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Old 07-31-2012, 12:12 PM   #46
HarveyMushman
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Actually I think he (Ayrton) felt like things should be done a certain way (grid position) and if there was going to be an incident it would be the fault of the FIA because the weren't behaving correctly. I don't think it was an ego thing with Ayrton I think he thought there was a right way and a wrong way and he wasn't going to adjust to something he felt was wrong. Causing a crash might very well be ridiculous but I think Ayrton was unwilling to to bend on his beliefs and I respect that.
Sure. And he had nothing to do with the "incident" that somehow transpired . . . I was a fan of his at the time, and wanted to be on his side. But his thinking and behavior was just bonkers, and some frightening rationalization and dissembling is required to defend it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:07 PM   #47
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His press conference explaining all of this was conveniently left out of the movie.
who's to say? if someone is doing a film/docu on a fallen immortal they are usually going to do it in a positive light. to say that it was purposely left out is pure speculation. they only have 2 hours or less to get a finished product down to.

I got caught up in the Chad Reed James Steawrt SX title drama in 2010 when Stewart won it. The last race at Vegas Reed had a mathematical chance as I recall and needed a good finish with a very bad finish by Stewart.

Reed was out front and then slowed and Stewart had no choice but to pass and Reed appeared to try and...disrupt his forward progress.

Racing to the nth degree? it was Reeds ONLY option. I "hated" Reed for that but have since realized how unique these minds are. the pressure. the desire to win. etc etc etc.

Maybe Senna's mindset was if we both go out I win. game over. even he didn't seem to like it, what little they showed, but I think from what little I saw that Senna came across and was a "good" guy.

pitchers bean batters purposely in baseball, nobody thinks any less of them.

foot ball players bite, grab, hold, trip, clip, blind side, etc etc, part of the game.

you're a much more informed race fan then me but those are scary lofty zones those guys are in given the speeds. makes my beloved motocross seem like miniature golf, but it seems trying to assess those minds is pointless, they are very rare people to compete at that level of intensity.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:23 PM   #48
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Sure. And he had nothing to do with the "incident" that somehow transpired . . .

He had everything to do with it but the root cause of the problem (I think he felt) was incorrect behavior from the FIA. I think he felt like he was betraying himself if he went along with something he thought was wrong regardless of the outcome. He was standing his ground to the extreme and if something bad were to come of it the blame could be laid on the FIA. After immersing myself in all things Senna after his death that's what I came away with.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:54 PM   #49
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he had everything to do with it but the root cause of the problem (i think he felt) was incorrect behavior from the fia. I think he felt like he was betraying himself if he went along with something he thought was wrong regardless of the outcome. He was standing his ground to the extreme and if something bad were to come of it the blame could be laid on the fia. After immersing myself in all things senna after his death that's what i came away with.
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:10 AM   #50
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. . . if something bad were to come of it the blame could be laid on the FIA.
If Senna deliberately crashed into Prost the FIA could be blamed? Wow.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:35 AM   #51
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If Senna deliberately crashed into Prost the FIA could be blamed? Wow.
Because the FIA created an incorrect situation. I believe that's what he thought.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:57 AM   #52
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Because the FIA created an incorrect situation. I believe that's what he thought.
I know that's what he thought. He said so. It's madness. And it was left out of the movie because it didn't support the "tortured and righteous genius suffers injustices at the hands of bad French people" narrative.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:08 AM   #53
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quite a story. what/why are the sparks coming off the cars so much?

They are Tungstin fasteners holding the Legality plank to the specifications of the FIA, the plank must remain 10mm or the car will be disquailfied, when Belgium GP comes on watch Eau Rouge you will see them sparks
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:25 PM   #54
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They are Tungstin fasteners holding the Legality plank to the specifications of the FIA, the plank must remain 10mm or the car will be disquailfied, when Belgium GP comes on watch Eau Rouge you will see them sparks
I think that Flug is referring to the cars of a few years ago that had sparks flying from almost everywhere including the front wing end-plates.

It's not often you see sparks today because the plank fixings are recessed. They have to be. What you do see is the plank material itself sometimes as it grounds.

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Old 08-04-2012, 06:57 AM   #55
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I remember Senna in Karts back in the old days - when he used his full family name. The karter he mentioned (Terry Fullerton) was a regular fixture at Rye House back in the day. As someone who was around at the start of his career and at the end I can atest that he didn't 'drive like an idiot'. He was the most naturally talented driver I've ever seen and most likely will ever see.

I stopped watching formula 1 after Imola.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:34 AM   #56
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Senna & F1

I loved F1 but in a bygone era that took too many good drivers - starting with Clark, McLaren, Rindt, Petersen and not racing but Hailwood, then I only followed at a distance. But I was watching TV that fateful day when Senna died and have read a bit before and since. I'm with wxwax; Senna was a driver like Schumacher who was unbelievably talented and/but, in my view, would do anything to win; fair means or foul. From psyching out team mates to actually taking out the opposition.

By the way Prost is a very keen cyclist; mainly on the road and I believe he drove one of the TdF backup cars but also entered and finished the Cape Epic, an 8 day mountain bike stage race, this year
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:16 AM   #57
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I've watched it a few times now, can't remember if msnbc sports or the velocity channel is showing it. It does somewhat vilify Prost, who comes off as a sore loser. WRT japan and the first turn crashes that sealed Senna's championships, it sure looked like the first time Prost turned in way early blocking Senna. The second time, Senna had no chance at a pass and there was no way prost could have given him room without missing the following corner.

Man of contradictions, very religious yet strangely uncaring about safety of other drivers at times. Other times, like the piece and rather disturbing video of martin o'donnely's crash showed Senna weeping nearby.

On that note, did anyone find it strange that martin's crumpled body after being ejected, still in his seat, lying on the track with right leg strangely askew while track marshals ran around for minutes without even giving him a second glance? I guess they thought he was dead. It looked bad but he's still around and mobile.

Hard to know where he stands against the drivers today, but I think he was a better driver than Prost because when it starts to rain, its more driver than car, and Ayrton smoked prost in the wet to win his first title. Schumacher and Alonzo are also a cut above in the wet. They are also prima donna drama queens like Senna was.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:04 AM   #58
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Behold "The Power of Dreams"...

Suzuka - Sound of Honda - Ayrton Senna 1989
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:46 PM   #59
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Behold "The Power of Dreams"...

Suzuka - Sound of Honda - Ayrton Senna 1989
Pretty neat. Thanks.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:54 AM   #60
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There's another interesting documentary about Senna called "Ayrton Senna - The right to win". It has been done a few years ago and shows other points of view and I think is quite complementary to the movie. HERE the full feature on yt. Enjoy and sorry if it has already been posted.
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