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Old 10-15-2012, 03:43 PM   #13681
the_sad_punk
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Firstly thanks Rob, Resi Blue Midlife everyone for the responses.
To answer your question Rob there is about 30k kms up on her or so the odo says. Im inclined to believe it tbh.
Resi i changed that crank oil feed seal on the clutch cover with a new one in the rebuild but il check it anyway tomo.

Anyway heres the vid .
http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=MVI_4278.mp4

Did id as ye guys suggested and there seems to be decent tension on the cam chain. The balance chain seems a bit slack but i didnt think it was excessive. I had just previously tensioned it and the noise was still there afterwards.

There seemed to be a hell of a lot of lateral play on that big starter ring sprocket. I read its meant to have some play, but that much?

All the sprockets i could get at seemed ok and not loose.

There was however petrol in the oil. I checked the oil level on the dipstick before dropping it (pretty much the same level as always) but smelt it as i always do and it was evident there was petrol in it and the oil felt thin. I dont think its the problem though as the oil i dropped today has less than 20 miles on it and the previous oil was grand when i dropped that and had less than 1000kms on it.
I did lately forget to turn the tap to off for a week so that may explain it if there was a sticky float. More work and so much for my carb refurbing skills eh. Changed the needle valve seals and had everything sparkling, new filter too.

Anyway, just to to be clear, i noticed this noise at idle after a dyno run and sustained 75 to 85 mph motorway run home (about 50 miles). If you guys are happy my tensioner is ok (seems to beor am i wrong?) and if the starter ring is ok that leaves the crank/conrod??
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:23 PM   #13682
Ladder106
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And that's where I am right now also

Some of you regulars may remember a few weeks ago where I found a bit of metal lying on the bottom of the cover of the oil screen on the bottom of the engine.

Well...yesterday after another oil change I found two more pieces.

Popped them in a zip-lock bag and took them to the local father/son shop that I trust completely.

Pop said he thought it might be the inner race of the sprague clutch for the large starter ring Yes...the one that SP it taking videos of last post.

SP, my gear moved about that much also. I don't' think this is abnormal...unless others have a different idea.

Pulled the flywheel and found all the sprague clutch races (inner and outer) OK, so Pop is wrong.

The son thought is was a piece of bearing cage....damn.

So here's the plan:

Rather than pull the engine, I'm going to start by removing the left case (done) and pulling off the counterbalancer sprockets and having a look at all the bearings and cages I can see there.

Then, if I find nothing I'll pull the right case, remove and clutch etc and have a look at all those bearings.

If nothing is found with all that, then the engine comes out and cases get split until I can track down what's shedding metal bits.

I'm certain my progress will be "glacial" compared to Resi's work.

---------------------------

Given all that...question #1:

Can't fit any screwdriver I have into the plug in the front of the engine to reduce cam chain tension. Crashbar and oil cooler mount stud seems to be in the way. Is there a secret screwdriver to use? I can barely see the tensioner and it looks like some kind of strange phillips head...or does a flat head work?

I'll post photos as soon as I can find my camera (another unrelated problem)

Thanks
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:12 PM   #13683
robmoto
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Ray I use a flat blade screwdriver its a Stanley electricians one with red plastic handle and red plastic on the shaft you know the one that comes in a black box with other screwdrivers , you will have to have it on steeper angle than you think when using it to get it into the slot, when wound back I use electrical tape wrapped arround the screwdriver and frame to stop it from unwinding.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:26 PM   #13684
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Colum everything looks ok , lateral movement in the sprockrt on mine is about 3mm but the bearing sounds noisy this maybe from the fuel in the oil can you get some mineral 10w 50 and shove that in it and see if any better.
Its a low milage bike should not be the big end me thinks
Behind the starter clutch there should be a thrust washer even though there is room for 3.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:58 AM   #13685
the_sad_punk
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Ok will hunt down some dino 10/50 and see what shes like. Bte Rob, there way more than 3mm play on my sprocket, more like 5 or 6mm. Wonder was that thrust washer left out?
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:41 AM   #13686
robmoto
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Colum If you got a flywheel puller I would have a look anyway, does the clutch starter gear have much movement if you try to wobble it, ie , push one side while pulling the other, the bearing to me sounded like it was kinda dry maybe your oil was thinner than you thought with fuel adjust ballancer chain again and new oil and give it a start and see what happens.
I have been fitting up a 150mm long filter to the yellow bike and a very small battery from anti gravity batteries lithium job to compinsate for the longer filter , and a mid to top end range cam should be here this week, I picked up the new rocker arms today.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:06 AM   #13687
the_sad_punk
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Rob, no flywheel puller but i will order one from Hessler. The large starter sprocket doesnt have any play like you describe but there is about 5 or 6mm play in and out. You can see it on my vid. I had another look at that oil and it was very thin indeed.
Do i need to flush the engine with something before refilling with oil? Either way there will be several changes of oil to get it out
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:09 AM   #13688
Simosez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmoto View Post
I have been fitting up a 150mm long filter to the yellow bike and a very small battery from anti gravity batteries lithium job to compinsate for the longer filter , and a mid to top end range cam should be here this week, I picked up the new rocker arms today.
you going hunting 690's Rob?
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:45 AM   #13689
robmoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_sad_punk View Post
Rob, no flywheel puller but i will order one from Hessler. The large starter sprocket doesnt have any play like you describe but there is about 5 or 6mm play in and out. You can see it on my vid. I had another look at that oil and it was very thin indeed.
Do i need to flush the engine with something before refilling with oil? Either way there will be several changes of oil to get it out
Colum the engine is allready flushedjust leave the dip stick out to get rid of any fumes left in there, 750 ebay has pullers for sale sorry I don,t what page it was about 65 bucks or 30 squid if your lucky the seller may have been Engand.
Put a new filter in it and check the rubber type O ring behind it too.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:50 AM   #13690
robmoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simosez View Post
you going hunting 690's Rob?
You can overtake them Simon easy after 10 minutes of riding they get white fingers from the vibrations and carn,t work the front brake .
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:32 AM   #13691
bluesman
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I disagree. If this is the case - 690 you tried was really set up to run ultra lean.

690 vibrates MUCH less than DR Big. And - it is way faster bike. I rode alongside with 690 in difficult conditions not once, I saw it crash (and get minimal damage despite big crash) and it is really good machine. Which can't be said about 640 that vibrates worse than Harley.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:32 AM   #13692
Ladder106
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When using the flywheel puller a bit of caution is required.

The first time I did this I completely removed the large bolt in the left crank that holds the flywheel on.

I then screwed on the puller and began to tighten the bolt on the end. I've used pullers enough to have learned that after you apply a bit of torque, you rap the end sharply with a hammer.........After about 3 turns of tighten....tap...tighten...tap.......Bang!

The flywheel released all at once and (luckily) landed in my lap.

So.....when using the puller, leave the large crank bolt in place. Loosen it 10 or 15 mm (it's long), THEN use the puller.

Not only is it better for the crank to have the puller shaft pushing against the bolt rather than the bare crankshaft but leaving the bolt in place will limit the distance the flywheel can travel when it comes away.....this can happen very suddenly.

To prevent the flywheel from turning I cut the threaded portion off of a 12 mm bolt and inserted into one of the two holes on the circumference of the flywheel....then used a nylon strap run around the flywheel and attach to the front crashbar.

Also...if you plan to loosen the balancer chain sprockets, this is the time. Use the strap flywheel holder to hold everything while loosening the balancer shaft bolts. If you remove the flywheel, tensioner and balancer shaft chain, you'll have to resort to the "special tool" to hold the balancer shaft sprockets.....or put everything back together again back to step #1 (yeah, I learned this the hard way also)
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:17 AM   #13693
Ladder106
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So with the flywheel off........

I noticed the large "uncommon" nut holding the balancer chain sprocket onto the crankshaft.

I'm certain there is a "special tool" required for this nut. Does anyone have any ideas or knowledge of what can be used in place of the Suzuki tool?

If I have to split the cases, this thing will have to come off.

#15 in the drawing

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Old 10-16-2012, 09:38 AM   #13694
Resi
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Gidday.

I got a piece 10mm stainless steel lasercut in the shape of the nut and built a Resi-special-tool :)
If interested, I can support some pieces for a low price...

Cheers,
Lars
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:33 PM   #13695
shanekfalcon
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Hi everyone,

Just thought I let you all know where I am at with my 800. After spending hours with carbie cleaner and rebuild kits, put it ack together and won't fire. It did fire once and when I stopped it, would not restart. I am very confident that I have done something wrong. Rob has graciously agreed to help me out as although I have learnt heaps, I am still out of my depth at this stage. So I'll take it down to Rob and take the chance to have it really set up properly and hopefully learn a bit more as well. It will get there, eventually, I am sure.

Regards,

Shane
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