GS cutting out - a puzzler...

[SR1]

So, what's the verdict, doc? Lambdas are likely not an issue?


Any other readily apparent issues? (all that geek talk about hex and values and stuff?) (I had to learn that stuff many moons ago, but I could not do a flippin' thing with it now if you held a gun to my head.


Are we now all anxiously awaiting the receipt of my on-a-lark purchase of two primary coils? (Yesterday's test certainly made me wonder about them, kinda for the first time)

[vagueout]

This has been going on since 19th march, i and others have bet on stick coils since that day and i don't waver from that. If i'm wrong i'll buy you a beer, or two.

[Poolside]

It does look like the O2 sensor voltages are normal. The first video shows the output voltage of each sensor swinging between a low of around 100mV, and a high of around 800mV. Technical notes: The traces look a little jagged, and an occasional voltage swing gets skipped. But that is simply due to a low query/response rate, and is unavoidable. The jagged looking signals are caused by the rate the ECU supplies data to the On Board Diagnostic (OBD) port and the GS-911, and are not related to the signals themselves. If the data were supplied at a higher rate the displayed signal would be a smooth faithful reproduction of the O2 sensor voltage swings, almost like sine waves. The data rate and the look of the signals isn't a fault of the the ECU or the GS-911. It's just the way it is. The amount of data that can be pushed through the OBD port is limited.

[SR1]

Originally Posted by vagueout

This has been going on since 19th march, i and others have bet on stick coils since that day and i don't waver from that. If i'm wrong i'll buy you a beer, or two.

Here's hoping you're right, man! Do keep in mind though, that between 19 March and today, I've had probably less than a week to play with the bike. Most of the time between then and now, it was either in port or on a ship, so though the time was long, actual troubleshooting time hasn't been that bad. I say that now, but if new coils don't fix it, it could get weird.

Poolside, JVB, and others, you guys all thinkin' coils now?

I won't know 'till at least Monday, the next day mail call is open (though I'm a contractor, I have an APO box on base).

[Poolside]

It sounds like you have coils on the way, but if you want there's one more test you can try. I think this is a better test than disconnecting both primaries at once. One important preparation step: Remove the primary coils when the motor is cold and apply some 'spark plug boot grease' inside the coil boots. Test 1 1. Warm up the motor running on all 4 coils. 2. Unplug only one primary coil, the left one say, and see how it runs. 3. Reconnect the left side primary, and unplug the right side primary. See how it runs. If the results are that one primary coil is far worse than the other, there one more thing to do. Test 2 1. Be sure to make a written note of which side is the poor running side. 2. Swap the primary coils themselves. You know, left-to-right and right-to-left. 3. Repeat Test 1

[SR1]

Not sure if I'll get to that before they get here. I will at least try to avoid having to use both, unless both my primaries do indeed need to be replaced. Good test though...basically what I did in March.

The interesting thing is that when I conducted that test in March, there was very little change, and none when the primaries were tested. Now, it seems they're acting up. I am still a little confused by they whole thing, despite understanding the "what" was being tested and also the "how." Its as if the system runs poorly "no matter what" at this point.


What's the "spark plug grease" for?

[Poolside]

The 'spark plug boot grease' lets the coil and boot assembly slip easily on and off the spark plug insulator. By the way, do you have the nifty coil removal tool?


Yes, now I see you did do the first part of the test. Going back to the first post in this thread...

Originally Posted by SR1

After reading here on ADVrider, I determined that one possibility could be coils. I then began disconnecting/reconnecting each coil trying to determine if removing a particular coil didn't affect the bike. It seemed like removing the left secondary coil had the least effect. The effect was negligible on that coil, all others were marked effects.

Based on the results from your test... Whichever disconnected secondary produced the least effect would point to a problem with the opposite side primary. Conversely, whichever disconnected secondary produced the greatest effect would point to a problem with the same side primary.

I think that logics together right. 

[SR1]

Originally Posted by Poolside

The 'spark plug boot grease' lets the coil and boot assembly slip easily on and off the spark plug insulator. By the way, do you have the nifty coil removal tool?


Yes, now I see you did do the first part of the test. Going back to the first post in this thread...

Based on the results from your test... Whichever disconnected secondary produced the least effect would point to a problem with the opposite side primary. Conversely, whichever disconnected secondary produced the greatest effect would point to a problem with the same side primary.

I think that logics together right. 

Yes, sure do!


HUH?! I thought if it didn't change anything, it must not have been doing anything to start with? ARGH!!!

[Poolside]

Originally Posted by SR1

Yes, sure do!


HUH?! I thought if it didn't change anything, it must not have been doing anything to start with? ARGH!!!

No, I think it's all good. The 2 tests I posted above were designed to do two things. 1. Determine which primary coil has the problem 2. Verify that determination by swapping the primary coils, left-to-right and right-to-left, and see if the problem also switched sides. But, as you said in the first post, "It seemed like removing the left secondary coil had the least effect. The effect was negligible on that coil, all others were marked effects." If your observation is broken down, it yields a logical conclusion. Or at least a logical conjecture.  The motor should run fairly strong on only the primary coils. Referring back to your initial observation at the start of this thread, if the left side secondary coil is disconnected and the "effect was negligible", then that suggests the right side primary coil is defective. The added test I was thinking of is to swap the primary coils. If swapping the primary coils resulted in the problem moving to the other side, that would serve to validate the conclusion drawn from your initial observations.

[SR1]

In re-reading the thread and the threads I first read to try to diagnose this, I think I misunderstood the purpose of the "remove one coil at a time" test.

I still don't get it, but if what you're saying is true, then I misunderstood the purpose of the tests.

So, with your logic (that sounds cynical, but I'm just dissecting the test further), if you have an issue like mine, disconnect a PRIMARY and there is no change, is the issue with the opposite side secondary?

Obviously, I still don't understand the total logic behind this.

[Poolside]

The difference is one is a direct test, and the other an indirect test. A R1200 motor runs pretty well on just the primary coils, and doesn't run so well on just the secondary coils. Because of the motor performance difference between the two sets of coils, using the indirect test for the primary coils yields a clearer result. i.e., Disconnect the secondary coils one at a time to indirectly test the opposite side primary. Why don't you just go outside and do the primary coil swap test?  Because according to your first post you already did the indirect coil test.

[SR1]

Because I'm studying for the pmp today. No time to ride and play. .

[SR1]

No parts in the mail today. I am concerned that the BMW dealer I bought them from didn't put my whole address in. We'll see.

[SR1]

Coils came in today. I'll try them when I get home. You folks will just be waking up...

[wjherrick]

....
They are the spark plug caps that go in the center of the head. The secondary spark plugs are on the bottom of the head.
To check them first take of the bottom sparks plug caps to make sure they are not stuck and you can get them off easy. Then with them back on warm up the bike maybe even ride it a mile or two to make sure it good and warm and idling smooth. Then with the bike on the center stand and idling reach under one side and remove the secondary spark plug wire. If there no change in the way it is running still smooth. That means that that main plug is working good and it not that coil. If it changes stumbles, cuts out, bogs down that means that cylinder is only running on the secondary plug and the main one is not firing right. if no change is noticed then try the other side. As fro the cost it should be around $ 80.00 each.

Okay. Those that voted "stick coil"... I think you may have got it.

Bill in OR