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Old 09-06-2012, 08:44 AM   #46
joec63 OP
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
Ah, I should have searched harder - thanks Joe - and informative [and entertaining!] read!

Jx
No problem, don't think you can go wrong with either one. The WR is a little more sophisticated in the HP output and suspension areas and on the tall side compared to the CRFL. The CRFL is closer to the KLX/XT250 in specs.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:38 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by joec63 View Post
No problem, don't think you can go wrong with either one. The WR is a little more sophisticated in the HP output and suspension areas and on the tall side compared to the CRFL. The CRFL is closer to the KLX/XT250 in specs.
No, the KLX and the XT250 are not in the same category. They both may be in the 250 DS category by marketing and brochure bundling, but that's about it. Here's a link/post from the other CRFL thread where a poster asked about the differences between the new Honda and the KLX250 that I tried to be as honest as possible. The KLX is basically like the WRR except with a carb. This is the problem with folks just jumping out there and making a new thread because they got their shorts in a wad. You plow the same ground over and over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett
Anyone know how the CRF compares to the klx250?
Are they really close?
Carb/FI is no big deal to me, I like both.
My old shop I used to work at got one of the Hondas a couple of weeks ago, and I got to check it out. They're a Yamaha, Honda, and Kawasaki shop. I also own a highly modded '06 KLX250. Stock for stock, the Honda has a stronger engine IMO...so does the WR250R. Just having FI seems to allow those two bikes to run better right off the floor. The KLX is so corked up and "emissioned" in its jetting setup. It's practically a dog. However, just a few mods later, and the character of the KLX changes dramatically, and the playing field becomes much more level. It's in the suspension department that the KLX and WRR really shine over the Honda. This is where Honda seems to have saved the money reflected in the price. It's just a little bit heavier too.

The Honda gives up a little too much in the suspension travel to really be competitive to the WRR and KLX for really rough off roading as delivered. It won't be that it's not capable of off roading, but it's suspension components have less travel and not quite as high a quality. That said, not everyone wants or needs to ride their dual sport like I ride my KLX. This Honda fits a nice niche of price, value, and performance. Not everyone needs or wants the same bike for the same use. The KLX will have a good deal more potential for off road use. The Honda will probably be superior on pavement...especially as delivered in stock condition. For guys who never leave their bikes stock, the KLX and WRR have more potential. Many parts and mods are available for those two bikes at the moment. You know that the Honda will eventually get more options as time goes by. One advantage of the KLX is that it is realistically based on the off road-only KLX300...especially the '06/'07 KLX250S. They are 11" travel bikes, and they have KYB suspension components that respond well to Race Tech and other revalving kits to achieve some real off road performance. Again, this isn't everyone's cup-o-tea. The '09 and later KLX went to 10" of travel, but is otherwise basically the same bike as the previous models. The Honda at 8.5" travel starts a bit in the hole if some relatively tough off roading is desired.

Those are the main differences that come to my mind at the moment. The Honda is a good bike. I was impressed by the engine. It's slightly increased weight and decreased travel don't fit my needs, but the Honda is going to fit the needs and desires of many riders out there. I almost wish Honda had made two versions of this bike. I'd be willing to fork over another $1000 to get 10" of Showa quality suspension as delivered on a more dirt oriented model, even at the current weight.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:57 AM   #48
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Let's just talk stock bikes for comparison. These three are each others competition and they will be cross shopped as to my comment. The KLX may be corked up and I'm sure it applies to the Honda also. The travel differences aren't that extreme.

KLX Stock
10 in Front travel
9.1 in Rear travel
11 in Ground Clearance

Honda
8.7 in Front
9.4 in Rear
10in Ground Clearance
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:24 AM   #49
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Travel numbers do not tell the whole story when it comes to capability. I ride a DR650 and in stock form the travel numbers are very good but the feel was not so much. A few hundred dollars later the travel didn't change but I can assure you its now a more capable handler than I am.

Ride one then the other over some roughness and you will understand better what I am getting at.

A new stock KLR650 for instance has less travel than a stock DR650 but the feel of the bikes suspension was shockingly opposite in my experience.

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Old 09-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #50
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I'm sure the aftermarket will have suspension mods for this bike at some point. RICOR is in my town. I should stop in with the bike some time and see if they want to take a crack at it. I'm not a good enough rider in the dirt to know what I like. I'm glad I just stay upright. The only thing I've noticed is the rear end is kind of bouncy when it gets rough. I need to educate myself on suspension.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:53 PM   #51
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Any of you CRF owners (or anyone else) tried a set of Aerostich tank panniers on your bike yet?



http://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-tank-panniers.html

I am in the process of picking up some "stuff" for a bike that is not in my garage yet- it's a disease

I got a 'Stich 10 percent discount burning a hole in my pocket

Any concerns or complaints or fitment issues etc on the panniers?

I would like to hear about it.

thanks
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:30 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19Tony View Post
I'm sure the aftermarket will have suspension mods for this bike at some point. RICOR is in my town. I should stop in with the bike some time and see if they want to take a crack at it. I'm not a good enough rider in the dirt to know what I like. I'm glad I just stay upright. The only thing I've noticed is the rear end is kind of bouncy when it gets rough. I need to educate myself on suspension.
Tony, do we know yet if the Honda has a cartridge fork damper or a ported orifice damper? Only because of price am I thinking it might be a ported orifice damper. If it is then Ricor's setup might improve it. I used their valves in a KLR650 fork, and it was a definite improvement. It would be better if it's a cartridge fork, however. The Ricor valves wouldn't be applicable then.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #53
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The forks are Showa's inverted Separate Function. Apparently it uses a pressure separation damper in one fork and spring in the other. All I know about it.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:56 PM   #54
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I'm an old rider with over 40 years and half a million miles of experience, and have owned 41 motorcycles, from Goldwings and 1500cc cruisers to tiny street and dual sport bikes. Also a few dirt only bikes. For a dual sport bike, I am currently riding an '01 Yamaha XT225, with a Clarke 4 gallon tank, Stearns seat cover, super heavy duty rear spring (I weigh 220), bar risers, a kickstart kit, an Immix Racing type rack (I got mine from Bryan Swenson before Immix stole his design), A Cigar Mike centerstand, a modified (drilled out) stock pipe, and upjetted carb. This is not a hardcore dirt bike, but may be the worlds best trail bike. Yet I find myself interested in the new CRF250L, and if a luggage rack became available for it, I could probably be persuaded to sell my XT and get one.

My XT has a foam air filter which can be cleaned, reoiled, and reused several times. After a day long ride in the AZ desert, it is so caked with dirt, chunks have fallen off and are laying in the airbox. I was considering an XT250, till I found out it had an expensive and uncleanable PAPER air filter. I'm hoping the CRF250L has a foam filter. If not, Honda made one huge mistake. Having to replace a $25 air filter after one days riding can get real expensive.


I do not believe the FI can be reprogrammed, it is what it is. It's only real purpose is to lower emissions, not make more power. I know for a fact that the Suzuki TU250 FI cannot be modified.

I absolutely positively DO NOT recommend getting any kind of extended warranty or service plan, About half my motorcycles were bought new (that's about 20 motorcycles) and I never needed it even once. And by not getting it on 20 new motorcycles, I saved an absolute fortune. If I get one of these baby's, I will pay cash, and save another fortune in interest and insurance. I am a fleet services mechanic, and work on everything from large diesel trucks and construction equipment, to cars and pickups, to weedeaters and chainsaws. I have always done my own service and repair. There should not be any maintenance on the CRF that an average owner cannot do, with the exception of the fuel injection. When it goes, it goes. With a manual, an owner should be able to troubleshoot it, but it uses several hundred dollars worth of electronics, and if the fuel pump or ECU fail, it will cost a fortune to replace them. You cannot tinker with FI like you could with carbs, and there is no way to rig it to get you home..
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:59 PM   #55
G19Tony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siyeh View Post
Any of you CRF owners (or anyone else) tried a set of Aerostich tank panniers on your bike yet?



http://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-tank-panniers.html

I am in the process of picking up some "stuff" for a bike that is not in my garage yet- it's a disease

I got a 'Stich 10 percent discount burning a hole in my pocket

Any concerns or complaints or fitment issues etc on the panniers?

I would like to hear about it.

thanks
I just ordered a set of Wolfman panniers. I'm just taking a shot that they work. If they don't, I may be able to use them on the Versys.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:34 PM   #56
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Pain in the ass.

Be patient this is sent from my phone.

For those of you looking to change bars and grips be forewarned, I've discovered why these bikes are so cheap. The stock bars have no less than three locator pin holes on them, meaning you can try drilling replacement bars which seems like and impossible task, or grind off the stubs in the switchgear pods, unfortunately when you do this you will discover that the switchgear does not clamp to the bars, it needs the pins to keep them from spinning around the bars. I solved this with a few wraps of self sealing wire sheathing, very rubbery and once applied rarely moves. On the grips front, Honda has seen fit to use one of the throttle tube grip combos that only work with each other and with no other grip or tube on earth. And the CRF250L does not use the same throttle tube as the MX models or the 230 I suspect. So if like me you wish to change your grips for grippier, higher quality grips such as renthals et al you will be left with a gap of about 1/2" and exposed plastic grip engagement molding.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:47 PM   #57
taninthai
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Originally Posted by Wargasm View Post
Be patient this is sent from my phone.

For those of you looking to change bars and grips be forewarned, I've discovered why these bikes are so cheap. The stock bars have no less than three locator pin holes on them, meaning you can try drilling replacement bars which seems like and impossible task, or grind off the stubs in the switchgear pods, unfortunately when you do this you will discover that the switchgear does not clamp to the bars, it needs the pins to keep them from spinning around the bars. I solved this with a few wraps of self sealing wire sheathing, very rubbery and once applied rarely moves. On the grips front, Honda has seen fit to use one of the throttle tube grip combos that only work with each other and with no other grip or tube on earth. And the CRF250L does not use the same throttle tube as the MX models or the 230 I suspect. So if like me you wish to change your grips for grippier, higher quality grips such as renthals et al you will be left with a gap of about 1/2" and exposed plastic grip engagement molding.
I didnt have any of those problems simply filed down the raised part of the throttle sleeve so the new renthal grips slide right up to the switch gear I have no 1/2 inch gap
As for drilling the handle bars it was no problem at all and gives you complete piece of mind that everything is tight and cannot spin round for some people they don't like to drill their new bars but for me 100% drill the bars and not rely on tape or sticky wire to hold it all in place.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:55 PM   #58
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need some owners opinions

Any opinions on how the CRF250L will move along with a 280 lb rider ?

No dirt riding ,
simply in town commuting to work
( my town is 60% up and down hills )
and an occasional 12 mile jaunt down the interstate
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:59 PM   #59
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No, that is not why

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargasm View Post
Be patient this is sent from my phone.

For those of you looking to change bars and grips be forewarned, I've discovered why these bikes are so cheap. The stock bars have no less than three locator pin holes on them, meaning you can try drilling replacement bars which seems like and impossible task, or grind off the stubs in the switchgear pods, unfortunately when you do this you will discover that the switchgear does not clamp to the bars, it needs the pins to keep them from spinning around the bars. I solved this with a few wraps of self sealing wire sheathing, very rubbery and once applied rarely moves. On the grips front, Honda has seen fit to use one of the throttle tube grip combos that only work with each other and with no other grip or tube on earth. And the CRF250L does not use the same throttle tube as the MX models or the 230 I suspect. So if like me you wish to change your grips for grippier, higher quality grips such as renthals et al you will be left with a gap of about 1/2" and exposed plastic grip engagement molding.
My xr650L was the same way.... most new Hondas are.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:59 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by TNC View Post
No, the KLX and the XT250 are not in the same category. They both may be in the 250 DS category by marketing and brochure bundling, but that's about it. Here's a link/post from the other CRFL thread where a poster asked about the differences between the new Honda and the KLX250 that I tried to be as honest as possible. The KLX is basically like the WRR except with a carb. This is the problem with folks just jumping out there and making a new thread because they got their shorts in a wad. You plow the same ground over and over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett
Anyone know how the CRF compares to the klx250?
Are they really close?
Carb/FI is no big deal to me, I like both.
My old shop I used to work at got one of the Hondas a couple of weeks ago, and I got to check it out. They're a Yamaha, Honda, and Kawasaki shop. I also own a highly modded '06 KLX250. Stock for stock, the Honda has a stronger engine IMO...so does the WR250R. Just having FI seems to allow those two bikes to run better right off the floor. The KLX is so corked up and "emissioned" in its jetting setup. It's practically a dog. However, just a few mods later, and the character of the KLX changes dramatically, and the playing field becomes much more level. It's in the suspension department that the KLX and WRR really shine over the Honda. This is where Honda seems to have saved the money reflected in the price. It's just a little bit heavier too.

The Honda gives up a little too much in the suspension travel to really be competitive to the WRR and KLX for really rough off roading as delivered. It won't be that it's not capable of off roading, but it's suspension components have less travel and not quite as high a quality. That said, not everyone wants or needs to ride their dual sport like I ride my KLX. This Honda fits a nice niche of price, value, and performance. Not everyone needs or wants the same bike for the same use. The KLX will have a good deal more potential for off road use. The Honda will probably be superior on pavement...especially as delivered in stock condition. For guys who never leave their bikes stock, the KLX and WRR have more potential. Many parts and mods are available for those two bikes at the moment. You know that the Honda will eventually get more options as time goes by. One advantage of the KLX is that it is realistically based on the off road-only KLX300...especially the '06/'07 KLX250S. They are 11" travel bikes, and they have KYB suspension components that respond well to Race Tech and other revalving kits to achieve some real off road performance. Again, this isn't everyone's cup-o-tea. The '09 and later KLX went to 10" of travel, but is otherwise basically the same bike as the previous models. The Honda at 8.5" travel starts a bit in the hole if some relatively tough off roading is desired.

Those are the main differences that come to my mind at the moment. The Honda is a good bike. I was impressed by the engine. It's slightly increased weight and decreased travel don't fit my needs, but the Honda is going to fit the needs and desires of many riders out there. I almost wish Honda had made two versions of this bike. I'd be willing to fork over another $1000 to get 10" of Showa quality suspension as delivered on a more dirt oriented model, even at the current weight.
Yes, the KLX is a far superior machine to the CRFL....

Really? I have personally ridden both on the same day and in varying terrain, and wholeheartedly dissagree. I wont bother talking about power because as you have agreed, even a "corked" CRFL will easily pull on a modded out KLX. regarding suspension, while the crfl may not have all of the adjustability and a hair less travel, it felt much better planted through turns in sand and packed dirt and soaked up the choppy stuff with ease compared to the KLX I rode. The CRFL also felt better on the small jumps we were hitting and did not bottom out once, unlike the KLX. BTW this was a 2009 KLX250S with a slip on and jet kit, stock susp.. The owner of the KLX (Who is a good friend of mine) started immediately bashing on his own bike after we switched back. He and I have been riding in the pine barons for 20 years and now that were old and married, we decided to get dual sports. Needless to say, he is already looking to sell his KLX and pick up a CRFL.

...Now dont get me wrong, the KLX is a decent machine but to put it on the same level as a WRR and then to basically say it is superior to a CRFL and that the CRFL is really only good for pavement duty...is just asinine.
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