Hotrodding the GS

[motomandan]

Any word on when they are shipping ? I sent a p.m. no response. Mine has been sitting on waiting on parts for over a month with no update?

[Poolside]

Originally Posted by Andrew

My IICEE-AIRE continues to perform very well.

It's especially appreciated for engine-lugging lane-splitting on local freeways.

Thanks Andrew! It does work nice for lane-splitting and other low-RPM quick response work.

[Poolside]

Originally Posted by motomandan

Any word on when they are shipping ? I sent a p.m. no response. Mine has been sitting on waiting on parts for over a month with no update?

Not much to tell really, Motoman, from yesterday's post in the Vendor thread. I have a good-sized block of time available. During that time I'll be at the bench building IICE Airs. Like right now for instance, I've been down here since about 10am. I'll be here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress.

[EKinOR]

OK, I have some performance related questions on my 2002 R1150GS. It has 42k miles and the valves were adjusted and TB sync done at 38k miles, along with an oil change. I put new Autolite 3923 plugs (.035 gap) in 1k miles ago.

1) It's hard starting when cold. It takes at least two 4 second cranks to get started, and sometimes three or four attempts. Once warm, it fires right up. What might be the cause of this?

2) After a cold start, I usually let it warm up to one, sometimes two bars. Invariably, the first time I accelerate on to the road, it stumbles and lags for a second, then "catches" and off we go. It does not do this when warm. Ideas on this? Is it related to #1?

3) I have the typical low RPM surge. I've played around with different configurations, including factory CCP, Steptoe jumper, no CCP, connected O2 sensor and disconnected O2 sensor. Right now, I'm running no CCP and the O2 sensor is disconnected, but it doesn't seem to help. I reset the Motronic by pulling the fuse for 5+ minutes, between each change. After I put the 3923 plugs in, it seemed to help some.

Other than these things, it runs great. Mileage, on E10, is between 36 and 41 MPG. Often, I'm fairly aggressive with the throttle, but It's better on the highway (as I would expect) I haven't been able to correlate a mileage difference with the various CCP/O2 combinations I've tried. Overall, the mileage seems a bit on the low side.

Lastly, if I roll off the throttle quickly, it decelerates hard. I believe this is caused by "overrun fuel cutoff." Can this be improved?

I'd love to fix the surging and increase the mileage, too. I have an Ice Air on order - will it help with any of the above issues?

[Wallowa]

Originally Posted by EKinOR

OK, I have some performance related questions on my 2002 R1150GS. It has 42k miles and the valves were adjusted and TB sync done at 38k miles, along with an oil change. I put new Autolite 3923 plugs (.035 gap) in 1k miles ago.

1) It's hard starting when cold. It takes at least two 4 second cranks to get started, and sometimes three or four attempts. Once warm, it fires right up. What might be the cause of this?

2) After a cold start, I usually let it warm up to one, sometimes two bars. Invariably, the first time I accelerate on to the road, it stumbles and lags for a second, then "catches" and off we go. It does not do this when warm. Ideas on this? Is it related to #1?

3) I have the typical low RPM surge. I've played around with different configurations, including factory CCP, Steptoe jumper, no CCP, connected O2 sensor and disconnected O2 sensor. Right now, I'm running no CCP and the O2 sensor is disconnected, but it doesn't seem to help. I reset the Motronic by pulling the fuse for 5+ minutes, between each change. After I put the 3923 plugs in, it seemed to help some.

Other than these things, it runs great. Mileage, on E10, is between 36 and 41 MPG. Often, I'm fairly aggressive with the throttle, but It's better on the highway (as I would expect) I haven't been able to correlate a mileage difference with the various CCP/O2 combinations I've tried. Overall, the mileage seems a bit on the low side.

Lastly, if I roll off the throttle quickly, it decelerates hard. I believe this is caused by "overrun fuel cutoff." Can this be improved?

I'd love to fix the surging and increase the mileage, too. I have an Ice Air on order - will it help with any of the above issues?

While the description of the state of tune or disconnected devices is interesting, but confusing to me, do you have an IICE Air on this bike?

Just a WAG...but too many "mods" or tweaks and it can be very hard to determine what is causing what to happen or not happen..the cause and effect links can be impossible to follow.

If you have specific performance 'problems' I would take the bike back to stock and add or substract one device at a time. Introduce only one variable and then re-test. Return to stock and try cranking in another variable...you get the idea.

[Happy Wanderer]

Originally Posted by EKinOR

OK, I have some performance related questions on my 2002 R1150GS. It has 42k miles and the valves were adjusted and TB sync done at 38k miles, along with an oil change. I put new Autolite 3923 plugs (.035 gap) in 1k miles ago.

1) It's hard starting when cold. It takes at least two 4 second cranks to get started, and sometimes three or four attempts. Once warm, it fires right up. What might be the cause of this?

2) After a cold start, I usually let it warm up to one, sometimes two bars. Invariably, the first time I accelerate on to the road, it stumbles and lags for a second, then "catches" and off we go. It does not do this when warm. Ideas on this? Is it related to #1?

3) I have the typical low RPM surge. I've played around with different configurations, including factory CCP, Steptoe jumper, no CCP, connected O2 sensor and disconnected O2 sensor. Right now, I'm running no CCP and the O2 sensor is disconnected, but it doesn't seem to help. I reset the Motronic by pulling the fuse for 5+ minutes, between each change. After I put the 3923 plugs in, it seemed to help some.

Other than these things, it runs great. Mileage, on E10, is between 36 and 41 MPG. Often, I'm fairly aggressive with the throttle, but It's better on the highway (as I would expect) I haven't been able to correlate a mileage difference with the various CCP/O2 combinations I've tried. Overall, the mileage seems a bit on the low side.

Lastly, if I roll off the throttle quickly, it decelerates hard. I believe this is caused by "overrun fuel cutoff." Can this be improved?

I'd love to fix the surging and increase the mileage, too. I have an Ice Air on order - will it help with any of the above issues?

If you don't have an IIce Air on the bike this thread is the wrong place to post your problem.
Moderator: Clean up on aisle 3!

Anyways...
- the correct gap for your plugs should be ,028 not .035 I believe. Don't re gap old plugs, they may break and wreak havoc.
- Have you cleaned the brass idle screws and the oriface they go into lately?
- How's your air filter? Clogged up with dirt and dust maybe?
- Who tuned the bike? If it was not you then you can't be sure the valves or the synch was done correctly.
- If the problem did not exist before you changed the plugs... start there! It's usually the last thing that got worked on that leads to the solution. Retrace steps methodically and change only one thing at a time.

- Oh and NO, The IceAir will not help with any of the issues you describe.

[Poolside]

Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer

If you don't have an IIce Air on the bike this thread is the wrong place to post your problem.
Moderator: Clean up on aisle 3!

Talk about cleanup, you guys don't need to re-quote his entire post.


Regarding whether EKinOR questions should be here, they seem central to me.
But you are right HW, we're not going to get into troubleshooting.

[Poolside]

Originally Posted by EKinOR

OK, I have some performance related questions on my 2002 R1150GS. It has 42k miles and the valves were adjusted and TB sync done at 38k miles, along with an oil change. I put new Autolite 3923 plugs (.035 gap) in 1k miles ago.

1) It's hard starting when cold. It takes at least two 4 second cranks to get started, and sometimes three or four attempts. Once warm, it fires right up. What might be the cause of this?
That type of difficulty in cold starting usually indicates some sort of problem with your bike.

2) After a cold start, I usually let it warm up to one, sometimes two bars. Invariably, the first time I accelerate on to the road, it stumbles and lags for a second, then "catches" and off we go. It does not do this when warm. Ideas on this? Is it related to #1?
Typically a warmup isn't required to prevent a "severe stumble" when wicking up the throttle during cold drive-off.

3) I have the typical low RPM surge. I've played around with different configurations, including factory CCP, Steptoe jumper, no CCP, connected O2 sensor and disconnected O2 sensor. Right now, I'm running no CCP and the O2 sensor is disconnected, but it doesn't seem to help. I reset the Motronic by pulling the fuse for 5+ minutes, between each change. After I put the 3923 plugs in, it seemed to help some.

Other than these things, it runs great. Mileage, on E10, is between 36 and 41 MPG. Often, I'm fairly aggressive with the throttle, but It's better on the highway (as I would expect) I haven't been able to correlate a mileage difference with the various CCP/O2 combinations I've tried. Overall, the mileage seems a bit on the low side.

Lastly, if I roll off the throttle quickly, it decelerates hard. I believe this is caused by "overrun fuel cutoff." Can this be improved?

I'd love to fix the surging and increase the mileage, too. I have an Ice Air on order - will it help with any of the above issues?

You have some good questions, EK. My comments above appear in orange. The severity of the startup and drive-off problems you describe seem to indicate a problem with the bike. As to your other questions, on a bike that cold starts normally, here's what you can expect from the IICE products: Throttle response and acceleration: All three products, the Air, Cool, and Smooth, improve throttle response and acceleration. Surging: The Cool is the solution to surging. Kills surging dead. Overrun Fuel Cutoff: The Cool disengages the ECU's overrun fuel cutoff function. Cold Starting: The Air improves cold starting. Cold drive-off and warmup: Both the Air and Cool improve cold drive-off and warmup characteristics. Recommended reading. Here's a chart that describes how Fuel Injection works, and how the IICE products fit in. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...4#post14523744

[Poolside]

Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 1 Pics
Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 2 Pics
Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 3 Pics
Build Process - Start to Finish - Group 4 Pics

...to be continued

The pics below show the building of a small batch of harnesses.

If you have questions about a particular step, PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THE ENTIRE RUN OF PICTURES.  Thank you.


Cut the wires and cable jacket to length.




Prep the wires by stripping one end to a precise length, and slip the waterproof seal over the wire.




Attach the wire and seal to the contact.




Closeup of 'socket' contact.




Closeup of 'tab' contact.




Ready to put all the pieces together. Insert a pair of wires, contacts, and seals into each connector housing.




Slip the wires through the cable jacket, and strip that end of the wires.




The harness wires get soldered into the four empty through holes on the board.




Next up, soldering the harness to the board.

...to be continued

[EKinOR]

Originally Posted by Wallowa

While the description of the state of tune or disconnected devices is interesting, but confusing to me, do you have an IICE Air on this bike?

See above - "I have an Ice Air on order"

Just a WAG...but too many "mods" or tweaks and it can be very hard to determine what is causing what to happen or not happen..the cause and effect links can be impossible to follow.

If you have specific performance 'problems' I would take the bike back to stock and add or substract one device at a time. Introduce only one variable and then re-test. Return to stock and try cranking in another variable...you get the idea.

Perhaps I wasn't clear - I only did one change at a time, resetting the Motronic between each change. I would make a change, reset, then ride for 100+ miles in varying conditions. Only one thing changed at a time.

[EKinOR]

Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer

If you don't have an IIce Air on the bike this thread is the wrong place to post your problem.

Why is this the wrong thread? It's not "The Ice Air Thread" it's "Hotrodding the GS", which, to me, implies dealing with performance issues on the "GS". Additionally, very knowledgeable people, such as Poolside and Roger04RT, frequent this thread and I was hoping to get their input.

Anyways...
- the correct gap for your plugs should be ,028 not .035 I believe. Don't re gap old plugs, they may break and wreak havoc.

You believe or you know? Factory spec is .031, but many people have reported good success with .035 on the Autolite plugs. And where did I say I regapped old plugs? Why would anyone use old plugs? They were new plugs, gapped properly using a plug gap tool. I've been setting spark plug gap for over 30 years and haven't had one break yet.

- Have you cleaned the brass idle screws and the oriface they go into lately?

Nope. Everything I've read says not to mess with the BBS.

- How's your air filter? Clogged up with dirt and dust maybe?

Nope, it's clean. And a clogged air filter generally affects high RPM performance first.

- Who tuned the bike? If it was not you then you can't be sure the valves or the synch was done correctly.

This is true. The valves and sync were done by a person very knowledgeable on the Boxer motor and specifically the oilheads. But, I did not witness it myself. If I can ever find a Harmonizer for sale, I'll check the sync myself.

- If the problem did not exist before you changed the plugs... start there! It's usually the last thing that got worked on that leads to the solution. Retrace steps methodically and change only one thing at a time.

Did you actually read what I wrote? The new plugs slightly improved things.

- Oh and NO, The IceAir will not help with any of the issues you describe.

Why do you say that? Poolside seems to think it will help with some of the issues.

[EKinOR]

Originally Posted by Poolside

You have some good questions, EK. My comments above appear in orange. The severity of the startup and drive-off problems you describe seem to indicate a problem with the bike.

Thank you. Any suggestions on where I should start troubleshooting, based on the hard start issue? The other interesting thing about this is it only happens on the first start up of the day. If the motor is at all warm, it fires right up. Also, I only get the hesitation/stumble on the first few tip in/leading throttle events after a hard start.

Recommended reading.
Here's a chart that describes how Fuel Injection works, and how the IICE products fit in.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...4#post14523744

Thanks! I'll read through it again.

[Happy Wanderer]

Originally Posted by EKinOR

Why is this the wrong thread? It's not "The Ice Air Thread" it's "Hotrodding the GS", which, to me, implies dealing with performance issues on the "GS". Additionally, very knowledgeable people, such as Poolside and Roger04RT, frequent this thread and I was hoping to get their input.

Actually, if you read all 3000+ posts I think you will find this is a thread about fuel injection issues and how Poolside's device is attempting to improve performance. But it is not a troubleshooting thread for bikes that are not tuned properly as far as I can tell.

You believe or you know? Factory spec is .031, but many people have reported good success with .035 on the Autolite plugs. And where did I say I regapped old plugs? Why would anyone use old plugs? They were new plugs, gapped properly using a plug gap tool. I've been setting spark plug gap for over 30 years and haven't had one break yet.

Apoligies for that. I was being lazy and using my memory. Airheads are .028 and your bike is .031. In either case .035 is not factory spec for the gap as stated in the factory manual I just checked. If a larger gap helps performance on your bike by all means go ahead! I prefer the BMW factory manual for such things.

By "old plugs" I mean the ones that are in the bike right now and have been "used". Once they get to operating temperature and by this I mean after you warm up and ride the bike it is not a good idea to re gap these "used" plugs because you run the risk of a now more brittle electrode breaking off. This advice was assuming you might correct the gap which is currently incorrect. Capiche?



Nope. Everything I've read says not to mess with the BBS.

Really? Well good luck balancing your throttle bodies at idle without touching those! By the way, they get all plugged up with carbon every so often and need to be cleaned. Not sure how you'd do that without messing with them either.

Did you actually read what I wrote? The new plugs slightly improved things.

Well actually yes I did. That is how I attempted to answer your question while trying to be of some help. But reading and comprehension are not really the same are they?


Why do you say that? Poolside seems to think it will help with some of the issues.

If you only want Poolside's opinions or responses why post in a public forum? Just send him a PM and spare us.

[Poolside]

Back again sweetcakes? Every couple of months just like clockwork.

[badbs101]

If I understand correctly, the upcoming Ice Cool product will work by spoofing the coolant/oil temperature sensor. Does this mean the temp bars on our display reading will be incorrect? Sorry if this question has been asked before.

Looking forward to the end of surging.