Extended Carbon Fiber beak.....Help me design it....

[ebrabaek]

Does'nt this look hideous.....?????? Seriously..... imho...it's better than the sm fender..... at least to me it is.... but it sort of messes with da lines..... wadayathink??????....Of course...just imagine the low fender is gone.... Let's call this Option Number 1

[zgfiredude]

I'd have to see it without the lower in place, but it looks a little "nose heavy" to me.

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by zgfiredude

I'd have to see it without the lower in place, but it looks a little "nose heavy" to me.

Agreed. Which is exactly why I have not decided to tackle this before...... I am working on option 2, which is leave the beak alone, and tinker with stretching the black front of the beak. I already like that better, as no repainting is necessary. You would have to shoot me.....or offer me irish ale.....to get me to paint over my CF...... This way I think that the front plastic be replaced with a slightly longer Carbon Fiber piece....will be better. Drawback, is that I would need to make it a two piece mould.....which means cost more.....

[SDDinNH]

I think it's the "straight" section that needed to be inserted to lengthen it that makes it look slightly odd. Your idea of making it longer in the nose section may correct that if it doesn't come out looking too narrow up there.

Of course this does eliminate the "Gonzo" look

[gpracer171]

As you know I have interest in this for some time. I could live with the look of option one as it is better than the low fender that I hate. However, I must say that though it is a bit more work in sculpting the piece, the longer front extension is where I would place my vote.

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by SDDinNH

I think it's the "straight" section that needed to be inserted to lengthen it that makes it look slightly odd. Your idea of making it longer in the nose section may correct that if it doesn't come out looking too narrow up there.

Of course this does eliminate the "Gonzo" look

Ha ha.... yessir....

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by gpracer171

As you know I have interest in this for some time. I could live with the look of option one as it is better than the low fender that I hate. However, I must say that though it is a bit more work in sculpting the piece, the longer front extension is where I would place my vote.

When it was all set and done.... the beak was now 2 1/4 inch further forward, and geometrically.... good clearance at full front stroke. As soon as the option is chosen... that low front fender gets ripped of.

[ebrabaek]

After studying it all day..... I think the option two is going to be the ticket. You retain the beak, it it's natural color...... and replace the tooth part black plastic with a nice CF toothy front part..... Many times when I design pieces..... I walkabout for a while, and then a light usually goes on. In visualizing this.... The light went on this afternoon.
So two piece of release agent applied.....and one layer of epoxy. This is just to protect the original, and to smooth it for casting.



Wheres my light saber.....
Tomorrow the sculpting begins.......

[MTrider16]

Hmm... I dunno. With the F8GS and most of the other GS offerings by BMW, I think function is more important than form. It certianly has never been as sexy as the Honda Intercepter VFR800. Thus I don't see much to dither about, make something that works and go for it. Just my $.02.

I'm pretty sure whatever you decide will be a quality build.

David

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by ebrabaek

Before I start a project, I do a little testing first. In this case..... I knew the angles were pretty crazy for a non vacuum layup. So I first try to see if it is feasible to do this. I begin as such, so if it does not work... I don't have a lot of time in the piece....like foam extension, that all breaks away when I separate the two pieces. Second. ...I try to make a cast of the part needed to be worked, if possible and then save the original, so when I f%$# it up..... No harm done. That is what this cast would serve as.By now I could have made a print.,.... sand...buff....etc, and be done with it, but as there have been interest here, I am focusing not just on me, but on perhaps a future production, and as always it has to make sense financially. And when you step into the realm of vacuum bagging, there is another cost associated with it. Historically, that does not work in the favor of the small shop, as the pieces simply becomes too expensive for people to buy. That is why you have not seen me do any of those.... Plus it is a pain in the a$$, and you tend to disturb more than you help. I will try a few things today, and see what I come up with......
Look on the two aft corners, and the two forward center part of the beak.... see the pull off. Everything else is good. What happens.... mould making 101.....When you have a sharp 90 deg. corner, as the matrix cures, it creates a bit of heat. That heat is what is spiraling out of control as exothermic runaway when you have a pool of resin. Weather you set the piece out in the sun....or it created its own heat the polymeric composition changes. Like...... its tacky........ you add the sun..... now it re-flows again. That happens until the polymers have aligned and set. In that process the fabric...sort of can disturb itself, and that is where vacuum bagging can be helpful, as it holds the matrix in place....regardless of what goes on. Truthfully, I am surprised that it only pulled in the corners...... But I have done this more than once.... This piece would serve a few casts, before it would be in need of work, but I am not trying to copy a stock beak in Carbon Fiber.

I can see how vacuum bagging could be expensive for a small production shop, or even the hobbiest, and I can see how it could have its own learning curve - but, could you elaborate on why you feel that it could be or is difficult?

One aspect of bagging that is attractive to me is that it helps reduce BUBBLES!!!

Thanks, Earling!

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by therivermonster

I can see how vacuum bagging could be expensive for a small production shop, or even the hobbiest, and I can see how it could have its own learning curve - but, could you elaborate on why you feel that it could be or is difficult?

One aspect of bagging that is attractive to me is that it helps reduce BUBBLES!!!

Thanks, Earling!

Yeppers......
Vacuum bagging offers several benefits......but also several drawbacks. Lets start with the good. Biggest benefit.... It holds the new layup in place, following even the craziest if sharp angles. Second....It squeezes excess resin out and makes for a strong layup, in the process most bubbles are evacuated as well. Those are two important factors, but the latter can almost be replicated with experience. Bad..... Makes a mess.........Costly.......as vacuum are applied.....it can disturb the natural position of the fabric.
In theory all bubbles should evacuate..... but they don't. I have seen them trapped. So in my opinion that is a variable.
Run the cost of a few bags, and you will see.... Dont forget the pump, fittings,and chamber, unless you want to run the pump for several hrs.
I am not here to tell you that vacuum bagging is a bad idea. When you get into the aerospace industry or any structural member..... it is almost always needed. But they don;t have to worry about cost....have a shop...... I am an advocate of what you can do in your garage.....with average skills.....with average tools...... and stay married...... There are ways around some of the benefits of bagging. A two sided mould will mechanically hold the matrix....
I will try to sculpt a new front part of this beak, and have a look. I think I can do this without vacuum bagging, as the angles are less crazy.

[MCMXCIVRS]

I'm still interested in seeing the final product. I agree that the first method was less than attractive. I had considered fabricating a longer beak end too, but my skills with plastics and composites is virtually non-existant, so anything I cobbled up would have been even uglier than your version one.

I will add after two years running sans low fender that the extension is not really all that necessary. I haven't had much stuff get thrown up off the front wheel get higher than the headlight level and its really only in rain that I see much at all coming up off it. Sometimes small clods of mud get flung forward, but nothing of any harm in that. I expected to get more spray and such up in my face and all over the bike, but it hasn't proved to be a problem at all. So if the only thing stopping you from doing the fenderectomy is the beak extension, then don't worry about it and get that hazard off your bike. But I do want to see the extension just the same knowing how well your other projects have turned out.

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by MCMXCIVRS

I'm still interested in seeing the final product. I agree that the first method was less than attractive. I had considered fabricating a longer beak end too, but my skills with plastics and composites is virtually non-existant, so anything I cobbled up would have been even uglier than your version one.

I will add after two years running sans low fender that the extension is not really all that necessary. I haven't had much stuff get thrown up off the front wheel get higher than the headlight level and its really only in rain that I see much at all coming up off it. Sometimes small clods of mud get flung forward, but nothing of any harm in that. I expected to get more spray and such up in my face and all over the bike, but it hasn't proved to be a problem at all. So if the only thing stopping you from doing the fenderectomy is the beak extension, then don't worry about it and get that hazard off your bike. But I do want to see the extension just the same knowing how well your other projects have turned out.

Ha ha.... Yeppers.... After cutting/sanding the foam piece for an hr or two.... It was a sinking feeling to see it on the bike.... So you think that then even one inch beak extension would be an improvement.....???

[MCMXCIVRS]

Can't hurt as long as the lines look good on the bike. Even if it is only minimally more effective, just being CF it will be cool.

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by MCMXCIVRS

Can't hurt as long as the lines look good on the bike. Even if it is only minimally more effective, just being CF it will be cool.

Got ya.... out to mould then.....