Is ATGATT overrated?

[windmill]

Originally Posted by pretbek

Agreed.
But is it the one or the other? Do you need to choose between head in the ride and full coverage gear?

It takes 3 things to be safe on the road.

Skill
Safety equipment
Protective gear.

Skill is the ability to operate a motorcycle proficiently, and most importantly the roadcraft to be aware of your environment, and the judgment to make good decisions.
It is impossible to be 100% aware 100% of the time.

Safety equipments is basically lighting and the color of your bike and gear that make you visible.
There is no way for you to know if it is having the desired effect, and some things like excessively bright or modulating lights could also have a negative effect.

Protective gear is nothing more than what you wear to possibly reduce injury when your skill and safety equipment fail.

All are important in their time and place. None are a guarantee, but it is impossible to enjoy their benefit if you don't use them.

[Wraith Rider]

Originally Posted by windmill

It takes 3 things to be safe on the road.

Skill
Safety equipment
Protective gear.

Skill is the ability to operate a motorcycle proficiently, and most importantly the roadcraft to be aware of your environment, and the judgment to make good decisions.
It is impossible to be 100% aware 100% of the time.

Safety equipments is basically lighting and the color of your bike and gear that make you visible.
There is no way for you to know if it is having the desired effect, and some things like excessively bright or modulating lights could also have a negative effect.

Protective gear is nothing more than what you wear to possibly reduce injury when your skill and safety equipment fail.

All are important in their time and place. None are a guarantee, but it is impossible to enjoy their benefit if you don't use them.

And now the 1000$ question. If you have said 1000$ for your safety, would you spend it on:
a) rider training courses
b) high viz equipment & loud pipes
c) atgatt
d) some training + motgatt

Brain (skill increasement) or gear?

[ray h]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

And now the 1000$ question. If you have said 1000$ for your safety, would you spend it on:
a) rider training courses
b) high viz equipment & loud pipes
c) atgatt
d) some training + motgatt

Brain (skill increasement) or gear?

Training takes nothing but time, all you need is the internet and a motorcycle (I assume you already have both).
I know there are going to be people disagree but there is tons of good info on riding floating around on the net for free.
As for the equipment, the best thing you can do is make sure your motorcycle is in good mechanically condition, don't worry about the color or how much noise it makes. I'm not convinced that the color means anything, you can't really tell what color a motorcycle is from the front or back and thats where you really need to be noticed.

[KX50002]

Originally Posted by ray h

Training takes nothing but time, all you need is the internet and a motorcycle (I assume you already have both).
I know there are going to be people disagree but there is tons of good info on riding floating around on the net for free.
As for the equipment, the best thing you can do is make sure your motorcycle is in good mechanically condition, don't worry about the color or how much noise it makes. I'm not convinced that the color means anything, you can't really tell what color a motorcycle is from the front or back and thats where you really need to be noticed.

What you really need are "U-turn pipes" which point forwards, sending the life saving sound waves ahead of you, unless you're riding above Mach1 , in which case all bets are off.

[Celtic Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by ray h

To me ATG = wearing every piece of protective gear available on the market with no compromises.

Well, I guess that means full airbag-equipped leathers over full armor pressure suit, roost guard, motocross boots, knee braces, neck brace, gloves, full face helmet, dental guard, with a day-glow vest.

Oh wait, have you had your spleen preemptively removed, too? Should wear a Foley catheter since an empty bladder is safer in a crash than a full one!

Don't get me wrong, I believe that more gear is better than less,but am afraid that like "bullying", ATGATT has been redefined and overused to the point that it's rapidly becoming a meaningless buzzword.

[NYTrainer]

I ALWAYS gear up...I would rather sweat than bleed.

[243Win]

Thirteen days in the hospital and two surgeries so I could keep my left foot as a kid, Yeah, I wear gear.

That said, occasionally, you will see me in kevlar jeans and Merrill hiking boots. And the whole time I'm thinking I'd better be on my game today cuz I'm making a compromise in safety. Relatively speaking.

I can still clearly remember waking up back in the brush, looking at a bike that made no sense it was so smashed up and suddenly seeing my bloody sock hanging from the foot peg. Then I looked at my foot,... Didn't hurt right at that moment due to shock, but I knew it was gonna hurt like Hell to fix me!

Sneakers are poor riding apparel. Should have been killed in that wreck, no helmet, etc,... Total Not-gatt!

[windmill]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

And now the 1000$ question. If you have said 1000$ for your safety, would you spend it on:
a) rider training courses
b) high viz equipment & loud pipes
c) atgatt
d) some training + motgatt

Brain (skill increasement) or gear?

Thats a great question!

b) is the first one to go, pipes loud enough to have any actual effect are totally unacceptable, high viz colors and lighting are the least effective thing a rider with any skill needs.

c) goes next, I have everything necessary to be ATG, I just choose to not use it all.

a) is out because advanced rider training is track orientated and advanced track skills don't really translate well to the street especially as I am not a performance orientated rider.

d) would be the one I would go with, an off road riding course and some new winter gear would be nice.

[ray h]

Originally Posted by Celtic Curmudgeon

Well, I guess that means full airbag-equipped leathers over full armor pressure suit, roost guard, motocross boots, knee braces, neck brace, gloves, full face helmet, dental guard, with a day-glow vest.

Oh wait, have you had your spleen preemptively removed, too? Should wear a Foley catheter since an empty bladder is safer in a crash than a full one!

Don't get me wrong, I believe that more gear is better than less,but am afraid that like "bullying", ATGATT has been redefined and overused to the point that it's rapidly becoming a meaningless buzzword.

Bingo....

To me, ATG is unacheavable and overused. I get irritated with people who claim to be ATGATT just so they can put other riders down when they themselves are not ATGATT.

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by ray h

I get irritated with people who claim to be ATGATT just so they can put other riders down when they themselves are not ATGATT.

[bess227]

As a new (again after 20 years) rider/commuter, I found the opinions on this thread interesting.

some helpful, some thought provoking. some statements that made total sense and others that just don't resonate with me at all.

I just purchased a black/hi-viz tourmaster set of riding gear. truth is i probably won't wear the pants everyday (may change my mind) but i will the jacket. in just a few days i have noticed a significant number of people looking more at the coat. could this be in my mind? maybe......but i feel like i am more easily seen in it than without it.

i admit that i am ultimately responsible for my movements and actions while on the bike.......i get that completely. but anyone that thinks we are in "control" of all the variables in life i can't agree with. guess i look at it as if when that little old lady runs over me sitting still at a light, when the officer asks her what happened, she responds with "i didn't see him" and he looks at my hi-viz clad body he can look at her and say "really?????......that's what you're going with??"

ride in what makes you feel comfortable. i have some friends that ride cruisers religiously that have already made the comments about the gear. no problem. one of them rides in flip flops, tank top and a the least helmet he can get by with.......no problem......that is his decision, he is a grown man.

here's wishing everyone safety and fun regardless of what you are wearing.

[dolomoto]

Originally Posted by bess227

.... truth is i probably won't wear the pants everyday (may change my mind) but i will the jacket. ...

The best riding gear is stuff that you will wear every time you ride.

[KX50002]

Forget the Hi viz, they can't hit what they can't see! I am convinced the average motorist is actually out to run me over!

[Boon Booni]

Originally Posted by dolomoto

The best riding gear is stuff that you will wear every time you ride.

I like my stuff to look worn and used, but I'm thinking it might be time to retire that Stitch.

[acesandeights]

Originally Posted by dolomoto

The best riding gear is stuff that you will wear every time you ride.

Is your passenger wearing Tourmaster gear?