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Old 05-12-2012, 07:48 AM   #856
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelWisman View Post
... Basically I got back a 3 page reply that had no useful directives LOL but was very cautiously written....
Joel:

You were not really surprised by this were you?
The weenies ....
I'm glad you were, at the very least, able to get a rise out of them!


Is the 6Khz pulse something that could be added by a firmware upgrade?
I don't know how they knock down the voltage to the injectors, so maybe that could not be ramped up,
but it would seem that at the very least they could add the "cleaning/unsticking" pulse-stream at key-on time...
Unless of course there is a patent in the way?
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:07 AM   #857
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The EV14 series injectors seem to be an evolution of the EV2 series injectors, at least I have seen several comments to that effect in reference to car use.

If the reality is, it is more a sticky issue than a clogging issue, than I wonder if finding a replacement for the injector will solve it it.

Injectors are really simple devices. The heart of them in the electro-magnet that is responsible for opening them. If higher voltage will do that, it seems a simple fix for the manufacturer.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:52 AM   #858
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
The EV14 series injectors seem to be an evolution of the EV2 series injectors, at least I have seen several comments to that effect in reference to car use.

If the reality is, it is more a sticky issue than a clogging issue, than I wonder if finding a replacement for the injector will solve it it.

Injectors are really simple devices. The heart of them in the electro-magnet that is responsible for opening them. If higher voltage will do that, it seems a simple fix for the manufacturer.
If I understood what I think Joel was saying ... what I got out of it was that BMW chose to operate the injectors at a lower voltage than the maximum design specification in order to make them quieter....
i.e. a "design trade-off" was made....
If I'm not misinterpreting this, I likely would have dialed in more voltage, more noise, and more reliability
(and not run the risk of having a malfunctioning injector stuck into particular body orifice by a crazed American named Joel )
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:10 PM   #859
itsatdm
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You are an old time bike rider. Read the whiney threads. Whats that ticking noise? It is your F**kin injectors.

It makes me wonder how BMW does it. ECU or a resister in the "Motronic electric plug". Read BMW specific.

Seems easy to find out with a multimeter. If simply a resister in a plug there must be other connectors out there.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:23 PM   #860
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
You are an old time bike rider. Read the whiney threads. Whats that ticking noise? It is your F**kin injectors.

It makes me wonder how BMW does it. ECU or a resister in the "Motronic electric plug". Read BMW specific.

Seems easy to find out with a multimeter. If simply a resister in a plug there must be other connectors out there.
I hadn't though of that ...
That would be really sweet... reducing or eliminating the resistor would likely change the injection profile a bit, but hopefully not so much that the ECU could not "learn" the new curve.
Looking at the (very simplistic) schematic in the Haynes manual it does not show any resistor ... but that doesn't mean there isn't one..........
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:17 PM   #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
You are an old time bike rider. Read the whiney threads. Whats that ticking noise? It is your F**kin injectors.

It makes me wonder how BMW does it. ECU or a resister in the "Motronic electric plug". Read BMW specific.

Seems easy to find out with a multimeter. If simply a resister in a plug there must be other connectors out there.
Good thinking, and FYI a resistor is how volvo did it for many years (it was 4 resistors next to the air filter on the forward right side of engine compartment)

Alas with BMW the voltage feeding the injectors is reduced inside the brain box :(

And YES, had BMW not reduced the voltage, there would be multiple threads complaining about the ticking noise and service writers inundated with complaints our shops don't know how to adjust valves lol.


So yes I am also disappointed BMW didn't use a more robust fuel system, and its not just the injectors but also and largely that darn uncoated aluminum fuel pump that is the primary culprit, but.....


Some perspective.......

Through 40,000 miles on an early 09 F* and a late 11 F8, I never once had any issues with my injectors.


I ride year round. I have not disabled my evaporative emissions system and particularly have not removed the canister. I used Chevron Techrom concentrate, 1 oz per gallon every 5 to 10 tanks. If the bike is going to sit for more then a week, I fill the tank. I used a good battery so injector voltage is not further reduced by low battery voltage while starting.


I'm not sure which of those things was most important, but I don't know of anyone that rides year round, uses a good battery (IE not a ytx14) and uses techron occasionally that ever had an injector problem so I'm guessing those are the most important things.

It is annoying that BMW needs these things while none of the Japanese or Piaggio group bikes do, but its not insurmountable.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:33 PM   #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinjet View Post
I'm reminded of what a Triumph mechanic once told me in the 70's. He was saying that when he complained that the bikes were jetted wrong for Southern California (where he worked for a Triumph dealer) he was told the Triumph sold bike to a world market and therefore couldn't provide SoCal with specially jetted bikes. The rest is history.
And that incarnation of Triumph went out of business shortly thereafter...
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:16 PM   #863
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Ok, folks, I need some assistance in identifying a problem with my 2009 F800GS. After about an hour of riding, it randomly loses throttle input. I can be cruising along in any gear and at any speed, and my tach will drop down to idle while my throttle will do nothing. I can try to rev it over and over, change gears, but nothing happens until I slow down enough for the bike to stall out. It will idle for as long as I let her coast if it happens while going fast. At that point, it will either start again immediately or after a minute or two of resting. No key removal or turning required. If I add fuel, the problem will stop, but if I do not, it will get progressively worse until she is doing this every block (this along with the time involved before the problem arises makes me think it is a fuel temp problem).

She only started doing this on this trip up to Colorado from Houston. She has 7,000 miles on her, and I ride her year round. Always use Techron if it's available; otherwise, I add fuel treatment. Unfortunately, I don't have my tools or a garage out here. The BMW/Harley shop in Grand Junction was useless except for letting me know there were no codes. I've read a few posts on trouble shooting fuel issues, but nothing with this exact pattern. It seems strange that I lose power but she continues to idle (makes me think it's not a fuel pump problem, but an ECU problem?) Thanks.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:05 PM   #864
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Try Here
Under warranty they finally replaced the fuel pump, fuel pump electronics and injectors.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:14 PM   #865
JoelWisman
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That sounds like it is most likely the fuel pressure sensor failing. It is located at the end of the fuel rail on the left side.

You can unplug the fuel pressure sensor and the bike will run but be difficult to start the first time as it takes the bike a while to determine this sensor is unplugged.

If the problem goes away and stays away, that was it.

If the problem gets worse, the impeller on the fuel pump is slipping on the motor shaft when it gets hot. This type of fuel pump failure is rare but does occur.

It is 99% certain that it is one of those two componants failing and NOT the ECU (DME), or fuel pump electronics as neither of those respond primarily to fuel temperature which it certainly sounds like what your bike is doing.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:49 PM   #866
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Generic fuel pump....

Hey Joel!

Not sure if you saw the appends, but one guy has used an Opel fuel pump with some success,
he reported a crappy idle, but it might have been due to substandard pump.
He said it was a match in terms of size & connections - it was sourced as an:
Opel Tigra Vectra B Zafira 99-05 FUEL PUMP OPEL 815037
Available on eBay but otherwise hard to come by in USA since Opel is no longer imported...

There's another pump out there also that is asserted to work ok:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Intank-E...-/180899405487

http://www.onlyfuelpumps.com/oem-rep...p-hfp-382.html



You have not broken back in to Gateway BMW to retrieve your personal possessions from your desk yet have you?

Until I read your append I would not have put the pressure sensor unit on my short list of suspects ... thanks!

I do recall your advice that the only two sensors that are absolutely required for operation are the TPS & Crank position sensor ... My fallback plan if drunk or stupid and stuck out-back, is to unplug everything but them and see what happens next ...
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:29 PM   #867
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Bingo.

It was the fuel pressure sensor. I unplugged it from behind the right side fairing and put in 100 miles without a hiccup. Thanks for being such a great resource.
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:15 PM   #868
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Originally Posted by Zojirushi View Post
Bingo.

It was the fuel pressure sensor. I unplugged it from behind the right side fairing and put in 100 miles without a hiccup. Thanks for being such a great resource.
Awesome...... On a side note...... If you route through El Paso,TX.....on your way back....Let me know if it acts up again..... Have a great ride.... If your heading up north on 70.... exit the Mack exit..... for a 20 miles rt west to the colorado river overlook.... Easy trip on the 8gs...... If your heading to Moab..... head down south on 50/550 to gateway......catch the dirt road over the La Sal mountains...to Moab.... easy ride...all dirt...very scenic..... Have at it....
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:16 AM   #869
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Hi everyone - it's Bobby Cleveland. Many of you know me as the Engine Answerman. I've been reading some of your posts regarding STA-BIL causing engine problems and damage and wanted to clear those concerns up for you. STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer is extremely effective at protecting fresh fuel. If fuel is already deteriorated, it cannot reverse this effect.

Another cause of your engine or carburetor getting gummed up is when an engine has not been well cared for and then STA-BIL Brand Fuel Stabilizer is added. The cleaner in the product cleans deposits off of the fuel system surfaces, but this debris is too large to run through the carburetor. A severely dirty fuel system should always be cleaned with a strong dosage of a top rated fuel system cleaner in any case as this will improve performance and fuel economy. It will also help you avoid the carburetor plugging problem.

Here's a great video with information on how to properly store all of your gas-powered equipment and vehicles, along with the importance of including STA-BIL Brand Fuel Stabilizer in the process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OJ8Mr8KVzc&feature=plcp. If you have more questions, feel free to post them here, and I’ll respond directly. You’re also welcome to contact Gold Eagle Co.’s customer service at 1-800-367-3245.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:34 PM   #870
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