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Old 05-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #46
disston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patanga View Post
The system was originally described to me as a magneto ignition (a referral, not the manufacturer) but after seeing it in the flesh and some discussion it is a CDI system.
That's the problem I had in the begining, several days ago. It does not look to me to be a magneto. It also does not look like two separate systems. If the permanent magnet alternator or the CDI ignition fails the bike will come to a halt. One system. Two parts working together but not two systems.

I can see a use for this. If it fit my needs I'd check out the price and availability. My current ride does not need this so I'll go back to the sidelines.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:33 PM   #47
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That said

That said, should the battery fail, the ignition system will function by simply disconnecting a designated relay wire. I have since learned that these systems have been fitted to a number of very modified adventure tourers and BM desert racers over here with great results and no complaints.

patanga screwed with this post 05-17-2012 at 02:39 AM
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:41 PM   #48
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Supply

Sadly Beemerboff local Oz suppliers don't usually move the volume to make sufficient profit to compete. Add to that the 10% that imports avoid and the picture becomes more clear. The guys at Munich's are great and very helpful. More the pity. There are a few kitchen qualified ebayers popping up over here but best avoid them as we all know how that story ends; Here today, gone tomorrow. Stick with the reputable physical shop front suppliers, here or O/S and stay safe.

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Old 05-17-2012, 04:07 AM   #49
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Patanga, no argument there - when Munich's prices were 50% more than Motobins I was happy to support them, but you have to draw a line somewhere, and their current pricing is beyond that line.

Exactly what is a magneto is open to discussion, but some of the
" flywheel magnetos " on small bore dirt bikes were CDI too, and none the worse for that.

The system should work OK on desert racers even though it was designed for precisely the use you put it to on earlier bikes, most advance curves are all in by 3500 revs max and if you are running below that you aint racing.

And although the manufacturers site is silent on the point and Rooney doesn't have a site, if he can get them to supply a a twin plug curve he can get one for racers too, if anyone thinks they need it.
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Old 05-18-2012, 02:21 AM   #50
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Munich's

Yeah, know what you mean, I was the same. It's just as likely a case of decreasing turnover forcing up prices to meet overheads etc. Great bunch though. Such is life. You're right regards Paul being 'the man' on these powerdynamo units. He's built up quite a few racers and many others using the same system. Sure knows his stuff. Cheers
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:08 PM   #51
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interesting

Thanks Patanga , provocative post eh?
My R75/5 was fitted with a Boyer B about 35 yrs ago and the improvement in starting and low down torque was impressive so i have no need to upgrade .
Just one question please , you say other options somehow affect the kickstarter . Comment ?
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:48 PM   #52
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Some newer bikes have a fancy starter relay and circuitry which incorporates a capacitor and diode and feeds the black box a steady 12v+ while the starter is cranking, but only for 2/3 seconds.

The idea is to isolate the electronics from the voltage drop when the starter is operated.

The ones fitted by BMW to the F650s were just as likely to isolate the box from all power, as either Ewan or Charlie found out half way through the Dakar. And DAHIFWK!!!

Some folks reckon a similar system is incorporated into some of the fancy aftermarket ignitions, and the 3 seconds isn't enough to get the kick away.

If you are kick starting you wont be using the starter relay anyway and the battery volts are not going to change much , so I am not certain if it would actually be a problem if you were changing to kick only.
It might need a bit of knowledge of the revised systems circuitry, and the skill to rework it slightly or add a separate, switchable kick start circuit, to get constant power to the ignition system.

There may also be circuitry incorporated in the black box to simply switch the system off after a few seconds if the engine doesnt start, but in my experience with the BMW box there is still time to get a good kick away.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:33 AM   #53
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Kick starters

I couldn't say about the post having been "provocative", but it has been interesting at times;). Welcome BTW. Re your kick starter question; Ditto to Beemerboff's (sorry got the spelling wrong earlier) comments on the later electronic ignition models. I also understand that the R100GS models (possibly others as well) used different ignition modules for bikes fitted with the optional kick starter.

I can't speak for the early electronic Boyer B systems, but one current model supplier (motobins) specifically lists that the Microtech system is not to be used on bikes with kick starters. Another supplier of the same system made no such mention, so who knows. As the bike in this conversion isn't mine, I wasn't prepared to take that chance. That said, any motor can suffer kick back from mistiming issues. There could of course also be an element of over caution to some of the warnings???. There was also a consideration with the age of the bike falling into the 1974ish era when airheads were said to have had very fragile kick start mechanisms. The final clincher for me though was a first hand referral from an airhead guru I know who has successfully fitted powerdynamo's to numerous airheads, incl /5 models. As the owner was also keen to do something about the bike's aging charging system, there were cost considerations. In short the powerdynamo offered the best value for this /5's application. Horses for courses. Hope that answers your question. Cheers:)

patanga screwed with this post 05-19-2012 at 11:46 PM
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:59 AM   #54
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4 pages and not a single pic of this thing? This will not do.

Here's one of Rooney's:

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Old 05-19-2012, 08:05 AM   #55
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Airhead Wrangler, which system is that?
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craydds View Post
Airhead Wrangler, which system is that?
Powerdynamo. Look back over the last few pages for details.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:24 AM   #57
patanga OP
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Actual photo from conversion /5

Thanks AW..... Forgive me for not posting any images. I had read a forum bulletin recently and understood that advrider was no longer accepting photo's. Obviously I read wrong. The first image is a little out of focus but in it you can just see that the cam shaft nose is pretty badly banged up from the advance weights unit after years of hard work and abuse.



The second image is of the powerdynamo as fitted to the /5



Cheers

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Old 10-21-2012, 03:14 AM   #58
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Bumping a good thread.
Yes, I am still considering this 'giant leap backwards' for my G/S.

Since the last post, Jason has ridden and used (and broken) one of these Systems. What did you think Jason?
Was there any sort of post mortem on the black box failure?

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Old 10-21-2012, 07:01 AM   #59
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Inconclusive evidence as to whether it was a random electronics failure, or failed due to maybe having its brain scrambled by inadvertantly removing a spark plug wire while running.

I want to kind of say the system was pretty robust either way. It lasted at least 300k's past when I did the damage to the wire. Tough to say, eh?

I love being able to run without a battery, though, especially in race circumstances.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:42 AM   #60
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'76 R75/7 ignition timing

[QUOTE=patanga;18645020]Hi folks. A friend recently came to me with running problems on his 75/5 and after discussing and researching the options we elected to go with the Powerdynamo magneto ignition & charging system. Besides the age and reliability concerns of running 40 year old electrics, the other problem with the old system was that the cam shaft nose was badly worn from the advance unit having been over tightened over the years. That mean't stripping down much of the motor & removing the gearbox to replace the cam shaft. The owner was keen to avoid that hassle when the rest of engine mechanics on the bike seemed to be O.K. A fair call I thought.

The owner was however enthusiastic about upgrading the electrics with something that would be compatible with the old /5 systems and not create potential issues with reported risk of damage to the kick start mechanism, as has been suggested with most other electronic ignition units into the early BM points triggered ignition systems. Enter the Powerdynamo system. To say that we were quietly expecting some improvement was an understatement. Neither of us was quite prepared for how good it was going to be.

I can only say that the Powerdynamo system is awesome and it has transformed the /5's performance. If you are going to have one of these fitted to your /5 and want to put the rectifier/regulator in the place where the diode board was then the wiring loom in the kit will need to be shortened and modified slightly to suit. In the interests of maintaining a more original appearance I was keen to keep the rectifier/ regulator out of sight and so I checked with the manufacturer to make sure they supported this placement. (the instructions read that they do, but I wanted to make sure for warranty purposes). With the blessings from Powerdynamo I proceeded with the upgrade. The longer loom is an allowance for those wishing to place the unit further back in the frame. The other concern I had with a placement of the rectifier closer to the coil was the potential for electrical interference. As this bike is still a daily 'short hop' commuter I was happy to keep it as original as possible and that meant keeping the rectifyer out of sight. If the bike was being used for competition, or long haul touring I may have opted to put the rectifier/ regulator on the frame and in the air flow to help it dissipate heat. Your call.

Please note that the Powerdynamo system is NOT compatible with electronic tacho's. (Pity because I'd like to be able to offer this unit to owners of later models as well). While the ignition and charging system will still work fine if you fit this unit to later models the electronic tacho will not function. Cable tacho /6 models and earlier are fine.

Regards degree of fitment difficulty, this conversion is reasonably straight forward for those who know their stuff and a couple of special tools are required. For instance once you fit the magneto rotor you will need a dedicated puller (available ex Powerdynamo) to remove it again as the standard BM rotor puller bolt no longer does the task. I'd suggest therefore that if you are not 100% confident that the system be fitted by a qualified repairer. An awesome performance outcome for and old /5 soldier.



...very interesting read. I thought I had hit a wall until this thread found me...I have a '76 R 75/7 and having ignition timing issues at the moment. I was contemplating installing the Dyna 3 electronic ignition system (still uses the centrifugal advance unit). I believe that there is an issue with the CAU itself, as the timing is too far advanced and there is no further room to adjust/ retard the ignition. Facing the choice of purchasing a new CAU ( about $250 ), hoping this is the fix, and purchasing the Dyna 3 ( about $200).
your modification seems tempting. How has the performance been since the install?

Anyone elses comments and ideas are greatly appreciated as well.

Cheers

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