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Old 08-03-2012, 07:43 AM   #46
Shocktower
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How can my squish be determined, to what it should be .

A little about my bike 1979 RD 400 with new TM 28mm carbs Moto Carerra Millinum pipes, stock porting
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:55 PM   #47
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http://www.rb-designs.com/squish-band-test.htm

dunno what good squish for rd400 would be - i would assume between 1.2mm and 1.6mm. the shape/area of the squish is as important as the measurement at the edge of the squish band.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:47 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stainlesscycle View Post
http://www.rb-designs.com/squish-band-test.htm

dunno what good squish for rd400 would be - i would assume between 1.2mm and 1.6mm. the shape/area of the squish is as important as the measurement at the edge of the squish band.

That guy is local I may need to take my bike parts there
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Shocktower screwed with this post 08-03-2012 at 02:53 PM
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Shocktower View Post
That guy is local I may need to take my bike parts there
do it. he's excellent.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:01 PM   #50
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That's exactly how I measure it. Way better than clay. You can do it through the spark plug hole on some engines.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:12 PM   #51
willis 2000 OP
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To lessen the squish clearance, wouldn't it work better to machine the head gasket surface of the cylinder?
Or the base gasket surface if one wanted to tone down a hard-to-ride power delivery?
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:19 AM   #52
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In some cases there is no need for any sort of machining at all. Removing head and base gaskets is all you will need. I would be very cautious over using someone offering to machine heads on the basis of solder, for the simple reason that if the solder test isnt done perfectly then neither will the head machining. Taking the motor to someone who knows exactly what they are doing is the only real option for this type of work, but in most cases closing the clearance by the 1mm that will be provided by removing the gaskets, will be all thats needed on roadgoing motors.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:40 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
In some cases there is no need for any sort of machining at all. Removing head and base gaskets is all you will need.
What will be used to seal the cylinder? I imagine machining will be required to square up the contact points.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:28 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
In some cases there is no need for any sort of machining at all. Removing head and base gaskets is all you will need. I would be very cautious over using someone offering to machine heads on the basis of solder, for the simple reason that if the solder test isnt done perfectly then neither will the head machining. Taking the motor to someone who knows exactly what they are doing is the only real option for this type of work, but in most cases closing the clearance by the 1mm that will be provided by removing the gaskets, will be all thats needed on roadgoing motors.
if you remove the base gasket you change exhaust port height and to a lesser effect intake/boost port height.. machining the head (or removing head gasket/using thinner head gasket) is the only way to modify squish without affecting port timing. most water cooled motors (and many air cooled) don't have head gasket, so head machining is the way. you can modify squish by changing the base gasket stack, but it will effect port timing, sometimes enough to have a drastic effect on the top end rpm - not always in a good way.. you can easily lose massive top end hp if your exhaust port doesn't open all the way due to no base gasket.

solder check works fine. there is a reason he asks for 3 solder samples. repeatability. it's kinda hard to do it wrong.


also, most are not just decking the head. the head gets reshaped to get better squish, and optimum combustion chamber volume. there's more to it than just turning off some of the head to cylinder mating surface.
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stainlesscycle screwed with this post 08-04-2012 at 01:36 AM
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:34 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by willis 2000 View Post
Or the base gasket surface if one wanted to tone down a hard-to-ride power delivery?

jetting and ignition timing ( and power valve adjustment - if it's got one) can adjust hard to ride power delivery. and it's reversable...
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:58 AM   #56
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Running without a base gasket tends to improve mid range torque and low end pick up, but the effects of this are likely to be hard to detect on road going motors. On air cooled 2T bikes which have head gaskets, in most cases its possible to run without, after lapping the head to the cylinder using fine grinding paste, and using high temperature silicone sealer on both top and bottom deck faces when building.

The main thing in favour of seeing how a bike runs without the gaskets, is that it costs very little to do, and unlike bodged machining jobs, is not going to mean a need for new parts, if there is a need to go back to stock set up.

Whether someone provides 3 or 300 pieces of crushed solder to indicate what squish clearance they might have, isnt going to alter the fact that if measuring using this method hasnt been done properly, the results are going to be far from accurate, which kind of gets away from the point of adjusting the clearance in the first place.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:29 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Running without a base gasket tends to improve mid range torque and low end pick up, but the effects of this are likely to be hard to detect on road going motors. On air cooled 2T bikes which have head gaskets, in most cases its possible to run without, after lapping the head to the cylinder using fine grinding paste, and using high temperature silicone sealer on both top and bottom deck faces when building.

The main thing in favour of seeing how a bike runs without the gaskets, is that it costs very little to do, and unlike bodged machining jobs, is not going to mean a need for new parts, if there is a need to go back to stock set up.

Whether someone provides 3 or 300 pieces of crushed solder to indicate what squish clearance they might have, isnt going to alter the fact that if measuring using this method hasnt been done properly, the results are going to be far from accurate, which kind of gets away from the point of adjusting the clearance in the first place.
there are so many wrong statements in your post, i'm not gonna bother.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:34 AM   #58
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For sealing a head without a gasket. EC Birt's solution back in the day was to go to a paint store for a can of silver paint, he would reach back and get the one that has been sitting undisturbed for the longest time. Without disturbing the paint he would drain off all of the can's contents but the gooey residue paste at the bottom. He would "paint" the gasket surface with this goo to create the seal.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:06 PM   #59
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there are so many wrong statements in your post, i'm not gonna bother.
Seems to work very well in the real world, so glad you didnt bother to reply from the perspective of a Google Gary.....................
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:33 PM   #60
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Seems to work very well in the real world, so glad you didnt bother to reply from the perspective of a Google Gary.....................
i don't google shit about tuning. so much bad info out there.
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