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Old 06-20-2012, 08:59 PM   #211
MODNROD
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Gday Joel.

Like you I have a "piece of paper" or 10 in the electrickery field. I also need a new battery for my big old ugly bike, standard is a Yuasa YB16, but I'm sick of replacing the things every year or two. I should probably ride more during winter, but taking the old Vmax hotrod down "red grease" slippery goopy clay mud is stooooopid, when I have an old crappy Supra that has a working heater...........so it sits a bit I spose, but still.......*sigh*

Anyway, VERY COOL TESTING MAN!!!! I'm impressed! Like you I prefer to find out how good the stuff is for real (like checking the 10A capacity of a $100 multimeter on a spotlight output line........my son-in-law is still pissed about the smoke coming out, I still giggle about it). I had looked at the "PbEQ" mention on Shorai's website, and thought that something had changed in between the satellite laser ranging I do now, and the Submarine batteries I used to maintain 25 years ago. Nice to know I'm not completely out of touch!

Now, where's that Antigravity listing for a 20cell?

Thanks man.

PS: unless you rekn the 12cell or 16cell would do the job OK? You have to remember it gets cold here sometimes........I think last year I even saw 7*C on my front porch! Lucky I wasn't out there for long........
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:49 AM   #212
cyborg
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Anybody know anything about these batteries? Claim to have a BMS built in.

http://www.earthxmotorsports.com/



They were advertised in this months Dirt Rider mag.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:53 AM   #213
C5!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
The Compufire 55402 is the most popular 3 phase series regulator, lots of people are using them on Aprilias, Triumphs and other bikes with problematic stators.

I think a guy on ADV from Venezuela bought one and was going to install it on his F800GS that kept burning up his rewound stators? Not sure what happened to him.
Still here. the compufire works fine, but I did only 3,000 km on it so far (I have a new Xchallenge to play in Spain ). Time will tell, but looks fine to me, works a lot cooler than the oem regulator, can even touch it with the hand after stopping sometimes. If any interest I could take the idle and running voltages, but I have only a small shitty radioshack voltmeter.

As for this battery testing thread, thanks to Joel, this is great work. Don't worry too much about the youtube visits, I for one is more interested in reading the results and conclusions than actually looking at the experiment.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:04 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5! View Post
Still here. the compufire works fine, but I did only 3,000 km on it so far (I have a new Xchallenge to play in Spain ). Time will tell, but looks fine to me, works a lot cooler than the oem regulator, can even touch it with the hand after stopping sometimes. If any interest I could take the idle and running voltages, but I have only a small shitty radioshack voltmeter.

As for this battery testing thread, thanks to Joel, this is great work. Don't worry too much about the youtube visits, I for one is more interested in reading the results and conclusions than actually looking at the experiment.
cheers
claude
That's encouraging and a good climate for a heat test.
Keep us updated.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:15 AM   #215
RexBuck
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Joel
You again amaze me on the depth of knowledge and effort you add to this forum. Thank you.

Read this thread through and understood some of what you are doing. This is timely for me as I am preparing my 800GS for about 25,000 mile trip to South America. I would like to prepare the bike to make it as durable as possible through a wide variety of terrain, temperatures and altitudes I expect to encounter. Based on other’s experiences, it sounds like the electrical system is one place that could cause some headaches that I would just as soon mitigate before I leave.

Recognizing the OEM battery may not be the most reliable, at this point in time for a trip such as this, would you change the battery to a LiFePO4? I realize your research is not complete yet but, if you were to change it, AntiGravity? Will a 12 cell fit? Would I need to carry a specialized charger? If so, is there one that is fairly compact?

There was a bit of discussion about the regulator. If I understand it correctly, a different regulator may extend the life of the stator. Is that correct? If so, what regulator would be the best to switch to? Any other risks that become a concern if such a change is undertaken?
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:38 PM   #216
JoelWisman OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
Anybody know anything about these batteries? Claim to have a BMS built in.

http://www.earthxmotorsports.com/



They were advertised in this months Dirt Rider mag.
Honestly I don't understand how some of these companies function on so little research.

If and it's a big if, the BMS is reliable and does not heavily reduce the batteries shelf life. AND if the BMS is reliable, it's a good thing.

BUT, go to earthx's website and click on warranty, read the last line....

"Immersion in liquid.", as in, earthx batteries are not warranted against damage caused by immersion in liquid. So I would guess that like Shorai, earthx batteries are not waterproof :(

I've now had 3 Shorai batteries shipped to me that have failed and the cause is water in the battery case.

Shorai advertises for the dirt and adventure segment as well but what their warranty and performance indicate is they are only for the adventure segment that only adventures to Starbucks and only on sunny days.

I ride durring arial flooding and drop my bike on water crossings.

There are three LiFePO4 batteries I am aware of that are waterproof of which none have BMSs and of those Antigravity is the largest and only I have tested. (I have tested others but all except for Antigravity were NOT waterproof)

I would NOT put a battery susceptible to water damage in anything but a sport bike unless you are only a fair weather rider and never intend to cross water.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:55 PM   #217
JoelWisman OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
Joel
You again amaze me on the depth of knowledge and effort you add to this forum. Thank you.

Read this thread through and understood some of what you are doing. This is timely for me as I am preparing my 800GS for about 25,000 mile trip to South America. I would like to prepare the bike to make it as durable as possible through a wide variety of terrain, temperatures and altitudes I expect to encounter. Based on other’s experiences, it sounds like the electrical system is one place that could cause some headaches that I would just as soon mitigate before I leave.

Recognizing the OEM battery may not be the most reliable, at this point in time for a trip such as this, would you change the battery to a LiFePO4? I realize your research is not complete yet but, if you were to change it, AntiGravity? Will a 12 cell fit? Would I need to carry a specialized charger? If so, is there one that is fairly compact?

There was a bit of discussion about the regulator. If I understand it correctly, a different regulator may extend the life of the stator. Is that correct? If so, what regulator would be the best to switch to? Any other risks that become a concern if such a change is undertaken?
25,000 miles! Get the new BMW stator. The MOSFET shunt stator helps a little but only a little. The series regulator a local inmate brought by reduced output by 12% which for me and my auxiliary lighting / heated gear is too much

My testing of batteries will likely never end but I'm 100% satisfied with antigravity and the F800's old low voltage regulator as well as Antigravity being superior to everything else, LiFePO4 and Lead acid, but you have to size it right.

The 12 cell is fine for any normal range of temperatures, but if you want a battery that cranks the bike faster then stock and doesent become a liability when the temperature is below freezing, get the 16 cell which fits with room to spare as does the 20 and 24 cell.

Pack a spare fuel pump and spare injectors, or at least leave part #s with someone who knows the tricks for shipping to whatever countries u will be in and tools / knowledge to change them.

Chech torque on shock bolts and adjust the headset. Lube the forks regularly.

Have fun!
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:47 PM   #218
RexBuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
Have fun!
Yah, I plan on it.

Just to clarify, is the part number for the new stator 12 31 8 524 422?

With the 16 cell AntiGravity battery, I presume I want their Small Case version of that battery? What about the special charger - need to carry one with me?

Again, thank you so much again for your help.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:18 PM   #219
beechum1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
25,000 miles! Get the new BMW stator. The MOSFET shunt stator helps a little but only a little. The series regulator a local inmate brought by reduced output by 12% which for me and my auxiliary lighting / heated gear is too much
you mean this one?

http://motoelectrixcom.myshopify.com/
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:04 PM   #220
JoelWisman OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beechum1 View Post
That's the MOSFET shunt regulator that is the gold standard. Tighter voltage regulation, better voltage set point for AGM and LiFePO4 batteries, no capacity loss and a little more reliable, though the stock K7X regulator has no reliability issues.

It will only get stator temps down a little bit and is not the solution for that problem.

Neither is the series regulator unless you regularly use less then 312 watts and can deal with reducing your maximum output down to 352 watts.


You don't need a special charger for LiFePO4 batteries, you just need to be sure not to charge them beyond 14.7 volts.

With a manual charger, sit with it and manually stop charging when you hit 14.7 volts.

Most automatic chargers work fine but if it's got an automatically engaged desulfate mode, don't use it or watch it and manually terminate charge when 14.7 volts is reached.

I would absolutely bring a multimeter as for batteries or the bike it is the #1 most useful tool.

If I were going seriously far from the power grid, I would bring small solar charger. I wouldn't bother with a purpose built lithium charger except for long term storage.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:10 PM   #221
ebrabaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beechum1 View Post
The owner of ME.....will shortly have a bracket to go with a kit.....that should make it a almost plug and play. He is working hard to offer a ... " plug and play " kit.... but brackets are in the making...... This r/r will charge your battery with a correctly high voltage......preventing desulfating of the plates in the battery, and should offer a better environment for a Lion cell.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:10 PM   #222
JoelWisman OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBuck View Post
Yah, I plan on it.

Just to clarify, is the part number for the new stator 12 31 8 524 422?

With the 16 cell AntiGravity battery, I presume I want their Small Case version of that battery? What about the special charger - need to carry one with me?

Again, thank you so much again for your help.
Small case or ytx12-16 will both fit. Pick the one you find most aesthetically attractive lol.

As answered in previous post, no special charger required except for long term storage.

No idea on the part #s. I work for Piaggio group now Someone working at a BMW dealership should be able to answer this and if they can't.... You should buy your parts elsewhere. BMW parts markup is around 40%, make them work for their cut :)
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #223
JRWooden
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oil cooling for stator?

I know this isn't exactly the "dead stator" thread, but since the topic is on the table:

Was anyone able to find out the details on the possible modification to the flywheel to allow oil cooling of the stator?
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:12 AM   #224
Sydney Andy
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So .... an Antigravity YTZ10-12 for my XT600E ????????
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:29 PM   #225
guavadude
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Thanks Joel for doing this testing...I even went and watched the youtube vids to get your numbers up!

Unfortunately I haven't read the entire thread and I also didn't find it until after I purchased a Shorei LFX14L2 for my G650 single. So I figure I'm going to be a real world tester. It can't be any worse than the issues I've had with the stock battery and an AGM that lasted about 16 months. I also feel that if you want the technology and products to get better you have to support them a little in the early stages.

I'll chime back in after I've used it more but I want to say now that I'm blown away with how much better the bike feels from the weight difference. I thought it would be different but I didn't know it would make that much difference in the handling. It caught me off guard and I was over steering.

Even if it only lasts as long as non lithium battery, I think I'd throw the extra money at it just for how much better the bike feels. Granted this is weight taken right off at the gas tank, highest point on the bike. I don't think you'd notice much difference if the battery was under the seat, but for any bikes with faux tanks it's a win for sure.

my $.02

...now back to your regularly scheduled high tech testing
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