Dirt Bike History 101

[skorpioskorpio]

The first CRs were hot bikes but within a couple years the sport was dominated by factory works bikes. The YZs and RMs were not much different than what Yamaha and Suzuki were competing with while Honda was selling a kinder gentler bike to the public that had very little in common with the RCs they were racing, well actually nothing in common. It took quite a few years for Honda to give the public a taste of the tech they were giving the factory riders. Marty Smith was riding mythical stuff when the public was buying trail bikes that dad and big brother could go out riding with little brother on his MR50 or XR75. There was a time there for a while when if you were an independent and you wanted to be competitive you better be riding something yellow.

And don't get me wrong I always thought the Honda was a better made bike, and that is what I always had, I was always on a 4 stroke, but even friends with those early CRs couldn't even keep up with TMs by the mid 70s, and that was Suzuki's trail bike.

[jub jub]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

I forgot about that one. so it was 2 years silver tank low pipe and then 1 year silver tank up pipe with massive silencer. then came the first red tank which a friend of mine had and that one was really received poorly but like I said it was a step in the right direction once they got that red tank up pipe dialed in they were unstoppable.

Correct.

Only difference between the M1 and M2 was the color. The M2 was painted entirely red. So when the M2 came out the following year, I stripped mine down and painted it red and ordered the red fenders from Honda. Voila, I had an M2.

Looked on the web for a good image, this is the best I could find. Notice the M1 minus the big muffler. Mine didn't have it so I'm thinking either the dealer didn't put it on or the Oz bikes didn't come with one.

[jub jub]

Originally Posted by skorpioskorpio

The first CRs were hot bikes but within a couple years the sport was dominated by factory works bikes. The YZs and RMs were not much different than what Yamaha and Suzuki were competing with while Honda was selling a kinder gentler bike to the public that had very little in common with the RCs they were racing, well actually nothing in common. It took quite a few years for Honda to give the public a taste of the tech they were giving the factory riders. Marty Smith was riding mythical stuff when the public was buying trail bikes that dad and big brother could go out riding with little brother on his MR50 or XR75. There was a time there for a while when if you were an independent and you wanted to be competitive you better be riding something yellow.

And don't get me wrong I always thought the Honda was a better made bike, and that is what I always had, I was always on a 4 stroke, but even friends with those early CRs couldn't even keep up with TMs by the mid 70s, and that was Suzuki's trail bike.

After racing the Honda for a year, I got my hands on slightly used Suzuki RM370B. It was raced in Adelaide at a National by some big time GP MXer. I can't remember his name but he dominated both open class motos. After the race, they announced the bike would be for sale at Suzuki of Adelaide. I drove down the following Tuesday and purchased it. That bike was awesome and my riding skill improved two fold over what I was doing on the Honda. The RM was such a confidence inspiring bike, it was hard not to be fast!

Yes, you are correct in the fact Honda was holding out on the public.

[Thumpermeister]

Originally Posted by roadholder

That's a sofa compared to a modern trials bike!

If you can even call those seats!

[Thumpermeister]

Originally Posted by roadholder

Just came across this link. More here: http://sasquatchvintageracing.smugmug.com/Other

Good fun!

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by skorpioskorpio

The first CRs were hot bikes but within a couple years the sport was dominated by factory works bikes.

on the factory level yes. looking at 73-83 I would think Honda had the "best" bike as much as Yam/Suz. All depends what year and what size engine.

[Strong Bad]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

on the factory level yes. looking at 73-83 I would think Honda had the "best" bike as much as Yam/Suz. All depends what year and what size engine.

Back in the day when I was at FMF, we made products for Honda, Suzuk, and Yami. The Hondas and the Suzuks both benefited from almost identical mods; a wee bit O' porting, a head, and a pipe. The "works" bikes all of the factory teams campaigned were NOTHING like the public could get. Perhaps Suzuk & Yammi did a better job of hiding it, but the materials (just in Ti & Mag alone) were nothing like the locals could get.

[MoMan]

I remember some privateer (son/father team) back in '77 or '78 tried to purchase a factory Honda RC under some rule and all hell was released.
The next year all factory bikes were basically the same as the showroom version minus the Ti, Mag and other special parts. Anyone remember this?


me on my 1978 Suzuki RM250C2 at Casey Motorsports in Casey, IL fighting for the holeshot with my friend & mentor Kim Armstrong on the Honda CR250

Originally Posted by Strong Bad

Back in the day when I was at FMF, we made products for Honda, Suzuk, and Yami. The Hondas and the Suzuks both benefited from almost identical mods; a wee bit O' porting, a head, and a pipe. The "works" bikes all of the factory teams campaigned were NOTHING like the public could get. Perhaps Suzuk & Yammi did a better job of hiding it, but the materials (just in Ti & Mag alone) were nothing like the locals could get.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by Strong Bad

Back in the day when I was at FMF, we made products for Honda, Suzuk, and Yami. The Hondas and the Suzuks both benefited from almost identical mods; a wee bit O' porting, a head, and a pipe. The "works" bikes all of the factory teams campaigned were NOTHING like the public could get. Perhaps Suzuk & Yammi did a better job of hiding it, but the materials (just in Ti & Mag alone) were nothing like the locals could get.

I guess what I was sugesting was that Yamaha and Suzuki were offering hotter race type bikes, I understand that you can't offer real "works" bikes to the public when you are selling them for a grand. But no manufactures works bikes were so far away from the consumer bike than mid to late seventies Hondas...Oh wait I forgot about Kawasaki, they had works bikes (that didn't win, but did finish occasionally in a pro field which is saying something) and their public offering wasn't competitive against bikes 2 classes below. It's funny what a differece that decade made in the end. Just my opinion but I think bikes (all bikes) advanced more in that 10 years than in 30 years before or after.

[Bendernz]

Originally Posted by MoMan

I remember some privateer (son/father team) back in '77 or '78 tried to purchase a factory Honda RC under some rule and all hell was released.
The next year all factory bikes were basically the same as the showroom version minus the Ti, Mag and other special parts. Anyone remember this?

In 1979 John Roeder used the AMA's "Claiming Rule" to claim Marty Tripes' RC250 Honda. He had tried a couple of times to claim works bikes and failed, once a super-trick water cooled Yamaha 125.

But this time he succeeded, saying he thought it would be cool to own one of the hand crafted, super expensive works bikes, but mainly because he thought the factories were hypocritical because what their stars were riding were so far removed from what was available to the punter. And they were, not a single item was transferable from the works bikes to a showroom bike.

Roeder stripped the engine and looked at it, then the bike featured in a Cycle Magazine. After that it was put away, unusued, in a shed. It is still in healthy condition.

After this the AMA dropped the rule.

Two further rule changes ended the reign of the mighty works bikes, One was a weight limit of 209lbs for the 1973 (which nobbled the under 200lb Suzuki RH250s and RN400s) and in 1986 a mandate for production-based bikes. This was pushed by Yamaha, concerned at the runaway success of Honda, which was spending seemingly unlimited sums on its hyper-exotic, hand built HRC machines.

[Strong Bad]

I seem to remember a story back in the early 70's about a couple of "works" Suzukis getting stolen. If I remember right, one was Robert's. The guys who stole them got caught when after seizing the bike, the damaged piston was taken into the local Suzuki dealer. Looking at the piston, the guy working the counter had no idea what it could have came off of and apparently the guy who had stolen the bikes had no idea what he had, as he took the guy out to show him that it indeed came off of a Suzuki!

[jub jub]

This is the RM370B I picked for $1200.00! Can you imagine buying one that cheap today!




This was my riding/racing buddy. He went down to Adelaide with me when I picked up the 370 and he bought the 250 that was raced by the same rider. We were both chomping at the bit to get home and put them to the test. This is also the same fellow with the 73 Elsinore.

[roadholder]

1974 Bad Rock ISDT Qualifier and other pics from Enduro 360 site.






Love the mouth guard!

[jub jub]

Originally Posted by roadholder

1974 Bad Rock ISDT Qualifier and other pics from Enduro 360 site.


Love the mouth guard!

Is that a mouth guard from a football helmet?

[KansasBob]

This fiberglass air box came with a group of parts I bought from an old dirt bike dealer in 2007 and I have never been able to match it up with a bike. I would Give it to someone who owns the bike it fits, and would love to know what it came off of.