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Old 08-09-2012, 07:06 AM   #76
DAKEZ
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Originally Posted by 2handedSpey View Post
I have a guess that you are a fairly younger rider? You sound like an awesome, omnipotent rider on top of your game. Great for you. But, here's the deal.... Many of us don't ride around housing developments and familiar fields close to home. Many of us do overland, multiday, adventure trips going into locations unknown.
When you're traversing a deep rut and need a dab of speed to loft a heavy KLR up and over but, since you've never been in N.E. California before on this particular forest road (for example) you shoot right over an embankment, plop on your side and shatter your tibia... Uhhhh yeah, it happens like that. It's a big world my friend and I have seen bigger men than you eat shit from time to time.


If you break that easy don't ride with Road Rash or Hells Alien.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:33 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
Deer = get to know the roads you travel well and where they tend to cross (pretty east to spot their trails) and you can cut the risk of Deer by a good 3/4. Keep alert to things that change their patterns (new housing developments, the season, what's planted in what field = you get the idea)
So, you figure that even a superior rider with a superior intellect is still susceptible to 25% of deer incursions?
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:41 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
I'm 45, been riding since my late teens.
I'm not only a daily commuter (all-weather in Pa. and that means snow and ice) I also log lots of long distance rides whenever my crummy retail job allows it. (around 10-14,000 miles per year)
I've also been down on the road several times and will say this, the things that have put me down; will never put me down again. (I learned from the experiences)

I guess the main difference I see between the two of us, is that (based on the comment I highlighted) I don't ride carelessly into the unknown, beyond what I know my abilities to be.
If I want to ride like a bat out of hell, down a logging road or other area, I'll do a pre-ride first. There's no reason to find yourself in the situation you describe unless, as the expression goes "fools rush in"...
I.M.H.O. there is no such thing as an unknown/surprise hazard the way I ride.
I'm sure what I describe might not sound like fun to all you adrenaline junkies out there but, if you are aware of there being hazards first (like what you describe) you can turn it into a fun event by taking it on with skill and not being surprised by it. (and shattering your tibisa)


I've eaten my share of shit (while going through a long learning curve) but, now ride with enough care to avoid as much shit eating as possible. I still ride spiritedly but, only on roads or areas I know well. To do otherwise invites seconds of eating shit. (that's the difference between skill and recklessness) Why eat shit twice when you didn't like it the first time?

My definition of "skill" is knowing what you can and can't handle.
If you can't handle the type of surprise you mention and still ride so fast that you can't handle that type of situational surprise = you're riding beyond your skill level and deserve to eat shit. (just like I deserved to eat shit when I fucked up in my past)

Skill = the difference between delusional and applicable.
very well said!

I believe in ATGATT, even though I'm not, I don't ride without the basics like helmet, boots, gloves, and jacket, its just common sense because nobody's perfect.
Needing to be ATGATT because you consistently ride beyond your sight line and skill level is a serious lack of common sense. Just like riders who complain about "constantly being cut off", they just don't understand the real problem yet.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:07 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post

Diesel fuels = Best thing I ever did was buy lightly tinted polarized lenses. They allow you to spot slick spots in the road due to the oil-like prism effect it gives off. Tar snakes that are heated enough to be slick, do the same thing. (as do reg. oil and gas slicks)
Do you wear your sunglasses at night?
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:11 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post

Now, if you subscribe to having to blast down roads you hardly know, way in excess of the speed limits....I'll admit that the above things you mention, might be a little hard to avoid.
Agree with you on this point, something I never do. Honestly, you put a lot of thought into your riding, but I believe the techniques you cite can minimize, but not eliminate road hazards. Therefore, I still maintain that one cannot, by slick riding, totally eliminate the hazards of motorcycling.

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Old 08-09-2012, 05:47 PM   #81
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Therefore, I still maintain that one cannot, by slick riding, totally eliminate the hazards of motorcycling.
I don't think anyone's arguing you can eliminate risk through using your extreme skilz, but you can improve your odds drastically by doing various things to the point that riding isn't particularly dangerous--at least not dangerous enough to keep many of us from continuing to do it! And, you can gain the majority of the safety benefit by doing very simple things that anyone can master: don't drink and drive, avoid driving in dangerous areas (ice, snow, gravel), drive a bit slower than hair-on-fire fast, wear basic safety gear, use hi-viz gear, stay very alert and don't take risks, etc. The other day I was riding a very familiar rural road with very tight corners--it's fun to swoop around them at a speed that feels fast, but might be only 35 mph. But, this morning the sun was in my eyes, and the shadows were completely obscuring the road, so I dialed it back a notch from my usual pace, and low and behold as I was taking one of these corners suddenly the road surface was covered with a slippery mixture of dirt, gravel, and horse manure where I had never encountered it before. The heavy rains the previous day had washed this stuff across the road right at the apex of the corner and I never saw it until I was in it. There was a short pucker moment as both the front and back lost bite, but because I wasn't at full tilt I was able to straighten up the bike and slither toward the edge of the road, where I once again regained sufficient traction to round the corner. Taking a little bit off your pace at times when the road is unfamiliar or the conditions aren't perfect might just make a big difference in your day. Plus, I was suited up and if I had crashed at maybe 30 mph I probably wouldn't have been too badly banged up. Belt and braces...
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:27 PM   #82
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Me thinks ABS and traction control should be part of the ATG concept. At least ABS is able to reduce impact speed and thus reduces the injuries as gear does. Not riding ATAS (all the assistance systems) is insane and should be fiercely condemned.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:11 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
... Just like riders who complain about "constantly being cut off", they just don't understand the real problem yet.
Exactly. My first teacher told me it will be my own fault if I *ever* get hurt while riding, and I have yet to ever find him wrong.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:51 AM   #84
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Skill won't save you from everything....

Even the most skilled riders can be bit by the unavoidable....

Quote:
Lawrence Grodsky, a nationally known motorcycle safety expert and author who taught thousands of riders to handle themselves on the roads, died Saturday on his bike in Fort Stockton, Texas, after being hit by a deer.
He was 55, and had been on his way from a safety conference in California to Pittsburgh for his mother's 85th birthday, said his sister, Marcia Grodsky.
"Larry was the most talented, experienced and competent motorcyclist in the country, but this is the one thing he knew he couldn't do anything about," said his girlfriend, Maryann Puglisi, with whom he lived in Squirrel Hill and Washington, D.C., and who helped run his business.
"Just a few weeks ago he said to me, 'That's how I'm going to go, it's going to be a deer.' He could deal with all the idiot drivers, but at night when a deer jumps in your path, that's it and he knew that."
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:47 AM   #85
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I agree 100%.
Been riding even longer, and never had an issue on the street.
Dirt is different, and you can fall and get busted up even when using care, at least on a bigger heavy bike.
At least, its a lot easier in the dirt.
In my case, if I had been riding a smaller lighter lower bike, I might not have been hurt at all, and that is part of it I suppose, as an old guy with brittle bones, a dr650 was likely a bad choice for rough dirt riding.
After switching to a TW200, I did not fall at all.
If the dr was bad, a klr or anything heavier is just asking for trouble and broken bones.

After a few close calls early on, I use great caution in places with limited sight lines.
Once I came around a well known turn at speed to find a huge hole, did the super man flying thing, lucky I was young and flexible.
I also had a few very close calls with jeeps, like hitting their mirrors at speed in turns, and that made me think about what would have happened with a full head on, its pot luck if you can avoid something like that in heavy sand with limited space and warning at higher speeds.

Deer are a risk, but I think you can reduce that a lot by not riding where they are at the times they are active, and if you have to, slow way down and look for them.

I had one close call with deer on the BRP, riding when I should not have been, and even though I saw them and slowed down, they timed their jump to pass a foot in front of my bike, stupid squid deer things.
Not sure what would have happened had I hit it at 40 mph...I doubt I would be dead, but I would not have been happy.

I think there are just way to many people who over ride their sight lines, unable to react for whatever, and then say there was nothing they could do.






Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
I'm 45, been riding since my late teens.
I'm not only a daily commuter (all-weather in Pa. and that means snow and ice) I also log lots of long distance rides whenever my crummy retail job allows it. (around 10-14,000 miles per year)
I've also been down on the road several times and will say this, the things that have put me down; will never put me down again. (I learned from the experiences)

I guess the main difference I see between the two of us, is that (based on the comment I highlighted) I don't ride carelessly into the unknown, beyond what I know my abilities to be.
If I want to ride like a bat out of hell, down a logging road or other area, I'll do a pre-ride first. There's no reason to find yourself in the situation you describe unless, as the expression goes "fools rush in"...
I.M.H.O. there is no such thing as an unknown/surprise hazard the way I ride.
I'm sure what I describe might not sound like fun to all you adrenaline junkies out there but, if you are aware of there being hazards first (like what you describe) you can turn it into a fun event by taking it on with skill and not being surprised by it. (and shattering your tibisa)


I've eaten my share of shit (while going through a long learning curve) but, now ride with enough care to avoid as much shit eating as possible. I still ride spiritedly but, only on roads or areas I know well. To do otherwise invites seconds of eating shit. (that's the difference between skill and recklessness) Why eat shit twice when you didn't like it the first time?

My definition of "skill" is knowing what you can and can't handle.
If you can't handle the type of surprise you mention and still ride so fast that you can't handle that type of situational surprise = you're riding beyond your skill level and deserve to eat shit. (just like I deserved to eat shit when I fucked up in my past)

Skill = the difference between delusional and applicable.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:51 AM   #86
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Skill?
No, but he was aware of the problem and rode at night anyway.
In a place where deer are active.

That was avoidable.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
Skill won't save you from everything....

Even the most skilled riders can be bit by the unavoidable....
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:52 AM   #87
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Me thinks ABS and traction control should be part of the ATG concept. At least ABS is able to reduce impact speed and thus reduces the injuries as gear does. Not riding ATAS (all the assistance systems) is insane and should be fiercely condemned.
Sell your bike and get some crumple zones.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:54 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by djg View Post
i still maintain that one cannot, by slick riding, totally eliminate the hazards of motorcycling.
98%
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:18 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Skill?
No, but he was aware of the problem and rode at night anyway.
In a place where deer are active.

That was avoidable.

So if he was hit during the day then it wouldn't have been avoidable??

Deere jump out in the road all times of the day.

the only way to avoid every potential motorcycle riding accident is to never get on one....
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:22 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Skill?
No, but he was aware of the problem and rode at night anyway.
In a place where deer are active.

That was avoidable.
Agreed, and I completely avoid the most-dangerous combinations of seasons, times-of-day and/or locations. However, one of the finest men and riders I have ever known and his wife both died in the middle of the day while away to accept a dealership award and a deer happened to intervene.
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