A motorbike of the of the Bordone-Ferrari Racing Team lined up on the Qatar Rally reveals the heart of the Bordone-Ferrari Bike. The frame has already shown itself during its first fair race at the Merzouga.
20 May 2011. The Bordone-Ferrari Italian Rally Motorbike prototype ends a long series of tests in Italy, Spain and Tunisia.
31 May 2012. The prototype becomes the final version of the Bordone-Ferrari Italian Rally Motorbike.
7 June 2011. The ultimate line of the motorbike has been chosen among the suggestions of three designers: it's going to be the one elaborated by the architect Luca Mattavelli.
...

You can find the entire "timeline" here.

If, as Brodovitch wrote, Botturi rode a TM a few months ago it is probably that engine the one that this press communication refers to. Hence I'd bet on a TM engine!
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:40 AM   #27
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In fact, their prototype bike can be seen on this pic (under the date "20.05.12"):
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:44 AM   #28
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If you click the main imagine of the homepage at
http://www.bordoneferrari.com/

it should open a zip containing 3 (work in progress) photos of the new beast
http://www.bordoneferrari.com/public...0anteprima.zip
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:15 AM   #29
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Great link Gian, thought I'd post them up for everyone to see









thoughts everyone? I'm not sure about the separate radiator shrouds, a bit too form over function for me...

The rest of the bodywork looks very sleek, loving the huge intake for the oil cooler
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:51 AM   #30
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If, as Brodovitch wrote, Botturi rode a TM a few months ago it is probably that engine the one that this press communication refers to. Hence I'd bet on a TM engine!
There's also the fact that TM have a pretty well-established background of producing 'crate' engines to sell to other people. Whereas I expect going to KTM and saying "I'd like twenty 450RR motors please" may not be too successful.
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