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Old 11-06-2012, 03:52 PM   #16
LowPSI
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Here is the what the Bernie Book says about passing:

Passing
"Be courteous and allow faster rider to pass you on the loop, particularly on narrow trails. Slow and wave them around or pull over to make the pass easier.

Expect other riders to extend the same courtesy. But first, let them know you're there. Often just approaching fast and revving the engine will deliver the message. Or call out. "passing on the left" let's them know what's happening. It also eliminates the possibility of them swerving into your line because they didn't know you were there.

Sometimes you have to startle a rider who's not responding. Yell at him. If all else fails, push by. A passing rider has the right of way."

This has little to do with the way club trials are run today. Please read my previous post for some perspective.

In the past time WAS a big factor in National and World events. That is why this is in the Bernie Book.
Copyright 1983

I had a teammate lose a Pro Class National on time. He won on observation and lost by being 2 minutes late.

Today club events have short loops and only 10 sections or less and there is plenty of time.

Unless you are riding in the Scott Trial, SSDT or one of Europe's LDT Classic multi day events time won't be a factor.


Some of you guys are taking this wrong and turning this into a "road rage" confrontation.

LowPSI screwed with this post 11-06-2012 at 04:27 PM
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:26 PM   #17
LowPSI
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Originally Posted by motojunky View Post
I gather you've been at this a while. Do you prefer "then" or "now?"
Good question. Both eras have things I like. But I wonder if today's rider knows what he is missing. There is lots of Old School stuff that we just don't do any more and I think some of the fun has been lost.

NOW: I like the bikes. They are amazing. Tires today are sooo good its ridiculous. Someday if you get a chance ride and old twinshock bike with original suspension and tires in a slippery creek be and you'll know what I mean. Brakes, suspension, motors, clutches are all so good now. The light weight is another cool thing. Back then the bikes were 200+ lbs. The new techniques are cool too, I like the splatters and big stuff. Some of the set up moves are cool too. I wish I could do it all.

THEN: I miss the flow of the sections and the loops. I miss the long loops. I love riding a great piece of trail. That's why I love the UTE CUP. .... Going 100 ft to the next section just doesn't do it for me. I know not all clubs have ideal terrain. I miss the variety of sections. Good section design is an art form, like a great road race track. Ravines, hill climbs, off cambers, mud all of it. I like sections that are designed to be fun and not just to get points. Today there is too much hop in a box then a rock. I feel like that is why people drop out. They get bored with the same 'ol thing.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:48 PM   #18
lineaway
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Originally Posted by neilking View Post
Most trials I've ridden, time has not been an issue. However, there have been some that it was a major issue.
Glad you chimed in. The craziest trials I ever rode was a Texas state series. They were so anal on the rules that with a larger turnout than expected and a blown time table an insane trials developed. The Texas series organizers are rule zealots that would not bend. The trialsmasters from a local club knew the time limit they set was impossible.
So the trialsmasters allowed more than one rider in a section at a time to get most riders finished within the time limit. So you let a scorer know you are entering a section and hope they could watch for a correct score. You guys are worried about passsing on the trail, I passed two riders in a section multiple times during this event! Pure craZINES, but everyone was in the same boat. I cannot remember anyone really complaining too much. Most riders had traveled a long distance to compete and nobody wanted to DNF on time!
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:18 PM   #19
lineaway
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For those that don`t follow the rules. NATC nationals go to time to decide the final tie breaker. There is no ride off, coin toss or whatever. There are a lot of clubs that run strictly the same rules to keep up with the current changes. So time does still count for placings at quite a few clubs across the country.
If you are a competitive type rider, time can matter. It`s best to just clean a few more sections. So riding at a snails pace is the silliest thing I have ever heard of between sections. Shift through the gears, burn some oil out of the exhaust and have some fun.
The guy blowing by you is not being a jerk, He is there to ride and win!!!
Or it`s me and I`m thirsty!
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:39 PM   #20
AteamNM
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In nationals, the pros and their minder's blow by. Then the EX and so one also whiz the loop. I hear them coming and give them the wave when I can move over. Same with others slower on the loop. Throttle rev and typically they do same. When they don't, it pisses me off in a big way. Move the fuck over and let me by. Some times you may have has a break down and and are in a mega hurry, others times like riding on the road, please speed up or move over. The pros spend 60 percent of their time on the first loop then they fly. What else needs to be said?
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:45 PM   #21
motojunky OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowPSI View Post
Good question. Both eras have things I like. But I wonder if today's rider knows what he is missing. There is lots of Old School stuff that we just don't do any more and I think some of the fun has been lost.

NOW: I like the bikes. They are amazing. Tires today are sooo good its ridiculous. Someday if you get a chance ride and old twinshock bike with original suspension and tires in a slippery creek be and you'll know what I mean. Brakes, suspension, motors, clutches are all so good now. The light weight is another cool thing. Back then the bikes were 200+ lbs. The new techniques are cool too, I like the splatters and big stuff. Some of the set up moves are cool too. I wish I could do it all.

THEN: I miss the flow of the sections and the loops. I miss the long loops. I love riding a great piece of trail. That's why I love the UTE CUP. .... Going 100 ft to the next section just doesn't do it for me. I know not all clubs have ideal terrain. I miss the variety of sections. Good section design is an art form, like a great road race track. Ravines, hill climbs, off cambers, mud all of it. I like sections that are designed to be fun and not just to get points. Today there is too much hop in a box then a rock. I feel like that is why people drop out. They get bored with the same 'ol thing.
Thanks. Being fairly new to the sport, this is all very interesting to me.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:06 PM   #22
lineaway
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I hear this alot, Today it is `old style`.
Old style: 10-30yard wide ribbon, multiple lines, a logical flow to the section, fun, challenging, real turns- never the same.
New style : 2-4ft ribbon, rarely more than one line, obstacle,ribbon, nice flat place to hop, obstacle,hop,ribbon,hop obstacle, another poorly thought section, ribbon hop! (could have been set in the church parking lot) Why does section 5 end at the start of three? Oh yeah , so Mom can see!
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:23 AM   #23
mung
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3 or 4 riders in the same section at the same time-that sounds like a great new sport!
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:43 AM   #24
LowPSI
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Originally Posted by mung View Post
3 or 4 riders in the same section at the same time-that sounds like a great new sport!

It's called The Scott Trial. Its been going on for a while.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=835939


http://www.richmondmotorclub.com/cat...trial-history/
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
You guys are worried about passsing on the trail, I passed two riders in a section multiple times during this event! Pure craZINES, but everyone was in the same boat. I cannot remember anyone really complaining too much. Most riders had traveled a long distance to compete and nobody wanted to DNF on time!
I know three people who have been hit and crashed out by the same guy on the loop in different events. Two of them said they never had time to react and didnt even know he was behind them. There is NO GOOD REASON to ride like that. Pass ALL YOU WANT, just do it safely. If your a good rider, with reasonable mental capability, it shouldn't be a deal breaker. I dont mean to imply that you pass recklessly , but only to clarify my position. To me, it's also part of the trials experience to meet friendly riders and families. Being polite is a good thing for the sport IMO.

My Dad told me a story about him getting stuck in a big peat bog at the SSDT (back in the 80's). He could not get his bike out and was wet, cold, tired, and fed up. Along came the current world trials champion and his minder -who stopped and helped him get his bike out. Even with the three of them, it took several minutes. He was proud to be part of a sport where the world champ would help a sportsman rider and was just amazed he would do that. He in turn always felt this was a vital part of the sport and was well known for helping people in need at events.

The UTE cup is a special event - the good news is that, NOW, any rider feeling really anxious to pass, can just smoke a joint and chill out....
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:18 PM   #26
lineaway
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The Ute Cup always had the coveted Flaming Arrow award for fastest time. Pretty sure it went away for that fuzzy warm feeling.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:35 AM   #27
Sting32
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Originally Posted by motojunky View Post
A seasoned veteran rider suggested that I ride the loop slowly. His opinion was that it would help to stay in the "trials mindset" if you rode the loop slowly between sections. Usually I use the loop to cool off and go a little faster but it's an interesting idea.
There are people that "take" advise differently. A competitor riding the 12 mile loop in 1st gear, just idleing along overall just being pokey for no reason, AND those guys that take 20 minutes per loop to sit at the pits, to just BS and what not, are thumbing his nose to everyone that has to stand there and wait until those riders "bothers to finish" or times out. Our clubs, afternoon classes judge (Observe) the morning riders, and vice versa for afternoon. Yet, seems to me, that every trials weekend we have SLOW ASS riders, EVERY weekend they use up the alotted time, and the 15 minute grace, which means I been out there judging for 3.5 hours, and now I dont get to eat when I get back to pits, because they dont move start times for our class (which is also a good thing, becuase I drive for 2.5 hours to get to the meet). It totally pisses me off to see people just pissing time away. Having had an issue, like flat tire and now they are hurrying to finnish, I have not only respect but usually cheer those guys on. but the dragging your feet and ass around the loop like a pre-school kid that doesnt want to get on the bus, is bullshit.

Riding the loop slow, isnt totally bad advice, but to me should NOT been said that way. It leaves too much, well, open for interpretation. Better choice of words (IMHO) would been "move along, 'as if you were at work' compared to a stroll in the sunset, with your girlfriend, on a pier somewhere." and I mean not a government job LOL I mean I have seen some slow ass people in government where you have to drive a stake to prove they have moved. You just got to keep moving, you take care and KEEP MOVING without being reckless. I dont "race" down any loop (except the parts where it is fun/easy to do so). 4th gear 1/4 throttle should be fast enough on the flat easy areas, and under control enough, and still not wear you out.

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Old 11-08-2012, 07:12 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
The UTE cup is a special event - the good news is that, NOW, any rider feeling really anxious to pass, can just smoke a joint and chill out....
Nice......
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #29
Sting32
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Originally Posted by PTRadam View Post
Nice......
Best FB quote, was "I know I can get rich now, selling junk food and pot from anywhere" and another chimed in with "Bundle them" Yahahahahaaa...
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:09 PM   #30
DerViking
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Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
Before I say something dumb, have you actually riden the UTE CUP? Most (except the fittest of the mountain states members [used to elevations] )are worn the hell out just riding the sections, let alone the loop.
3 of the last 4 years. Last year I was injured. This year I got 14th.
Yes, I am one of the young fit Mountain Riders. Home altitude is 7000 feet. And no, I don't have much energy the Monday after the event.

La Garrita is my favorite venue, for many reasons, but mostly for the very long trail sections. (sure its quad trail, but it still rippin good fun) I have maybe a little more energy and power than skill and dexterity for my class, a long punishing loop starts to level the playing field, or at least thats the way it seems sometimes. I like four loops at our regular trials for the same reason. That and more trials is always a good thing. This is a conversation about passing though, and Ute Cup is a good example of it working well. Some riders are very slow or very tired, or riding home a broken machine or person. Then there is Hillslamer, who is damn hard to keep up with. The fast guys keep panties unbunched until a safe place to pass, or the slower rider holds up in a flat spot. I have never seen it be a problem, though I did get a babyhead jammed in my rear wheel during a pass and nearly wad both of us. 1 of 2 times I have ever had a wheel jam on a motorcycle.

For me, time elapsed has at least a mental correlation with exhaustion. I have tried riding trials slow, taking my time, thinking about the sections, and I didn't do any better than running through them. Plus, the checkers were anxious to get me through so that they could clean up, which is not conducive to focus. I get a big endorphin buzz from really moving on trail, it never, ever, fails to get me stoked. This helps with pain and dramatically improves focus, at least for me.

Our club (CAT) has a cutoff, no grace, so the morning checkers get at least 40 minutes for lunch before we ride in the afternoon. We also can start at any section on a checked trial (buddy check sometimes) It was my habit to pick an empty section to start, which usually meant I could go as fast as I wanted for most of the trial. In Expert I need the advice of the others and end up with the usual slow lap, watching and learning (and fighting down a certain amount of terror). As mentioned above, 2nd, 3rd, 4th lap, the pack will be spread out, and is usually small to begin with, and you can get your shred on.

Bottom line, don't be a twit. There is no money in this for any of us, only the respect of our peers.
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