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Old 09-03-2012, 12:50 PM   #211
charlie264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Bean View Post
You can measure the coil resistance, but it is not trivial.

- Coil resistance (from blue-black wire to tthe thin wire coming out of the pump, connected to top of braker-points_: ~ 1.6 Ohm
This is very low for most cheap multimeaters. to measure this:
* Put Multimeter in OPhm, lowest rabge (usually 200Ohm range)
* sort-circuit the meter cables by pressing them together and see what the meter says.
* If it is more then 1 Ohm: Forget it... get another meter/change battery etc.
* If the meter says < 1 Ohm: Rember the numer (say 0.6 Ohm).
* now measure the coil of the pump: say you get 2.1 Ohm.
* substract the 'short-circuit value' and you have a 'reasonable' number

Also:
Measure from the blue-balck wire to the metal-outside of the put. This should me 'open'

Don't try to measure 'through' the contact breakers: that will only give you confusing data.

Pump test:
- Kill-swicth OFF
- make sure the contact breakers are in contact (if they are very bad: Clean them with a small file/sandpaper)
- Pump connected to the bike
- fuelpump-switch OK (and correct value)
- Ignition key ON
--> Now switch KILL-switch ON, and the pump rod should move 'outwards' at least 1x.

The ECU (computer) of the bike only keeps the pump active for 5 seconds.
To redo this test: killswicth OFF , and wait till the pump-rod is all the way back and the contact breakers are IN contact again.

IF the pump-rod does NOT move: through pump away

Do not use WD40: the pump has dry-brass bearings, they do not get better from lubrication.
Dr. Whatís the circuit inside the pump....Iím getting Zero ohms (quality multitester in its day) closed circuit from black wire from plug and thin black to points....If I put 12v across solenoid wires the rod doesnít move.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:57 PM   #212
Dr_Bean OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie264 View Post
Dr. What’s the circuit inside the pump....I’m getting Zero ohms (quality multitester in its day) closed circuit from black wire from plug and thin black to points....If I put 12v across solenoid wires the rod doesn’t move.
Inside the pump is a coil, and a diode parallel to the coil.

If you measure <1 Ohm, most likely the diode is burned. This happens more often if you wait till the contact-points are completely gone...
SEE: 1st rootcause: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=251

The diode is not needed for my kit, but if it is short-circuit, the pump won't work.
Most likely also your FP-Fuse in the bike is burned if the diode is shorted: surely the short-circuit current was supplied by the bike in some stage...

try another pump...
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:05 PM   #213
charlie264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Bean View Post
Inside the pump is a coil, and a diode parallel to the coil.

If you measure <1 Ohm, most likely the diode is burned. This happens more often if you wait till the contact-points are completely gone...
SEE: 1st rootcause: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=251

The diode is not needed for my kit, but if it is short-circuit, the pump won't work.
Most likely also your FP-Fuse in the bike is burned if the diode is shorted: surely the short-circuit current was supplied by the bike in some stage...

try another pump...
Cheers....will do. Thanks for your help. I'll see if I can get it completely apart tomorrow.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:11 PM   #214
crofrog
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Install was super easy bike runs great now with it installed.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:06 PM   #215
ontherock
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Got it in the mail today and installed it, works great! Thanks. The thin solder worked pretty well too. I used a super small screwdriver to help pull/ pry the wire seal back in from the outside, seemed to help.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:08 AM   #216
charlie264
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Dr Bean. I canít get my head around how the whole set up works? The ECU sends power to FP relay...relay sends power to FP points, FP pumps until???? How does the FP talk to ECU???
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:28 PM   #217
Gustavo.Ramos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie264 View Post
Dr Bean. I canít get my head around how the whole set up works? The ECU sends power to FP relay...relay sends power to FP points, FP pumps until???? How does the FP talk to ECU???
ECU!?

I'm not very technical skilled but i think the pump works by sesnsing lower fuel pressure and then impeling the pump shaft, then the shaft cuts the optic sensor, which sends a signal to an electric circuit to stop impeling the shaft. A spring on the shaft, makes it go back, the optic sensor "sees" the shaft is not there anymore, there goes a sign to the electric circuit to impel the pump shaft again, and the cycle repeats itself as long as there is not enough pressure to stop it. E.g. kill switch on, pump working for a few secs, if the engine does not start, fuel pressure will build up and the pump stops working until that pressure is relieved and the cycle goes on again...

correct me if i'm wrong
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:05 AM   #218
charlie264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo.Ramos View Post
ECU!?

I'm not very technical skilled but i think the pump works by sesnsing lower fuel pressure and then impeling the pump shaft, then the shaft cuts the optic sensor, which sends a signal to an electric circuit to stop impeling the shaft. A spring on the shaft, makes it go back, the optic sensor "sees" the shaft is not there anymore, there goes a sign to the electric circuit to impel the pump shaft again, and the cycle repeats itself as long as there is not enough pressure to stop it. E.g. kill switch on, pump working for a few secs, if the engine does not start, fuel pressure will build up and the pump stops working until that pressure is relieved and the cycle goes on again...

correct me if i'm wrong
Makes sense. Cheers.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:03 AM   #219
420
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Mounted and works just fine!

I mounted my fuelpumpkit last weekend and it wasnt to difficult and it works just fine!
I am so glad that I dont need the vacuumpump I had replaced the shitty originalpump with.
Now everything is working as it should. Big thank you!







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Old 09-09-2012, 12:36 PM   #220
buzybraza
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I got one!

I installed a Dr. Bean kit about 1000 miles ago on my beloved 950 SE!
I am a believer!!!
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:04 AM   #221
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Hi,

I will answer all PMs asap.... I Just came back from the Balkan rally:
http://balkanoffroad.com/

about the fuelpump: "how it works"

You are almost correct:

1st of all:
The ECU (the electronic control unit, located below the 'glove-box') in the bike switches the power to the fuelpump ON after you turn the ignition key (+killswitch) to ON. It does this through the fuelpump-relais. IF the engine is NOT running, the ECU will turn this power OFF again after 5 seconds, and only ON again when either the engine starts running, or you will turn the killswitch/key OFF-and-ON again.
This is a safety in case the engine is not running, but fuel would be leaking out of the carburetor because e.g. the bike is on its side...

This is all KTM-original, and has nothing to do with my kit/electronics.

My kit is IN the pump and just replaces the function of the contact breakers.

How the pump works:
the pump is a diaphragm pump, which works a bit like a hart.

A coil/solenoid pulls the pump-rod 'out' when it is activated (current flowing through it) and makes the pump-chamber suck fuel IN.
When the pump-rod is almost at its end the contact-breakers OPEN, and de-activate the solenoid.
A spring in the pump now pushed the pump-rod back, emptying the pump-chamber towards the carburetor.
The carburetor has a normal floater: When there is enough fuel it closed the fuel-line. This means the pump will NOT empty and the pump-rod will not run back.
Only when the pump-rod is almost back (spring decompressed) the contact breakers will close again and re-activate the solenoid/coil. starting over the complete cycle.

My kit replaces the contact breakers and:
- detects the position of the pump-rod with an optical detection: activating the coil when the spring is fully decompressed.
- switches the main-current of the pump with and electronic switch (power mosfet)
- includes a damping diode to avoid power spikes, and
- it also activates the pump 1x per 2-to-3 seconds anyway (even if the pump is not empty): this is a safety run mode: When EVER the optical detection would fail, e.g. because it would be dirty, you still get some fuel, enough to run 40mph and get home/to a garage: clean the optical detection and it should be ok again.
Myself, I was the only one to ever experience the need of this, after I completely flooded the pump with mud-water, after getting to s stand in deep water for quite some time :-) ....

Hope this clarifies: feel free to ask!

regards
Dr_Bean
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:46 PM   #222
dzrtracin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Bean View Post
Hi,

I will answer all PMs asap.... I Just came back from the Balkan rally:
http://balkanoffroad.com/

about the fuelpump: "how it works"

You are almost correct:

1st of all:
The ECU (the electronic control unit, located below the 'glove-box') in the bike switches the power to the fuelpump ON after you turn the ignition key (+killswitch) to ON. It does this through the fuelpump-relais. IF the engine is NOT running, the ECU will turn this power OFF again after 5 seconds, and only ON again when either the engine starts running, or you will turn the killswitch/key OFF-and-ON again.
This is a safety in case the engine is not running, but fuel would be leaking out of the carburetor because e.g. the bike is on its side...

This is all KTM-original, and has nothing to do with my kit/electronics.

My kit is IN the pump and just replaces the function of the contact breakers.

How the pump works:
the pump is a diaphragm pump, which works a bit like a hart.

A coil/solenoid pulls the pump-rod 'out' when it is activated (current flowing through it) and makes the pump-chamber suck fuel IN.
When the pump-rod is almost at its end the contact-breakers OPEN, and de-activate the solenoid.
A spring in the pump now pushed the pump-rod back, emptying the pump-chamber towards the carburetor.
The carburetor has a normal floater: When there is enough fuel it closed the fuel-line. This means the pump will NOT empty and the pump-rod will not run back.
Only when the pump-rod is almost back (spring decompressed) the contact breakers will close again and re-activate the solenoid/coil. starting over the complete cycle.

My kit replaces the contact breakers and:
- detects the position of the pump-rod with an optical detection: activating the coil when the spring is fully decompressed.
- switches the main-current of the pump with and electronic switch (power mosfet)
- includes a damping diode to avoid power spikes, and
- it also activates the pump 1x per 2-to-3 seconds anyway (even if the pump is not empty): this is a safety run mode: When EVER the optical detection would fail, e.g. because it would be dirty, you still get some fuel, enough to run 40mph and get home/to a garage: clean the optical detection and it should be ok again.
Myself, I was the only one to ever experience the need of this, after I completely flooded the pump with mud-water, after getting to s stand in deep water for quite some time :-) ....

Hope this clarifies: feel free to ask!

regards
Dr_Bean
Looking forward to hearinbg back. Hope the rally was ROCKING!

RIDE ON!
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:15 PM   #223
preppypyro
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I ordered a kit from Mr Dr Bean awhile ago, just wanna give him some praise. I havent been able to install his kit yet (gonna do it in the winter when I cant ride) but he was super helpful, and the package he sent came quick over to the great white north! Cant wait to try it out either!
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:36 AM   #224
roookie1
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Installed the kit two days ago. Pretty easy, and works great.
I was lazy so I instllad the kit with the pump on the bike without disconnetning the hoses, still fairly easy..

Lying on my back soldering is for me a new experience though

Gerben is a nice guy, I have had good contact with him..

Thanks Gerben
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:24 AM   #225
mattc
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I recently Removed my Facet 40171 because from the start, it allowed fuel to bleed through and into the carbs, causing hard starts and tons of white smoke from unburned fuel. This was after sitting for a couple hours or overnight.

I used Dr. Bean's kit on the stock fuel pump and so far so good.



Thanks for all your assistance Dr. Bean.
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