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Old 07-04-2012, 06:34 PM   #61
beechum1
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great history lesson. Thanks Troy.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:38 PM   #62
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Excellent commentary and historical perspective (as per the usual).

Thanks Troy.
Yeah, thanks troy!!
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:46 PM   #63
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Troy...

I salute you sir

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Old 07-05-2012, 04:21 AM   #64
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Thanks Troy - better info than I was hoping for.

Kinda makes me feel guilty at not putting more effort into the question....
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:09 AM   #65
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Thanks Troy! Nice analysis!

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.
1981 Hubert Auriol won the Dakar on a HPN prepared BMW R/80 GS. Now I'm not sure if this was Auriols first attempt at the race nor was HPN a novice at building big bore offroad competition bikes
Indeed it was not, Auriol participated in the first Dakar (1979) on XT500 - 12th overall (mixed classification cars and bikes).

In 1980, there were already 2 BMW 800's enlisted by BMW France (Auriol and Fenouil). Auriol DNF'd and Fenouil finished 5th (overall bikes). The bikes were already prepared by HPN.



Sorry for the off-topic memorabilia: just had a little fun looking that up in http://www.dakardantan.com and http://micapeak.com/bmw/gs/rally/pd1980.htm and wanted to share.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:18 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
BMW had been away from Dakar (at a factory level) in any great way shape or form for a number of years, but during 1998 the BMW brass decided they wanted to once again compete at Dakar and market the F650 single cylinder... as opposed to the boxer motor that had served them so many years. BMW enlisted the services of Richard Schalber to engineer and run a team of F 650 based machines at the 1999 Dakar, which they won with Richard Sainct on the bike... and repeated the feat again in 2000.

So... to the crux of Pete640's question...? Can a newly formed factory team - the likes of the Bordone-Ferrari team, or the recently announced Honda HRC factory effort, take themselves to DAKAR 2013 and take on the the team that is on top of the heap (and has been for a decade) and grab a debut (of sorts) victory?
Troy,

I may be missing part of the point but doesn't it seem like the '99 BMW F650 fits the bill of a "debut" win. No factory-level support for a number of years and then a win with a new bike? I think that scenario most closely matches the question of all the examples given.

BTW, I almost felt like I was reading text from a history book. Do you have a big binder full of rally notes or is this all in your memory? Impressive either way.

- Ken
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:19 AM   #67
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Well done Troy

A little bit of Honda history (since I am bored)

1982 Honda wins its first Dakar with rider Cyril Neveu The win is slightly overlooked by the media hype of Marget Thatchers son getting lost in the desert. Cyril rode an xr550




In 1986 Cyril again won the Dakar, this time on a NXR750. Once again the media spot light was redirected with the passing of the founder of the race (Thierry Sabine) in a heli crash.



1987( Cyril Neveu), 1988 (Cyril neveu) and 1989 (Edi Orioli) all saw Honda at the top of the podium.

Honda bikes have remained a constant in the Dakar and up to 2010 there had been 52 bikes entered. The bikes have come in all shapes and sizes with different companies backing the riders and teams.































Sorry, just random info from the web. Stoked HRC is coming to play
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:36 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by wilkinsonk View Post
Troy,

I may be missing part of the point but doesn't it seem like the '99 BMW F650 fits the bill of a "debut" win. No factory-level support for a number of years and then a win with a new bike? I think that scenario most closely matches the question of all the examples given.

Yeah... kind of... that's exactly the point I was trying to make. Neither Schalber (engineers/team behind the bikes) nor Sainct (winning rider) were greenhorns... but the "team" they formed were on debut... and that's a relevant parallel to what Bordone-Ferrari and HRC Honda will likely be bringing to the table for Dakar 2013... hence the comparison.

BTW, I almost felt like I was reading text from a history book. Do you have a big binder full of rally notes or is this all in your memory? Impressive either way.

- Ken
Nope... no binder full of notes... most of what I write (90%) is basically from memory (often I just ramble away... People who have shared camp fires with me can confirm this ), and sometimes I will refer to the web to confirm some minor detail (dates and records about the early days - pre 1985 - are pretty fuzzy and sometimes hard to verify) - that's where the enthusiasm of some of the other ADV f5 dakar officionados come in handy. Some of the euro forum guys that have followed the sport since many years back - thanks again to fellows like Carlos M, Flood, Gian and others etc. as well as the US mainstays like Doyle and PackMule for what they bring to f5/ADV (We sometimes waffle on via PM's during january like a bunch of old nerds... but the enthusiasm is infectious ).

Personally, I've been a rally/Dakar/Safari-head since about 1985... so along with my own enduro/mx/rally involvement over that time... I dunno why, but much of the trivia stuff has just fastened in there.

Cheers all!
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #69
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Cheers all!
Cheers to you too Troy. Sincere thanks for sharing your Big Dakar Brain with us. It's nice to have this place on the internet where we can share and learn about this "thing" that 99% of our real life friends & family roll their eyes at or say DakWhat?
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #70
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:12 PM   #71
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loving it!

Loving all this speculation for the new teams hitting Dakar this year.. with so many new teams throwing their hat in the ring, and as a Brit, at least 10 riders i can think of that have applied for entry this year, its shaping up to be a cracking future!

Deadly, I had to have a double take looking through your post... as my bike is one of them! Cant wait to hear who gets a ticket this year.. cant be long til news is released now?
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:44 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Nope... no binder full of notes... most of what I write (90%) is basically from memory (often I just ramble away... People who have shared camp fires with me can confirm this ), and sometimes I will refer to the web to confirm some minor detail (dates and records about the early days - pre 1985 - are pretty fuzzy and sometimes hard to verify) - that's where the enthusiasm of some of the other ADV f5 dakar officionados come in handy. Some of the euro forum guys that have followed the sport since many years back - thanks again to fellows like Carlos M, Flood, Gian and others etc. as well as the US mainstays like Doyle and PackMule for what they bring to f5/ADV (We sometimes waffle on via PM's during january like a bunch of old nerds... but the enthusiasm is infectious ).

Personally, I've been a rally/Dakar/Safari-head since about 1985... so along with my own enduro/mx/rally involvement over that time... I dunno why, but much of the trivia stuff has just fastened in there.

Cheers all!
Thanks Troy - a question for you then, when was it the last time a Brit was a focus of a major Dakar challenge, with Honda selecting young Sam, for the reasons that have?
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:05 PM   #73
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Top Brits on Dakar

The last time we had any true British contenders, and by that im going to stretch the basket slightly, would have been John Deacon [best finish 6th], who rode BMW and KTM, before he passed away. Following his lead would have been Patsy Quick [amateur, but KTM did eventually supply 2 bikes for her and Zippy, her co rider], Mick Extance [26th on a Honda 450 in 09] Nick Plumb or Stan Watt [Irish!], all have been essentially privateer efforts, with varying levels of support from the industry.

Aside from these names, there have been a multitude of riders having a go, but I would say all are far from being contenders.

It seems to me, that Sam is the first Brit to be on a full factory deal for the Dakar, which is no mean feat, when you consider how anti motorsport the UK can be. Theres no denying that living in the world's biggest sandpit has to have helped his cause and I wish him every success!
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:10 PM   #74
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That is a handful
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:25 PM   #75
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Boredom strikes

So, it was a bit boring at work tonight, i thought id do a bit of research to put together a list of all Brit finishers in the history of Dakar Moto.. funnily enough the hardest year to find results has proven to be 2011!

Ive always wondered who and how many had done it, having been told somewhere in the region of 20 finishers so far..

YEAR NAME POSITION BIKE
1996 Graham 22 KTM
1996 Morgan 41 Honda
1997 Deacon 17 KTM
1997 Graham 29 KTM
1998 Deacon 8 KTM
1998 Pavey 40 Honda
1998 Craigie 46 CCM
1998 Fitzsimon 49 CCM
1999 Deacon 6 KTM
1999 Maisey 38 KTM
1999 Hague 41 KTM
1999 Graham 42 KTM
1999 Pavey 50 CCM
2000 Hammond 21 KTM
2000 Dehaan 68 KTM
2001 Deacon 6 BMW
2001 Hughes 64 Honda
2002 No Brits finishing
2003 Edmondson 33
2003 Extance 42
2004 Coaker 25
2004 Hague 49 KTM
2005 Extance 48 Honda
2006 Extance 27 Honda
2006 Plumb 78 BMW
2006 Quick 88 KTM
2006 Town 89 KTM
2007 Broome 101 Honda
2007 Malone 106 KTM
2008 NO DAKAR

2009 Extance 26 Honda
2009 Watt 38 KTM
2009 Bounds 54 KTM
2009 Ennis 87 KTM
2009 Buchan 90 KTM
2010 Carlyle 72 KTM
2010 Noone 83 KTM
2010 Jones 87 Yamaha
2011 No Brits finishing














2012 Watt 34 KTM
2012 Younger 96 KTM
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