Buying a wrecked F650GS or F800GS

[diegoteck]

I'm thinking about buying a crashed bike, salvage title as a project, since I'm planning a trip from UT to Lima I don't need a showroom bike.
I think I could get them for a decent price, but for what I see they don't really go for cheap on insurance auctions, plus fees and transportation the cost could be really close to the price of any used bike.
I did this years ago with cars, bought them crashed, rebuild and sell them for a small profit, I like the idea of trying with bikes and with the upcoming trip it won't hurt to save a couple bucks.
Any advice, anybody did it out there. Opinions, ideas, anything could help.

[Ceri JC]

I bought mine back accident damaged from my insurer, when I heard they were going to sell it for (IIRC) £2300. It cost me about £2K to have it repaired to make it mechanically 100% (I told them not to worry about aesthetics), in an official BMW dealership. If I had done it myself, I could have done it for about £200 less. £700-900 less if I had been patient and bought the requisite parts from breakers yards, ebay, etc. I've ridden mine back to back with uncrashed bikes several times, there's no difference I can detect.

Depends massively on the nature of the damage sustained in the crash, mind...

[GH41]

The reason an insurance company totals a bike is.... It would cost more to repair than replace it! I don't know about UT but here in SC nothing is selling for anywhere near replacement cost in this economy. I would not buy a salvaged bike. GH

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by GH41

The reason an insurance company totals a bike is.... It would cost more to repair than replace it! I would not buy a salvaged bike.

??

That just shows that you have absolutely no idea about the topic. The theoretical repair cost is completely useless as an indicator if you are going to be riding the bike and are not concerned with small cosmetic defects like the OP is.

Do you realize that if I "bump" into you and make a tiny dent somewhere in your frame that's around $4k-5k worth of damage right there even though it won't have any impact on structural strength whatsoever? Or that a scratched up stock muffler and header mean $2500 worth of damage, even though you can find new take-offs for cheap?


To the OP,

Totally depends on the damage and price you get it for. I've rebuilt two K72 F650GS and after selling the first own the second one for free. Both ended up looking better and performing better than when they were new, as I used several upgraded parts.

The frames are very strong especially in the headstock area so even if the forks are bent that might not mean anything either. If it was a frontal impact I would have it checked on an Computrack machine, they will have the factory specs to know if it's within tolerance. One of my accident damaged frames measured closer to tolerance than a new one did....

Here is a before and after for one of my bikes:

[diegoteck]

"Totally depends on the damage and price you get it for. I've rebuilt two K72 F650GS and after selling the first own the second one for free. ."


This is very encouraging, can you give me an idea on how much less than regular price you sold the bike because it had a rebuild/salvage title.
Since I'm an insurance agent I know how the adjusters estimate the repair cost on a damaged vehicle and you quotations are all right, I can't even bealive how many times we ( Insurance ) total a vehicle you can repair for a small fraction of the estimate.
I've done it with a 2001 jeep cherokee, 2002 Toyota MR2, Nissan 350z, 2003 VW Jetta TDI, 2006 Volvo S60, 2008 Grand Caravan. Every time I hay a great car for a fraction of the price but never tried with a bike.
I'll try to get a bike at the next insurance auction, we'll see.
I appreciate your feedback.

[LukasM]

We don't have salvage titles in Austria, so it was clean. Since I supplied a protocol from Computrack for the frame and all the damaged parts were replaced with better than new (eg F800GS plastics that make the bike look 10x better), I got a price that was right between the regular value of a F650GS and an F800GS. Fair to me and the buyer, since he saved quite a bit over buying an F650GS and equipping it similarly.

[diegoteck]

That sounds fair, Here in the US some people may get very sensitive about rebuild/salvage titles, for me is hard to understand, I'm originally form Argentina, there you fix everything when here you just trow it away and get something new.
With over 6 years of experience in the Insurance industry I can confidently say that "branding" titles is a great system for insurance companies to avoid paying for a vehicle twice and has little to do with consumer safety.

[diegoteck]

Originally Posted by GH41

The reason an insurance company totals a bike is.... It would cost more to repair than replace it! I don't know about UT but here in SC nothing is selling for anywhere near replacement cost in this economy. I would not buy a salvaged bike. GH

I think it comes down to personal opinion, I'm willing to try if I could save about 2k, if it is less than that is probably not worth it to me. I'm honestly really curious about finding out how much can i save on my next bike. Thank you for your input

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by diegoteck

That sounds fair, Here in the US some people may get very sensitive about rebuild/salvage titles, for me is hard to understand, I'm originally form Argentina, there you fix everything when here you just trow it away and get something new.
With over 6 years of experience in the Insurance industry I can confidently say that "branding" titles is a great system for insurance companies to avoid paying for a vehicle twice and has little to do with consumer safety.

Then make sure that you document everything well so the buyer knows that you are not some shade tree mechanic who cobbled it together to make a quick buck. Lots of pics, receipt for parts that were changed, a frame/fork/triple inspection protocol (this is what most people will be concerned about with a crashed bike), etc will go a long way.

[GH41]

Can you insure a bike with a salvage title? GH

[diegoteck]

Originally Posted by GH41

Can you insure a bike with a salvage title? GH

short answer: YES

long answer: to insure the bike or any vehicle the agent / insurance company needs the VIN #, with that information they have all they need to find out the vehicle's history, but there is no a single company that will do it.
The insurance agent is required to inspect every vehicle with colision and comprehensive coverage, I personally take 2 pictures to cover my butt in case the vehicle had existing damage and the client plans to claim the damage under the new policy. Then when the company calls me to make sure I inspected the vehicle I can confidently say "yes I did. Do you want some pictures?"
As an insurance agent if I know there is a rebuild/salvage title I should insure the vehicle with liability only, but again I only need the VIN#, if the client doesn't tell me, I don't have any way to know and I'm not paying for a carfax report out of my pocket for every single vehicle.

Ok, now your bike is insured, you have an accident or it gets stolen, then and only after the fact some, not all companies will pull the accident history for the vehicle. But it is already too late, you have been paying premium for collision and comprehensive ( or "full cover" I hate this two words), the company needs to pay, remember they had all the information they needed but decided to save $10 on a carfax.
How much are they going to pay?
Every company is different, if they don't find out about the salvage title, you get full replacement value. If they know about the salvage, they will determine the price for a non salvage bike and then apply a deduction. Insurance is intended to get you back yo the very same situation you were before the accident, from my experience I have no a single client that was burned after a claim with a salvage vehicle.
If you are worried about the company calling you a liar because you didn't tell them about the salvage title, in first place they probably didn't even ask, but I had clients that didn't know their vehicle was in an accident before and never heard about salvage/rebuild title in their life.
There you go!!

[GH41]

So.. if not ask don't tell and hope it isn't discovered if loss or physical damage takes place? I you make a claim and collect a settlement and it is later discovered the bike has a salvage title can you be accused of committing fraud?? GH

[diegoteck]

Originally Posted by GH41

So.. if not ask don't tell and hope it isn't discovered if loss or physical damage takes place? I you make a claim and collect a settlement and it is later discovered the bike has a salvage title can you be accused of committing fraud?? GH

You are not committing any crime if the company doesn't ask. There is nothing wrong if they discover it is a salvage title on the claim process, they take a depreciation and you get what you paid for. If you bought a bike for 7k when it was 10k with a clean title and the company tells you the replacement cost is 10k but we are going to take a 30% depreciation due to the loss history, you will be ok, at the end you are not trying to make money, you just need to get what you paid for it.
I had clients that just after a total loss claim realized their car was a salvage and now understand why it was "such a good deal" when they bought it, I explain the process if they are not familiar with it and i also tell then not to get unreal expectations about the settlement. If you paid less, you get less, but there is no way you are walking out empty handed.

[diegoteck]

Today I tried to buy a 2009 F650gs with 7k miles at an insurance auction, it had a salvage title and some cosmetic damage, from the pictures I could'n find any fairing broken, there were some scratches on the engine crash bars, but it was a running machine.
It sold at $5,500, with fees and shipping it could easily be $6,500.
I'm a little dissapointed, it is actually about 2k less than a clean title, but for some reason I was hoping a lower ticket price.
Since I have my heart on a f800gs I will be looking for the next auction.

[CheckerdD]

Maybe you could find one with a little bit of water damage in New Jersey and Long Island, NY. Dave