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Old 10-16-2012, 07:20 AM   #16
PETDOC
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[QUOTE=MizzouRider;19828563
So, now I have one.. Hope they are working well. I did get the 21 or 23 amp one.. Sorry, Sr moment.. So I'm hoping it's got enough power.. Did anyone buy the special charger/tender for it? Not sure how much that will be, but I want to get a long life out of a $200 battery. [/QUOTE]

The initial Shorai recommended for the 1150 GS was the 18 Ah, which I purchased. It was inadequate in temps below 35 degrees F. Shorai has since changed their recommendation for the 1150 to the 21 Ah battery. They replaced my original Shorai with a 21 Ah battery, but I've had a couple of bad breaks since installing it (ankle then 4 months later clavicle+5 ribs) and can't yet comment on cold weather starting.
I did purchase and do use the Shorai charger. Initially I would monitor my voltmeter and add the charger as the voltage approached 13, which would take about 4 weeks if the bike was not ridden. Because of my injuries and not riding for nearly a year I decided to leave the charger attached. I've found if the electrical power goes out once it is back on you have to hit the storage button on the charger, otherwise it sits with both the charge and storage lights illuminated.
Based on my experiences with the 18 Ah Shorai if I had it to do again I wouldn't purchase a lithium battery. If I either lived where the temps never got into the 30's or I never rode when the temps were below 40 degrees then lithium is definitely the way to go.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:09 AM   #17
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I started with a 14aHr and was upgraded to an 18aHr on my Tiger. Sold the Tiger but kept the Shorai. Shorai send me a new 21aHr free complete with shipping both ways. Just ran the GS through three cold WV mornings. It doesn't like the cold. It will crank but you better not have any other issues going on. Some folks said it made their bike start stronger than the original AGM. Not mine. I think the original spins the bike up quicker hot or cold. Considering all the tools and crap I carry on the GS, the weight savings is not a valid advantage for the Shorai. Only positive thing I have to say is having two batteries isn't a bad idea when you keep one on trickle in a warm place all the time.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:53 PM   #18
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as i've said before, i do think that their recommendation to "warm" the battery helps, but i'm just not sure i'd want to deal with the time that it takes to do so if i lived in a cold climate. i will say that the battery does act as it should if you go thru the proper steps on those colder winter mornings (haven't had any experience below 40 degrees).

as for the cca, the 21a worked best in my GS but you do give up some of the weight savings in exchange.

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Old 10-16-2012, 12:59 PM   #19
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I'm in Missouri, so I'll get a lot of opportunities to cold start it..
I ride as much as I can in the winter months. If it's a decent day, I'll take it out. (I'm not hard core though. If there is ice out there, I'm in the jeep.)
I guess we'll get to see how it does in a colder climate.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:13 PM   #20
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Shorai now recommend a 21A for the 1200 GS Adventure. I tried the 14A middle of last year and it was definitely hopeless for the big bikes. I've just installed a 21A to test for the local dealer and it's a huge improvement over the 14A.

Shorai do state they don't like starting in the cold and suggest you turn the ignition on for a few minutes to start drawing on the battery. Problem on BMWs is that the lights don't come until the bike starts, so the draw is that much less if you just turn the ignition on.

Otherwise, my OEM battery was about 2.5 years old and would sometimes be quite sluggish in turning the bike over. I read plenty about the batteries suddenly failing to start the bike without warning and didn't really want to find that out the hard way
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:47 PM   #21
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Hmmmmm....

I've been following the various LiIon battery threads with mild interest. I don't think the technology is ready for prime-time here in the Northeastern winter, where the temperatures don't often reach freezing and can sometimes dip below zero at night. I ride year-round (unless the roads are icy), so cold starting is a concern.

That said, my background in building LiIon batteries for spacecraft might be useful to those folks who want to use these batteries.
Space is a very unforgiving environment with some pretty extreme low temperatures (very dependent on the particular orbit). A battery failure will render your million-dollar spacecraft a million-dollar bit of space debris. Batteries are taken quite seriously and lots of work goes into making sure they work when they need to.

Every battery that left my shop had a common design feature: A heating element connected to directly to the battery through a thermostat. The heater was a simple resistive-film type unit, stuck to the Aluminum case with an appropriate adhesive. When the thermostat closed, the heater warmed up and kept the battery within its operating range - simple and reliable.
Why not do something similar with these batteries? We have pretty easy access to resistive heating elements - adhesive grip heaters aren't very different than the heaters I used to install. Depending on the surface of the battery case, you can probably stick the heaters directly to the battery. If you've got surface features like ribs or ridges, a thin Aluminum plate could be glued to the surface with a thermally conductive epoxy and the heaters stuck to that. Wire the heaters to the battery through a toggle switch. When you've got to warm the battery, simply flip the switch for a minute or two and then start the bike.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:52 PM   #22
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I got the 18ah for my 1150. It sat on the shelf for 6 months and then I was going on a 10 day trip and since the original (yes, 7 years) BMW (Exide) battery was getting a bit tired, I swapped it out for the Shorai. Big mistake! Every time the temp dropped below about 50F overnight the bike was very hard to start. I did the lights on thing to warm the battery but it was hit and miss and it caused me stress every morning. After the first start, no problems for the rest of the day.

The slow cranking and low voltage is very hard on the starter and the servo brakes. The Shorai would drop immediately to around 9.5v on attempted start and spring right back to 13v when the starter was released. The 18ah Shorai has a much higher CCA rating than the BMW or Odyssey batteries; I have to say that the CCA ratings are crap. CCA is supposed to be at 0F and I can't see a LiPO cranking anything at that temp. In Canada, we plug our cars in at night (in the winter) and battery blankets are readily available but I don't really want one on my motorcycle!

I ordered a new Odyssey and it has been flawless. I did call Shorai (great customer service) and they sent me a 21ah replacement but now that the cold weather is here, I'm not putting it in the bike. Maybe I'll try it next summer.

There is a great thread in Parallel Universe on LiPO's http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770364
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Error View Post
Hmmmmm....

I've been following the various LiIon battery threads with mild interest. I don't think the technology is ready for prime-time here in the Northeastern winter, where the temperatures don't often reach freezing and can sometimes dip below zero at night. I ride year-round (unless the roads are icy), so cold starting is a concern.

That said, my background in building LiIon batteries for spacecraft might be useful to those folks who want to use these batteries.
Space is a very unforgiving environment with some pretty extreme low temperatures (very dependent on the particular orbit). A battery failure will render your million-dollar spacecraft a million-dollar bit of space debris. Batteries are taken quite seriously and lots of work goes into making sure they work when they need to.

Every battery that left my shop had a common design feature: A heating element connected to directly to the battery through a thermostat. The heater was a simple resistive-film type unit, stuck to the Aluminum case with an appropriate adhesive. When the thermostat closed, the heater warmed up and kept the battery within its operating range - simple and reliable.
Why not do something similar with these batteries? We have pretty easy access to resistive heating elements - adhesive grip heaters aren't very different than the heaters I used to install. Depending on the surface of the battery case, you can probably stick the heaters directly to the battery. If you've got surface features like ribs or ridges, a thin Aluminum plate could be glued to the surface with a thermally conductive epoxy and the heaters stuck to that. Wire the heaters to the battery through a toggle switch. When you've got to warm the battery, simply flip the switch for a minute or two and then start the bike.
Okay, this is good until you forget to turn the heaters off and cook your battery.

So we modify the circuit a bit: a SPST latching relay is our friend here. For those who don't know the difference between a relay and a latching relay, a regular relay flips to its "normal" position when the coil current is removed. A latching relay stays in position until another signal is sent to the coil (internally reversing polarity) to flip the contacts to the other position. Any momentary pushbutton or toggle switch will actuate the latching relay to the closed position, sending current to the heaters. A 12v source present *after* the bike is running is needed to disengage the heaters. On my 1150, I'd use the blue testlead coming off the alternator - that only shows 12v when the alternator is spinning.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #24
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A123 batteries just filed for bankruptcy.....
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:04 PM   #25
Twilight Error
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
A123 batteries just filed for bankruptcy.....
I read that. Was a time when A123 was courting the company I worked for, they wanted a space division in a very bad way. Many of us received calls from headhunters for an "opportunity" in Az...
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Error View Post
Hmmmmm....

I've been following the various LiIon battery threads with mild interest. I don't think the technology is ready for prime-time here in the Northeastern winter, where the temperatures don't often reach freezing and can sometimes dip below zero at night. I ride year-round (unless the roads are icy), so cold starting is a concern.

That said, my background in building LiIon batteries for spacecraft might be useful to those folks who want to use these batteries.
Space is a very unforgiving environment with some pretty extreme low temperatures (very dependent on the particular orbit). A battery failure will render your million-dollar spacecraft a million-dollar bit of space debris. Batteries are taken quite seriously and lots of work goes into making sure they work when they need to.

Every battery that left my shop had a common design feature: A heating element connected to directly to the battery through a thermostat. The heater was a simple resistive-film type unit, stuck to the Aluminum case with an appropriate adhesive. When the thermostat closed, the heater warmed up and kept the battery within its operating range - simple and reliable.
Why not do something similar with these batteries? We have pretty easy access to resistive heating elements - adhesive grip heaters aren't very different than the heaters I used to install. Depending on the surface of the battery case, you can probably stick the heaters directly to the battery. If you've got surface features like ribs or ridges, a thin Aluminum plate could be glued to the surface with a thermally conductive epoxy and the heaters stuck to that. Wire the heaters to the battery through a toggle switch. When you've got to warm the battery, simply flip the switch for a minute or two and then start the bike.
Are LiFePo batteries being used on diesel trucks in sub freezing climates? Until I can spin my CAT diesel engine in my motorhome with a Li battery in 20F. temps, I'll remain a lead battery (AGM) proponent.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:18 PM   #27
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A123 batteries just filed for bankruptcy.....
Were they not the supplier of batteries for the Volt?
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:57 PM   #28
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Were they not the supplier of batteries for the Volt?
They are not. They are the the supplier for Fisker.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:32 AM   #29
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Are LiFePo batteries being used on diesel trucks in sub freezing climates? Until I can spin my CAT diesel engine in my motorhome with a Li battery in 20F. temps, I'll remain a lead battery (AGM) proponent.
Dunno. I can't see any advantage to using one in that application - the size and weight of a battery is more-or-less irrelevant in a motorhome or 18 wheel truck.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:44 AM   #30
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Dunno. I can't see any advantage to using one in that application - the size and weight of a battery is more-or-less irrelevant in a motorhome or 18 wheel truck.
It's almost the same circumstances with a 1200 GS Adventure.. LOL!
I didn't get it to save weight. It was the only available option at the rally I was at. I'm hoping for decent results. Heading for Alaska in June.
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