KTM 950 ADV trouble

norschweger · 10-11-2012, 12:29 AM

Some weeks ago I bought a KTM 950, 06 with 40000km on it.
Looks very good and ran well. Had a flat on the rear, fixed it, some days later the chain fell off at about 100km/h! Put it on again with a new masterlink (the old one was gone) and it worked for some 1000 km. Only thing to mention is that I always felt that there was a hesitation when accelerating or decelerating...until yesterday, when it broke again! It was quite bend and this time-without chainguard-it left a lot of traces on the swingarm, rim,racket...and on the inside of the front sprocket, directly in front of a screw that does not seem to hold anything. Exactly there it was leaking. I tightened the screw a bit and it seemed to stop leaking oil.
I bend the chain again and put it on, with a masterlink I had in spare.
Next to the fact that it started and died several this morning until the battery was dead (not the first time), it run well until I stopped to fill gas (after maybe 60 miles): the engine died before I had geared down to neutral. When I tried to gear again, there was no pressure on the clutch. Next to some occasions where it slipped in first gear with a cold engine, there had not been any signs of clutch problems until then.
Looking down i could see that I was losing oil again, but could not see where.
The clutch cylinder does not seem to have any damage to it. But the level in the master cylinder is very low.
Has anyone had a similar problem or an idea what might have happened/what to do?
When I let the engine run on the centre stand without the chain on and put a gear in it sounds as if something was loose...
Thanks for any help!

petesonhisway · 10-11-2012, 02:59 AM

Maybe the chain and sprockets are worn and need to be replaced. As the chain stretches it wears out the grooves in the sprocket so eventually the links of the chain will not fit inside the teeth of the sprocket properly, the teeth of the sprocket the cut into the chain and this is often what causes a chain to break.

From what you say, it seems almost certain that your clutch slave (the cylinder mounted just in front of the front sprocket) has cracked. This is a really common problem because the slave cylinder is not strong enough. If you have a leak of mineral oil around the cylinder then that's it. It happens on every 950/990 in eventually.

There are stronger after market cylinders on the market, so you just replace the leaking cylinder with one of these and the problem is solved. If you search this forum you will find lots of info about the clutch slave.

Pete

BOB RAMSAY · 10-11-2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petesonhisway

From what you say, it seems almost certain that your clutch slave (the cylinder mounted just in front of the front sprocket) has cracked. This is a really common problem because the slave cylinder is not strong enough. If you have a leak of mineral oil around the cylinder then that's it. It happens on every 950/990 in eventually.

There are stronger after market cylinders on the market, so you just replace the leaking cylinder with one of these and the problem is solved. If you search this forum you will find lots of info about the clutch slave.

Pete

Note: this is not your drug store type 'mineral' oil. It is a mineral oil common to Mercedes-Benz', Porches and the like - buy the proper, recommended oil.

Chain and sprocket - change all as a 'set'. Don't go cheap here. KTM offers the 'kit' for about $200.US

How much did you buy this bike for?
Sounds like you may have gotten a expensive 'bargain'. . .

forrestrider · 10-11-2012, 10:29 AM

I have my bike in the shop right now for the same thing, Its was the slave cylinder, about $100.00 or so for the part.from KTMWorld i am letting them put it on for me while they re-map the bike.
Also check around your master cylinder / hand lever for the cluctch and see if it is leaking that how my problem first started oil leaking out around the rubber dirt guard, so I order a rebuild kit, it still leak's talked to some people and was told some times the Aluminum master cylinders can pit out so you have to buy a new one so I got a new one now it don.t leak.

SS in Vzla. · 10-11-2012, 10:35 AM

I'd advice you to put a new chain on with a rivet type master link. I've used the clip type master link in other bikes (with less power than the big KTM) without problems, but for some reason, the clip type master link never held on my bike, so I just riveted it and forgot about it.

Maybe your chain damaged the clutch slave when it jumped the sprocket? Maybe it damaged your side stand switch wires and that are the starting problems you are having ? It's a shot in the dark, but I'd look into those two things.

EastSideSM · 10-11-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forrestrider

I have my bike in the shop right now for the same thing, Its was the slave cylinder, about $100.00 or so for the part.from KTMWorld i am letting them put it on for me while they re-map the bike.
Also check around your master cylinder / hand lever for the cluctch and see if it is leaking that how my problem first started oil leaking out around the rubber dirt guard, so I order a rebuild kit, it still leak's talked to some people and was told some times the Aluminum master cylinders can pit out so you have to buy a new one so I got a new one now it don.t leak.

You may also want to replace the backer for the slave. I did not when I upgraded to an aftermarket unit and the old backer ended up binding and causing clutch drag (it is plastic and eventually gets deformed form all of the heat down there) that burned out my clutch pack. It is worth the few extra bucks. Kind of like how you want to replace the chain and sprockets as a set.

I ended up with an Oberon and when I upgraded the backer, theirs is metal so hopefully that will not happen ever again.

norschweger · 10-11-2012, 11:10 PM

Thank you all for the replies!
Today we tried to fix it ourselves and could make it to the next KTM-dealer (Oregon Motocycle Adventures ! ) and found out that the slave cylinder had a crack inside that was hard to see. They gave me the hole thing from their demo bike, likewise the chainguard that was gone. We put on new chain and sprockets, new oil and now I hope everything is fine. Was not cheap...
The braker, is it the thing that is above the front sprocket? I have got a metal part there and have already wondered why there is a screw missing (into zhe engine). Could it be that this remains from an original part that had been replaced?
Cheers Toby

norschweger · 10-12-2012, 09:16 PM

I meant backer , not braker. I guess it is the aluminium guard above the front sprocket?
@ Bob 9000 plus tax, has Gobis, engine guard, PIAA lights and GPS, aftermarket front springs
still too expensive after all, tires were almost ready to change, chain...he said was recently put on. When I asked, after that it had fallen off, he did not even remember which link he had used to put it on. He had put it on last year...he says...
Bike runs good, but when I speed a little more, there is this hesitation again. Both today and first time I noticed that I was climbing or descending in altitude...carburator?fuel filter?
How do you guys check the engine oil, on the center stand or sitting on it? How long do you wait after having it on idle for 1 minute? If I wait some minutes, it is very low on oil. If I check immediately, it is good and has small airbubbles on the oil stick.

Pariahtize · 10-13-2012, 09:03 PM

From a cold engine, let it warm up (under idle, not revving the eng at all) to 4 bars.Shut it off, and check the oil (dipstick).
Make sure the bike is standing centered.

I would run some Seafoam (injector/carb cleaner) thru the tank to see if it clears up any hesitation problems that are occuring.

norschweger · 10-13-2012, 10:01 PM

Thank you!
So, you do not wait to let the oil settle?
Is it normal that you can hear a bubbling from the engine, for several minutes after having shut off the engine (when it is warm)? First noticed it after the chain had smashed into the slave cylinder. Maybe it was there before but I did not pay attention to it.??

Pariahtize · 10-14-2012, 10:41 AM

I'm sure there are some bubbling noises - could be coolant, couldbe oil? It;s a sump and oil tank system, so there are return lines just as with the radiator. I don't recall hearing anything unusual(bubbling) coming from my 950A. . . .

Yes, let the bike warm up and idle, set it on level (either hold it or place it on the center stand - if on the center stand, the front wants to sit a bit higher, so I compensate by placing a small wedge under the wheel to even it out) and then shut her off. Unscrew the dipstick, wipe it off,screw it back in (all the way), and then screw it back out, noticing where the oil "marks" on the dipstick (best to be between High and Low marks).
You don't have to wait for the oil to settle down into the sump/pan - I suppose it wouldn't hurt to wait 30 seconds, but that is not what the manual states.

Seriously, use some Seafoam fuel additive for the fuel system. You can buy it at almost any auto parts store , WalMart, etc. It's about $10., and worth it! Read the ratio on the back, and don't be afraid to go a bit strong! If it hasn't been cleaned in many, many miles, you may notice a little smoke (exhaust) nowe and then as it is cleaning up carbon and fuel varnish deposits, etc. Normal.

Alleycatdad · 10-14-2012, 05:28 PM

Every time --EVERY TIME-- I've stopped, heard bubbling, thought "what's that?" it's been a failed radiator cap. Three different times that I can think of, on three different bikes. Temp guage normal on all three.

FWIW...

S

norschweger · 10-14-2012, 10:51 PM

@Pariathize
go a bit strong: do you mean that I should take more than it says on the bottle or that I should use the engine for what it is built : ) ?
Thank you for the advices, I am going to get that stuff and I will use almost all the horses I have : ).

Alleycatdad • Today 02:28 AM
Every time --EVERY TIME-- I've stopped, heard bubbling, thought "what's that?" it's been a failed radiator cap. Three different times that I can think of, on three different bikes. Temp guage normal on all three.

FWIW...

S

So, what to do with a failed cap? All good as it is? FWIW means?

Cheers Toby

Alleycatdad · 10-15-2012, 07:52 AM

Replace the cap. Coolant boils at much lower temps without the pressure a good cap provides. Makes bubbly noises. I've had it happen both with no obvious coolant loss, and with it spewing everywhere, depends on the bike.

FWIW=For What Its Worth.

S

AdvGa · 10-15-2012, 08:57 AM

[QUOTE=norschweger;19819572...
Every time --EVERY TIME-- I've stopped, heard bubbling, ...[/QUOTE]

Are you sure it is not the Fuel Bubbling in the Tanks?

10-11-2012, 10:35 AM	#5
SS in Vzla. Totally Normal? I'm not! Joined: Dec 2006 Location: Banana Republic of Black Gold Oddometer: 1,027	I'd advice you to put a new chain on with a rivet type master link. I've used the clip type master link in other bikes (with less power than the big KTM) without problems, but for some reason, the clip type master link never held on my bike, so I just riveted it and forgot about it. Maybe your chain damaged the clutch slave when it jumped the sprocket? Maybe it damaged your side stand switch wires and that are the starting problems you are having ? It's a shot in the dark, but I'd look into those two things. __________________ SS. '98 BMW F650 / '05 KTM 450EXC / '03 KTM 950 Adv Caracas, Venezuela

10-11-2012, 11:10 PM	#7
norschweger ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2012 Location: El Tunco/ El Salvador Oddometer: 146	solved! Thank you all for the replies! Today we tried to fix it ourselves and could make it to the next KTM-dealer (Oregon Motocycle Adventures ! ) and found out that the slave cylinder had a crack inside that was hard to see. They gave me the hole thing from their demo bike, likewise the chainguard that was gone. We put on new chain and sprockets, new oil and now I hope everything is fine. Was not cheap... The braker, is it the thing that is above the front sprocket? I have got a metal part there and have already wondered why there is a screw missing (into zhe engine). Could it be that this remains from an original part that had been replaced? Cheers Toby

10-13-2012, 09:03 PM	#9
Pariahtize Miscategorized Joined: Jul 2009 Location: Northern (FR), CO Oddometer: 619	From a cold engine, let it warm up (under idle, not revving the eng at all) to 4 bars.Shut it off, and check the oil (dipstick). Make sure the bike is standing centered. I would run some Seafoam (injector/carb cleaner) thru the tank to see if it clears up any hesitation problems that are occuring. __________________ "Be of good cheer. All may yet be well. There's many a fork, I think, in the road from here to destruction." E.A.

10-13-2012, 10:01 PM	#10
norschweger ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2012 Location: El Tunco/ El Salvador Oddometer: 146	bubbling Thank you! So, you do not wait to let the oil settle? Is it normal that you can hear a bubbling from the engine, for several minutes after having shut off the engine (when it is warm)? First noticed it after the chain had smashed into the slave cylinder. Maybe it was there before but I did not pay attention to it.??

10-14-2012, 10:41 AM	#11
Pariahtize Miscategorized Joined: Jul 2009 Location: Northern (FR), CO Oddometer: 619	I'm sure there are some bubbling noises - could be coolant, couldbe oil? It;s a sump and oil tank system, so there are return lines just as with the radiator. I don't recall hearing anything unusual(bubbling) coming from my 950A. . . . Yes, let the bike warm up and idle, set it on level (either hold it or place it on the center stand - if on the center stand, the front wants to sit a bit higher, so I compensate by placing a small wedge under the wheel to even it out) and then shut her off. Unscrew the dipstick, wipe it off,screw it back in (all the way), and then screw it back out, noticing where the oil "marks" on the dipstick (best to be between High and Low marks). You don't have to wait for the oil to settle down into the sump/pan - I suppose it wouldn't hurt to wait 30 seconds, but that is not what the manual states. Seriously, use some Seafoam fuel additive for the fuel system. You can buy it at almost any auto parts store , WalMart, etc. It's about $10., and worth it! Read the ratio on the back, and don't be afraid to go a bit strong! If it hasn't been cleaned in many, many miles, you may notice a little smoke (exhaust) nowe and then as it is cleaning up carbon and fuel varnish deposits, etc. Normal. __________________ "Be of good cheer. All may yet be well. There's many a fork, I think, in the road from here to destruction." E.A.

10-11-2012, 02:59 AM	#2
petesonhisway Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Mar 2004 Oddometer: 383	Maybe the chain and sprockets are worn and need to be replaced. As the chain stretches it wears out the grooves in the sprocket so eventually the links of the chain will not fit inside the teeth of the sprocket properly, the teeth of the sprocket the cut into the chain and this is often what causes a chain to break. From what you say, it seems almost certain that your clutch slave (the cylinder mounted just in front of the front sprocket) has cracked. This is a really common problem because the slave cylinder is not strong enough. If you have a leak of mineral oil around the cylinder then that's it. It happens on every 950/990 in eventually. There are stronger after market cylinders on the market, so you just replace the leaking cylinder with one of these and the problem is solved. If you search this forum you will find lots of info about the clutch slave. Pete

10-11-2012, 10:29 AM	#4
forrestrider Dont Do Stupid Shit.. Joined: Apr 2008 Location: Foley . Al Oddometer: 1,552	I have my bike in the shop right now for the same thing, Its was the slave cylinder, about $100.00 or so for the part.from KTMWorld i am letting them put it on for me while they re-map the bike. Also check around your master cylinder / hand lever for the cluctch and see if it is leaking that how my problem first started oil leaking out around the rubber dirt guard, so I order a rebuild kit, it still leak's talked to some people and was told some times the Aluminum master cylinders can pit out so you have to buy a new one so I got a new one now it don.t leak.

10-12-2012, 09:16 PM	#8
norschweger ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2012 Location: El Tunco/ El Salvador Oddometer: 146	I meant backer , not braker. I guess it is the aluminium guard above the front sprocket? @ Bob 9000 plus tax, has Gobis, engine guard, PIAA lights and GPS, aftermarket front springs still too expensive after all, tires were almost ready to change, chain...he said was recently put on. When I asked, after that it had fallen off, he did not even remember which link he had used to put it on. He had put it on last year...he says... Bike runs good, but when I speed a little more, there is this hesitation again. Both today and first time I noticed that I was climbing or descending in altitude...carburator?fuel filter? How do you guys check the engine oil, on the center stand or sitting on it? How long do you wait after having it on idle for 1 minute? If I wait some minutes, it is very low on oil. If I check immediately, it is good and has small airbubbles on the oil stick.

10-14-2012, 05:28 PM	#12
Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties! Joined: Feb 2008 Location: True Norcal, not that Bay Area/Sacto Crap... Oddometer: 1,103	Every time --EVERY TIME-- I've stopped, heard bubbling, thought "what's that?" it's been a failed radiator cap. Three different times that I can think of, on three different bikes. Temp guage normal on all three. FWIW... S __________________ When in doubt, PIN IT! It may not help, but it'll sure end the suspense... Wretched Exce$$ See ADVr's around the world-ADV spotwalla page Riding Wretched Wretched Passes Bad decisions make good stories.

10-14-2012, 10:51 PM	#13
norschweger ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2012 Location: El Tunco/ El Salvador Oddometer: 146	@Pariathize go a bit strong: do you mean that I should take more than it says on the bottle or that I should use the engine for what it is built : ) ? Thank you for the advices, I am going to get that stuff and I will use almost all the horses I have : ). Alleycatdad • Today 02:28 AM Every time --EVERY TIME-- I've stopped, heard bubbling, thought "what's that?" it's been a failed radiator cap. Three different times that I can think of, on three different bikes. Temp guage normal on all three. FWIW... S So, what to do with a failed cap? All good as it is? FWIW means? Cheers Toby

10-15-2012, 07:52 AM	#14
Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties! Joined: Feb 2008 Location: True Norcal, not that Bay Area/Sacto Crap... Oddometer: 1,103	Replace the cap. Coolant boils at much lower temps without the pressure a good cap provides. Makes bubbly noises. I've had it happen both with no obvious coolant loss, and with it spewing everywhere, depends on the bike. FWIW=For What Its Worth. S __________________ When in doubt, PIN IT! It may not help, but it'll sure end the suspense... Wretched Exce$$ See ADVr's around the world-ADV spotwalla page Riding Wretched Wretched Passes Bad decisions make good stories.

10-15-2012, 08:57 AM	#15
AdvGa Beastly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Atlanta Metro Oddometer: 1,320	[QUOTE=norschweger;19819572... Every time --EVERY TIME-- I've stopped, heard bubbling, ...[/QUOTE] Are you sure it is not the Fuel Bubbling in the Tanks?

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