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Old 10-12-2012, 08:00 PM   #1
jondirt OP
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Offroad/onroad combination - Montana vs 350LM

Currently, I run two GPSs on my bike: a Zumo 550 and an Edge 800.

The Zumo 550 hits a sweetspot as a great onroad device - its good at recording log tracks, showing fuel/speed stats, and routing on US roads with City Navigator. Its robust and doesn't crash. However, when I load routes in from Basecamp, even with the same maps, the autorouting on the Zumo is different from the Basecamp routing, especially on offroad segments, and there is no way to see the original route generated by Basecamp (I wish there was a way to see both the original route in a gray line and the current autoroute in a different color... but nope). I can turn off autorouting, but then if I make a wrong turn I have to manually figure out how to get back on track. Also when I zoom out, the smaller trails disappear, so its hard to see navigate offroad. I restort to a game of turning autorouting on and off and zooming in and out - its easy to make errors. More so since the fine dust of Moab got into my Zumo 550's screen and made the touch sensor flakey.

A buddy has an Edge 800, which shows exactly the same route as the route produced by Basecamp. Its not designed for motorbikes, it sometimes crashes, but it does offroad pretty well, has a robust touch sensor, and shows good detail for smaller roads, so I started carrying both units on my bike, using the 550 loaded with City Navigator maps for the road segments and relying on the smaller Edge 800 with Topo maps for offroad segments. Cumbersome but it works.

Recently I started riding in Europe. My Zumo 550 doesn't handle the 2012 Europe City Navigator maps well (that or the maps are buggy) - it tells me to take exits that are actually overpasses... So I decided its time to look at the newer Montana and the 350LM.

Garmin has this trick where things that you imagine should be easy are hard. Map data is a good example. You imagine that once you buy a map, its like buying an ebook - you own it and can use it on your devices. Certainly, if you buy an sd card map, then its fairly easy to move the chip from one device to another. But every time you want to open the map in basecamp you have to plug a device in and wait for the maps to be transferred into basecamp, which can take a very long time. Plus you may not have that USB cable with you, its easy to misplace those chips, they don't label the MicroSD chips, and once you have multiple maps you cannot merge them onto one chip... So perhaps the DVD option seems good. Sure enough, if you buy the dvd version, the maps can be installed on a laptop easily, and run nicely with basecamp, but the unlock code is tied to a single device, its $$$ if you upgrade to a new device, and you now have to transfer the map data to the device, which takes a long time. The download option is similarly restrictive. You end up with choices that all have subtle corner cases where none of the options give you a sense of satisfaction and freedom you expect.

The new Montana/350LM devices are much the same.

Montana is very close to being an ideal onroad/offroad device, but as an onroad automotive device its missing some features:
* Doesn't have a fuel odometer, or multiple trip odometers, or low fuel warning.
* Claims it is glove ready, but the onscreen layout has smaller buttons than the Zumo, hardly easy on the fingers.
* Doesn't come loaded with city navigator maps - unclear how to put topo and street maps on the device at the same time since there is only one chip slot (see above).
* Doesn't give junction previews
* No physical-buttons, all touch-screen buttons. I like the 550s physical buttons when riding for common functions like toggling screens.
* No avoidances support
* Bulky compared to the 350LM

Zumo 350LM appears to be a well rounded 550 upgrade, although they deleted the media player features of the 550. Still, it has cons compared to the Montana:

* Same road disappearance issue as the 550 (the Montana shows more details, important offroad)
* Screen is less bright than the Montana
* No Garmin connect support
* No custom map support
* No BirdsEye satellite imagery support
* Unclear how well it handles autorouting for routes generated in Basecamp that mix offroad, direct and autorouted segments

I haven't looked at the touch screen technology, its unclear which device is going to handle fine Moab dust better... they are both expensive.

Garmin seems determined to keep their devices differentiated enough to make both the Montana and the Zumo less than ideal as adventure gps devices. For now I'm holding off buying until I see a single winner that clearly beats my two device setup. Perhaps someone out there has some other research to share on this?
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:56 PM   #2
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On the Zumo 550, leave auto recalc off and just use the Detour button to get back on route.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #3
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondirt View Post
Garmin has this trick where things that you imagine should be easy are hard. Map data is a good example. You imagine that once you buy a map, its like buying an ebook - you own it and can use it on your devices. Certainly, if you buy an sd card map, then its fairly easy to move the chip from one device to another. But every time you want to open the map in basecamp you have to plug a device in and wait for the maps to be transferred into basecamp, which can take a very long time. Plus you may not have that USB cable with you, its easy to misplace those chips, they don't label the MicroSD chips, and once you have multiple maps you cannot merge them onto one chip... So perhaps the DVD option seems good. Sure enough, if you buy the dvd version, the maps can be installed on a laptop easily, and run nicely with basecamp, but the unlock code is tied to a single device, its $$$ if you upgrade to a new device, and you now have to transfer the map data to the device, which takes a long time. The download option is similarly restrictive. You end up with choices that all have subtle corner cases where none of the options give you a sense of satisfaction and freedom you expect.

The new Montana/350LM devices are much the same.

Montana is very close to being an ideal onroad/offroad device, but as an onroad automotive device its missing some features:
* Doesn't have a fuel odometer, or multiple trip odometers, or low fuel warning.
* Claims it is glove ready, but the onscreen layout has smaller buttons than the Zumo, hardly easy on the fingers.
* Doesn't come loaded with city navigator maps - unclear how to put topo and street maps on the device at the same time since there is only one chip slot (see above).
* Doesn't give junction previews
* No physical-buttons, all touch-screen buttons. I like the 550s physical buttons when riding for common functions like toggling screens.
* No avoidances support
* Bulky compared to the 350LM

Zumo 350LM appears to be a well rounded 550 upgrade, although they deleted the media player features of the 550. Still, it has cons compared to the Montana:

* Same road disappearance issue as the 550 (the Montana shows more details, important offroad)
* Screen is less bright than the Montana
* No Garmin connect support
* No custom map support
* No BirdsEye satellite imagery support
* Unclear how well it handles autorouting for routes generated in Basecamp that mix offroad, direct and autorouted segments

I haven't looked at the touch screen technology, its unclear which device is going to handle fine Moab dust better... they are both expensive.

Garmin seems determined to keep their devices differentiated enough to make both the Montana and the Zumo less than ideal as adventure gps devices. For now I'm holding off buying until I see a single winner that clearly beats my two device setup. Perhaps someone out there has some other research to share on this?
As it pertains to Garmin Map Products, you should only purchase the DVD. This will enable you to install the maps onto any computer and use them in BaseCamp without having to have the GPS they are also installed on connected. I don't purchase many of Garmin's map products (CNNA the exception) any longer as the OSM maps are getting very good in most areas of the world.

You might want to do a little more homework on the Montana and BaseCamp/MapInstall. You can load as many map products as you have space for (32GB is the max µSD Card supported). With installed Routable Maps, you can set Avoidances just like on the zumo. Although you won't get Junction View with the Montana, you do get Lane Assist as with all CNNA installations.

The rest of your comments are subjective and all opinions are valid. Using gloves with any touch screen GPS is a "depends" proposition. It depends on your glove size, your dexterity and sometimes a little better understanding of how to best interact with the display. There are quite a few DS/Adventure Touring riders out there with Montana's today. If you want a little more info you might try browsing the Montana thread on this forum.

Good luck with your decision.

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Old 11-03-2012, 12:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
As it pertains to Garmin Map Products, you should only purchase the DVD. This will enable you to install the maps onto any computer and use them in BaseCamp without having to have the GPS they are also installed on connected. I don't purchase many of Garmin's map products (CNNA the exception) any longer as the OSM maps are getting very good in most areas of the world.

You might want to do a little more homework on the Montana and BaseCamp/MapInstall. You can load as many map products as you have space for (32GB is the max µSD Card supported).
The recent Garmin DVDs are locked. Its currently $75 per extra unlock key. If you buy a new Garmin device and you have two DVDs, you get to fork out an extra $150 on top of the cost of the new device. Ouch. With the chips, they may be slow to load in Basecamp and easy to misplace, but it costs nothing to move from device to device. For me, that makes the chips a better deal. Then again, the devices only have a single chip slot, so if you have a City Navigator and a Topo chip you must pick one... MapInstall doesn't help you there.

You are right, the OS maps are getting very good. The NZ Open GPS project is fantastic, for example. However, although the map is in some cases more up to date than Garmins' map, it doesn't contain topo data. For offroading, its really great to be able to see elevation data.

Quote:
The rest of your comments are subjective and all opinions are valid
Good point. Here's just the factual data:

Montana:
* Doesn't have a fuel odometer, or multiple trip odometers, or low fuel warning.
* The onscreen layout has smaller buttons than the Zumo.
* Doesn't come loaded with city navigator maps.
* Doesn't give junction previews
* Thicker and heavier than the 350LM

Zumo 350LM:
* Same road disappearance issue as the 550 (the Montana shows more details, important offroad)
* Screen is less bright than the Montana
* No Garmin connect support
* No custom map support
* No BirdsEye satellite imagery support
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:47 PM   #5
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Montana vs. 350LM

Good afternoon Jondirt,

This topic is of interest to us as well with the deployment of the new Zumo 350LM. We have both devices in the shop now and have done extensive testing in the last month on real world rides such as the Oregon Backcountry Discovery Route and regional street use. We have mounted the Zumo 350 on one bar and the Montana on the other and worked with them. The disparity is significant in multiple areas.

We have assembled our take on the new unit and have posted our findings in our GPS Ready Room thread here. We will have the devices in the shop for another two weeks so if there are specific questions or configurations you want to look at, let us know and we can sample them for you. We too have looked at all of the considerations that you have listed in addition to our own and have decided on the core devices to use.

Based on our testing, at this time, the Garmin Zumo 66x and Montana 6xx are the two series PND's that are recommended for your specific needs. The Zumo 350LM is a mild replacement for the Zumo 550 and lacks some inherent and important off road capabilites that will take extensive O.S. service packs to overcome, if at all.

Thumbs up - Dan Townsley is a respected GPS user and has real world experience in global travel with various GPS' under commercial use and environments. Glad he provided his input here.

Good luck with your decision. BTW, we like the TAT too.....


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Old 11-05-2012, 07:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Pilot View Post
We have assembled our take on the new unit and have posted our findings in our GPS Ready Room thread here. We will have the devices in the shop for another two weeks so if there are specific questions or configurations you want to look at, let us know and we can sample them for you.
Thanks Rivers Pilot - good to learn that about the 350LM, I will skip it. Also handy to learn about your operation, I'll keep it in mind. And yes, the TAT is a blast.

On the Montana, do you miss the fuel gauge support? Its something I frequently use on the Zumo 550...

I'd be sold on the Montana if it supported third party apps - then other groups could develop e.g. a fuel gauge, or multiple trip meters, or, my favorite idea for an app: a way to wirelessly transmit an address from my smartphone to the GPS. I often use my phone to find addresses, only to rekey them on my GPS.

I agree with you that Basecamp is the way to go. My biggest frustration with Mac Basecamp is that you can't create routes that combine auto-routing with direct-routing. So when I have a day planned out that combines offroad segments with road segments, I have to split it into multiple routes and load each one separately, changing device routing settings as I do so. As you point out, I could just follow a track, but drawing a track for a 300 mile day is tedious...
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:34 AM   #7
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondirt View Post
Thanks Rivers Pilot - good to learn that about the 350LM, I will skip it. Also handy to learn about your operation, I'll keep it in mind. And yes, the TAT is a blast.

On the Montana, do you miss the fuel gauge support? Its something I frequently use on the Zumo 550...

I'd be sold on the Montana if it supported third party apps - then other groups could develop e.g. a fuel gauge, or multiple trip meters, or, my favorite idea for an app: a way to wirelessly transmit an address from my smartphone to the GPS. I often use my phone to find addresses, only to rekey them on my GPS.

I agree with you that Basecamp is the way to go. My biggest frustration with Mac Basecamp is that you can't create routes that combine auto-routing with direct-routing. So when I have a day planned out that combines offroad segments with road segments, I have to split it into multiple routes and load each one separately, changing device routing settings as I do so. As you point out, I could just follow a track, but drawing a track for a 300 mile day is tedious...
Who told you that you could create mixed-routes in Mac BaseCamp? It's quite simple - just create your along-road route segment and then switch to a non-routable map of the area you want to Direct Route in. Create your via points for the Direct Route and then switch back to the routable map and continue your routing. DO NOT recalculate the Route or you will screwup the Direct Routing segments. Also, make sure that you do the final routing on the routable maps (the same version as is on your Montana). If you do recalculate and the routable segments turn "Direct", simply use the "Select-opt" edit tool to drag the segments back to a routable road.

Works for me every time...

P.S, Why are you "drawing" Tracks for a 300mi Day? Is that 300mi all not on a mapped road? When I want to create l-o-n-g Tracks, I just use the Routing tool and create a route. Then I just "Create Track from Route" and then add in any other track segments I might have.

Cheers,
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:31 PM   #8
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Garmin Zumo 350LM vs. Montana 660T

Good Day Jondirt,


Great. Good discussion. Addressing today's input:


1. Fuel Gauge Support - You are correct that the Montana does not support the same fuel gauge monitoring as the Zumo models. It will be unlikely that Garmin will add it at this time. It would take a lot of requests from users via Garmin Ideas or technical support to warrant the development hours. Great input and you are encouraged to drop Garmin a line and let them know your ideas for a perfect, well rounded GPS. This can be said for most comments to the Garmin and their marketing/development teams. The Montana does have the ability to add the Trip computer to just about anywhere on the screen(s) you like to create your own process to know when to get gas. These are typical field choice items and are usually handled by each user differently. TIP** In the field, the tour guide or lead rider resets their gas at every fueling, to ensure accurate time/distance covered. Other riders are encouraged to do so as well at their fueling. Always best to fuel together when in a group. On your own, you can zero out the trip odometer and 1. Create a waypoint at fuel or 2. Reset your GPS Trip Computer at fuel. For Zumo this is a non sequitur as the fuel gauge is built in.


2. Yes, there are 3rd party applications for Garmin and TomTom PND's. The largest seller of these applications is Spot It Out. They are approved vendors for Garmin and Tom Tom and sell their titles on those companies websites as well as their own. Been in business for 4 years and growing. They are ahead of the curve and once more GPS users are aware of GPS content applications, more content will be created. Circle of Life.


Additionally, both our company and Mad Maps have motorcycle oriented content that is used annually for DP and street rides on that site. The capabilities are increasing little by little. For example, our GPS title for Route 66 covers 5,000 miles of Route 66 with complete turn by turn directions, over 900 points of interest, pictures and in 40 audible languages. It even calls out the exact names of the roads in Text To Speech as listed on the signs on the road. As you can see, there is a market for GPS content and capabilities but, developers can only do so much and need to work with the specific platforms SDK kits. Your idea about address transfer is technically capable via bluetooth, wi-fi or Zig-bee but would need manufacturer buy in. Again, good input to get over to Garmin Ideas. In the meantime, the 6 million POI's in CNNT as well as your manual input can get you anywhere. Also, you can just "touch" the map and have the GPS route you right to the point if you know roughly where you are going. Field choice.


3. Drawing Tracks - I interpreted it that you were creating a route on routable roads and then having Basecamp "create track from route" to avoid the manual process of placing points. At times, one does both. Agree with Dan on this.


4. Direct - Routable creation - Dan is offering excellent advanced advice here. There are a few ways to achieve it and his is clean and fast while working in one program. In Basecamp you can just select" Global Map" or in Mapsource "No Map" and "fool" them into thinking you have to go direct at times. Other options are to 1. Segregate and create seperate Routes and Tracks during the planning phase and push them to the device on synchronization. This allows a user to know when they are on dirt or street. Also good for naming schemas when you are pre planning and want to determine stages (I.E) 1. Denver to Cheyenne - Route Roads 2. Cheyenne to Jackson - Dirt Track, etc. Finally, by segregating the tracks and routes, you can assign different colors to the segments. There are few ways to do all of this and those discussions are more common once the specific device is acquired and riding locations are determined. It all comes with training and experience. You'll do great.


Summary - Purchase the Zumo 660 or 665LM, 100K topo (non routable) or 24k topo (routable). Both have the fuel gauge that you are looking for. The new Zumo LM's don't come with DVD's (all download or direct import via Basecamp at connect) but do have enough internal space (2+ GB even with primary CNNT map installed) for both maps. SD card storage adds to it. You will always have the latest maps and can always download to "Device" or "Device and PC". You can always get the Montana 660T with the latest CNNT as a Lifetime Map add on Part # 010-11269-00. The Montana rocks and we have both as they are both stellar. At this time, it sounds like you are leaning towards a bit more of the road device features. The Zumo 660 is on the big bikes going worldwide and works double duty. Has sweet bluetooth for helmet goodness as well. If you have the scratch....go BIG and get both.


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Old 11-05-2012, 03:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
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2. Yes, there are 3rd party applications for Garmin and TomTom PND's. The largest seller of these applications is Spot It Out. They are approved vendors for Garmin and Tom Tom and sell their titles on those companies websites as well as their own. Been in business for 4 years and growing. They are ahead of the curve and once more GPS users are aware of GPS content applications, more content will be created. Circle of Life.
I think you are stretching the term "applications" in this reply. Most of the newer Garmin units support "Tour/Travel Guides" and with a little effort, users can create their own "Guides". But, these are not applications. They are Garmin "extensions" to the Custom POI capability of these units. Garmin does not provide an API for third-party programming on any of it's PND's.

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Old 11-05-2012, 06:23 PM   #10
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Garmin Montana vs. 350LM - Application Extension

Hello Dan,


Delighted to see your reply and will enjoy sharing some information regarding your points. You're a trusted GPS expert and all courtesies will be extended. Although the scope of our conversation will most likely be outside the use of the average GPS user, it may offer a glimpse into the "inner workings" of the units.

Let's remove Tom Tom from the conversation as no one has brought that up so far and the units aren't typically used by the community here.

Applications - Definition: While most past and current PND's allow for a custom .GPI to be created via the mildly simple and free Garmin POI Loader and then deployed to the units as "Tour Guides" with pictures, voices and other information, I am referring instead to the Garmin Content Toolkit. It is the next evolution beyond POI Loader and one must pay an annual fee to be an authorized GCT developer. On the index page for Garmin Content Toolkit it states, "The Garmin Content Toolkit consists of two applications:" and then goes on to list them. Additionally, on the Garmin Device SDK page it states, " For advanced users desiring to develop their own custom software applications for communicating with Garmin® GPS products," and it to goes on to describe them as "Applications".

These are truly "API's" that originate out of SDK's. While they may not extend the devices potential as far yet for user customization on par with Android or IOS, they are indeed the beginning of that concept and go as far as Garmin will allow at this time. The River Pilot applications created by using the Garmin Content Toolkit go beyond what an average user at their desktop or POI loader can do. Examples are:

1. Unlimited amount of Waypoints. There are no known limits yet.

2. No Track point limits. I routinely exceed 10,000 points. There are no known limits yet.

3. Ability to create a route that follows roads with full bilingual TTS and no "flags" or via points as usual and without the device calling out the next via point. Furthermore, as you know a track has no TTS triggers for audible navigation abilities and of course a Route with multiple via's will call them as the next destination in general while intermittently offering road designation. We have none of the problems and all of the "exactly what we were looking for" goodness. I would suggest watching a demo video of how it works here: We are staying on a defined road (recalculate set to "off") and not using a route but the device is behaving like it. Can only achieved with GCT and techniques.

4. Route over dirt or street with similar behaviors.

5. The software route runs in separate memory space and can be turned "Off" or "On". Same for the alerts. Looks like an application and behaves like an application. I would assert it is an application.

Dan, think of the possibilities. A user like yourself could go wild having some fun. Some of the limitations encountered by the average user melt away. Content Toolkit allows for encrypted .GPI's to protect I.P. and distribution. Content is delivered via Garmin Communicator. Your work with OSM is similar in some ways but we stay within the "mothership" and are guaranteed functionality.

Mapsource Product Creator (MPC) - This is rarified air and there are only a handful of authorized companies in geographic regions in the world who are allowed to create from it. Again, annual fee for development access. MPC allows for creation of entire maps and content, let alone applications. In essence, one could create a CNNT equivalent with all the capabilities. Routable segments over water, air, dirt, or even defy gravity. Whatever a creator wants to do. Have worked with samples and they are truly interesting.

I hope that satiates your interest and I encourage you to bring your skill set and enthusiasm to the table and investigate more about these products.

Dan, it's a treat to chat with you and have a great day.

@ jondirt - Thanks for the platform and allowing a discussion outside of scope.


Adios,


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Old 11-06-2012, 10:19 AM   #11
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Hello River Pilot Tours,

Quote:
Originally Posted by River Pilot View Post
@ jondirt - Thanks for the platform and allowing a discussion outside of scope.
My point was actually to address jondirt's comment about applications such as "Fuel". And, to my point, Garmin does not provide API's on any of their PND's to access that type of functionality.

I support your and other's efforts to expand the GPS Travel market. As for the Device SDK and the Garmin Content Toolkit, I have used both of those "kits" and found them to be of little long-term value - that was four years ago and I don't think anything has changed. Yes, the GCT could be defined as creating content applications. The main concern I had was that even though the GPI file is "locked" the reality is that there isn't any way to provide DRM in the GPS Travel [data] world. Once the GPI data has been used the intent of the application has been "released" to the user and the very platform it runs on by way of the GPS Track Log. That Track Log is the property of the User and the GPI application can not disable it - nor should it. So, what does that all mean? It means that we in the Travel business who provide GPS data to our customers must rely upon the moral ethics of the purchaser to control our IP. Since you work with Sam and the TAT data I expect that you have reviewed the years of discussion on this topic on advrider.com and we certainly don't need to start a new thread on the topic here. Glad to see that you are taking advantage of Sam's personal IP in your Tour products. I believe that our knowledge as "guides" is the real IP value in the touring business.

Then of course there's the not-so-little issue of which Garmin GPS products actually support Tour Guides. This point is the second reason I passed on the GCT for our tour data. We have little to no input in Garmin's product functionality. My experience has been that Garmin's Marketing group has repeatedly shown little awareness or support for third-party content like our's by continuing to release PND's that don't support the content but yet are targeted at our customers - the zumo 350LM is a good case in point.

Yes there is MPC - but my view is that Open Source data and compilers will continue to take market share from the third-party [MPC] map makers. Allowing the reverse-engineering of Garmin Map data/compilers is one of the main reasons Garmin has been so successful in my opinion - so I don't think Garmin will do anything to disrupt that trend in any major way.

Happy to discuss the GCT more with you off-line if you'd like - I had originally hoped it would produce content across all of Garmin's Adventure Touring and Dual Sport worthy GPS line - alas, not to be.

Got to run. Tour perp'ing for the 29 Dec start of our Alaska to Tierra del Fuego Adventure (Stage 2 & 3).

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Who told you that you could create mixed-routes in Mac BaseCamp? It's quite simple - just create your along-road route segment and then switch to a non-routable map of the area you want to Direct Route in. Create your via points for the Direct Route and then switch back to the routable map and continue your routing. DO NOT recalculate the Route or you will screwup the Direct Routing segments. Also, make sure that you do the final routing on the routable maps (the same version as is on your Montana). If you do recalculate and the routable segments turn "Direct", simply use the "Select-opt" edit tool to drag the segments back to a routable road.
Thanks - another workaround to create a route that mixes direct and auto-routing sections is to change the activity in the Routing Properties dialog while drawing the route (shown in this youtube video - note that you have to hit Cmd-Z after changing activities, that's not so obvious from the video).

For me, switching to a non-routable map as you suggest (the only nonroutable map I have of my area is the Global map), doesn't show the trails and other details I need to draw the route along... so I find switching activities the better approach.

However, your point "DO NOT recalculate" is the rub: In order to preserve the direct routing segments, you cannot modify the route (add or remove waypoints) after it is drawn; you cannot drag that route into another route to combine routes; if you decide to change the global routing preferences for the Motorcycle activity, ALL your direct routing segments are lost... there are probably other cases where recalculation is done. For a day trip, none of that is a big deal. But while planning a twenty day journey, I end up creating provisional routes, finding out that one day has too many miles, editing the previous day, discovering a new offroad segment etc... During all this this editing I've found I lost and had to redraw the direct routing segments too many times for me to trust the workaround you propose.

The direct routing segments are simply not persistent enough. What is missing is a way in the Waypoint Properties to indicate that a Waypoint should always be treated as a "direct-routing" waypoint...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
P.S, Why are you "drawing" Tracks for a 300mi Day? Is that 300mi all not on a mapped road? When I want to create l-o-n-g Tracks, I just use the Routing tool and create a route. Then I just "Create Track from Route" and then add in any other track segments I might have.
Good point - what you say made me think of the feature I really want - I'd like to be able to make a "Journey Folder" - a special type of folder where the idea is that all the routes and tracks in folder are automatically stitched together to make one long route, and you can load the entire journey onto the device in one step. That way I could make a collection of different routes and tracks, then drop them all into the Journey Folder and have the system generate a single long route representing the total journey. This is effectively what I end up doing now - I find various suggested routes and trails on the web and edit them all together. But currently doing things like balancing routing so there are a reasonable number of miles a day is tedious.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:44 PM   #13
DRTBYK
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Originally Posted by jondirt View Post
. . . .
The direct routing segments are simply not persistent enough. What is missing is a way in the Waypoint Properties to indicate that a Waypoint should always be treated as a "direct-routing" waypoint...

Good point - what you say made me think of the feature I really want - I'd like to be able to make a "Journey Folder" - a special type of folder where the idea is that all the routes and tracks in folder are automatically stitched together to make one long route, and you can load the entire journey onto the device in one step. That way I could make a collection of different routes and tracks, then drop them all into the Journey Folder and have the system generate a single long route representing the total journey. This is effectively what I end up doing now - I find various suggested routes and trails on the web and edit them all together. But currently doing things like balancing routing so there are a reasonable number of miles a day is tedious.
I also use the Route Properties window to do mixed-routing - I thought I would share the simple way.

Yeah, Garmin could make it easier on us folks that actually use the software to plan complex long Journeys - no matter what method we use: Tracks and/or Routes.

As for your "Journey Folder" idea, there is no way software is going to do trip optimization for you in a consistent manner that meets all of your expectations anytime soon - the next 20yrs. But, when it comes to sending all of your "Journey's" data together so that it shows as a collection, the Garmin Adventures feature is almost there. Unfortunately, for you who use Routes, they do not show in the Adventure "Collection" when it is transferred to the GPS (Handheld units only at this time). The Routes do get transferred to the Route Planner they just don't show in the "Collection". I can't fathom why Garmin did this but hopefully they will "fix" this soon.

If you don't already, I encourage you to go onto the Garmin Forums for Mac-BaseCamp and express your feature desires. The dev Team's do participate.

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