Kevlar & Kevlar Mesh riding gear

[JTT]

Originally Posted by teizms

book two for me
any type of kevlar pants would definitly b $300+

One can dream right?
I'm actually more than happy with superfibre, if it's cheaper, as it's about abrasion resistance in high wear areas, butt, knees, hips. The advantage of the stretch kevlar is the comfort factor (soft and stretchy), while still having abrasion protection.

[mabuz]

Im new to the ADV scene, and have been looking into kevlar riding clothing and plan to purchase some this spring, and if you can guess, I have narrowed it down to something along the lines of Motoport or Aerostitch.

The price, although hefty, is not an issue to me when considering this type of quality riding gear. As painful as it is to drop a grand or more for a jacket and pants, I think its more than worth it if I were to ever need this equipment.

My problem is pretty much the same as a lot of people note, as dumb as it sounds, is how these clothes look and/or fit. One is just bulky and ill fitting from a lot of reviews, while the other makes you look like a power ranger. In essence, buying good quality kevlar riding gear is similar to voting for a president in the fact that you pretty much end up going with the one you dislike the least.

If you could make something with equal quality and protection as these other manufacturers, and somehow have the fit and looks be a bit "nicer" you'd have a winner in my opinion. While I can fully appreciate function over form, I would definitely choose something that has both function and form if all other factors were the same.

[levain]

You can't really talk about mesh kevlar without comparing to Motoport. The two things Motoport does well is armor coverage and seam strength. Any chance of more armor coverage?

I've been considering a hybrid Motoport jacket. Mesh on arms, stretch on the body. For one of your suits, maybe mesh on arms and back, then a lighter cordura on the front, under arms etc.? Seems you could do a highly vented suit with minimal seams. Even better with the stretch kevlar, but thats going to add to the cost. It is an amazing fabric though.

Someone mentioned the collar. That is always a deal killer for me. So far, Rukka is the only manufacturer to nail that for me and their's couldn't be simpler. I suppose that is part of the problem. The manufacturers want to over think the simple stuff. Sometimes, simple works!

Ditch the velcro cinches on the arms. Again, look at what Rukka does with snaps. I've never seen a jacket that actually pulled elbow armor square on the elbow. Rukka nails this small detail with their perfect tailoring and the use of snaps vs. velcro. Speaking of velcro, leave it all off! Hate the stuff!

I'd like your jacket to zip to my motoport pants JTT mentioned

Fewest seams possible. Same with the logos.

[teizms]

Originally Posted by mabuz

Im new to the ADV scene, and have been looking into kevlar riding clothing and plan to purchase some this spring, and if you can guess, I have narrowed it down to something along the lines of Motoport or Aerostitch.
...

If you could make something with equal quality and protection as these other manufacturers, and somehow have the fit and looks be a bit "nicer" you'd have a winner in my opinion....

i am not going to compare it to the Motoport at the moment - not because of performance but simply because (a) they have a different direction in materials (b) their general marketing terms are beyond me and (c) their "looks" are significantly different direction from pretty much anyone.

with regards to Aero, there is no doubt that we have a superior product in the form of the current Power Shell. Specs are here:
http://store.teizms.com/power-shell
I am sure several folks will have their own opinions but for me the standard armor provided, SuperFabric, the comfort, the ventilation etc are far beyond the RC. If you want the waterproof layer to be fused to your suit (always continously wearing a rainsuit) then perhaps thats the choice for you.
http://www.teizms.com/blog/2011/09/1...ts-and-liners/

[vnp514]

Originally Posted by teizms

Hello folks,
We are "considering" adding Kevlar and Kevlar Mesh suits to our lineup in addition to the Power Shell and Lombard series. Yes these would be the same materials used by Motoport.

My question is, how many of you are looking for Kevlar/Kevlar Mesh gear and what do you want to spend on it. Before we invest in the idea, i want to get an idea of what you folks(the ones who are looking Kevlar based gear) have on your mind.

Please do share - All kinds of comments are welcome
Thanks

How about some type of trade in program? If we bought one of your suits(I did-Powershell) and wanted to trade up to Kevlar, give us a decent price for our used Teiz gear(depending on condition of course). You could re-condition the used gear, and resell it.

Pete

[teizms]

Originally Posted by vnp514

How about some type of trade in program? If we bought one of your suits(I did-Powershell) and wanted to trade up to Kevlar, give us a decent price for our used Teiz gear(depending on condition of course). You could re-condition the used gear, and resell it.

Pete

i have no idea when we will introduce kevlar based gear -but we always take good care of return customers regardless...

"recondition" in USA is an extremely expensive process...

[teizms]

Originally Posted by levain

You can't really talk about mesh kevlar without comparing to Motoport. The two things Motoport does well is armor coverage and seam strength. Any chance of more armor coverage?

I've been considering a hybrid Motoport jacket. Mesh on arms, stretch on the body. For one of your suits, maybe mesh on arms and back, then a lighter cordura on the front, under arms etc.? Seems you could do a highly vented suit with minimal seams. Even better with the stretch kevlar, but thats going to add to the cost. It is an amazing fabric though.

Someone mentioned the collar. That is always a deal killer for me. So far, Rukka is the only manufacturer to nail that for me and their's couldn't be simpler. I suppose that is part of the problem. The manufacturers want to over think the simple stuff. Sometimes, simple works!

Ditch the velcro cinches on the arms. Again, look at what Rukka does with snaps. I've never seen a jacket that actually pulled elbow armor square on the elbow. Rukka nails this small detail with their perfect tailoring and the use of snaps vs. velcro. Speaking of velcro, leave it all off! Hate the stuff!

I'd like your jacket to zip to my motoport pants JTT mentioned

Fewest seams possible. Same with the logos.

all good ideas

[bigbadandugly]

I'm not sure how you can build as good a product as Motoport and do it cheaper. My understanding is that his Swiss supplier charges him $200 a square yard for the Kevlar and it takes around 1.75 to 2 sq. yards to do a jacket.

The material cost and US labour costs alone make it an expensive endeavour.

[kevinj]

To summarize,
- around $1000-1200 for jacket plus pants that
- look flattering
- are truly protective
- I can make work year-round in a moderate climate with rain



I currently still ride in the cheap stuff I bought at cyclegear 2-3 years ago when I started riding and had so little money that I had no other options. I've been considering an upgrade for a long time, but every time I start doing research, I give up at some point. My hang-ups:

* Protection has to be demonstrably better than what I have. I believe that Motoport is actually safer than most; same goes for certain suits by other manufacturers. Other brands, e.g. rev-it, I'm really not so sure. Few brands communicate in a clear-enough way that I really trust their statements; certification is a murky swamp, etc.

* I want the BEST quality of armor. If T-Pro is better than Sas-Tec, then for Heaven's sake put it in there!! Or let me buy it as a supplement.

* Since I ride year-round, I have to be able to make the outfit work in all seasons (Seattle WA).

* MOST IMPORTANTLY. I have discovered that ATGATT is not natural for me. One reason is that my motorcycle is my only vehicle: it's not just for whole-afternoon rides on Saturday and Sunday, but also for a 10 minute trip to the store, to go meet a date at a restaurant, and to go to work. If the suit isn't somewhat EASY to wear and, most of all, ATTRACTIVE LOOKING - in other words, if I wouldn't feel good about my date seeing me arrive and park wearing it - then I will often just head out in regular street clothes plus a helmet and gloves. I'm not arguing that this is a smart approach - all I'm saying is, I've gotten to know myself over the years. I tried on an Aerostich 1-piece suit at a gear swap event - haha, I would never wear something so butt ugly!

* No clumsy liner business (I agree with the Teiz blog take on liners).

* I believe that leather is awesome, yet I don't see myself putting up with the disadvantages of the material.

* I want a 2 piece suit.

* I am skittish about buying before trying it on - the right fit is so important. That is one reason I may end up going with BMW in the end (there is a dealership here where I can try everything on) -- incidentally, I think the new Teiz formula of shipping a trial suit is a good move.


If you combine most of those ideas, you end up looking at things like the Rukka Armas and the Touratech/Stadler Companero. Those are roughly $2500 for jacket+pants, and that is more than my budget can support. Ideally, I would like to SPEND $1000-1200 on a suit (jacket+pants) that convinces me that it is worth that much in quality of materials and workmanship. Not to mention that I have some misgivings about the Cordura used in even those high-end products, as well as the Superfabric etc. (which has great lab results going for it, but what about road results? I once saw a test video of someone crashing (deliberately!) in a Rukka Armas and the results were not as impressive as hoped).


I'm almost certainly buying early 2013 so keep me in the loop :).

[kevinj]

Addendum - so for me it's not Motoport's price that keeps me from buying it, but rather looks (and perhaps the liner business). Wayne (Motoport) has argued that it is difficult to replicate his quality for less money, and that he has far lower markup (mrsp vs. cost of materials) than most cordura based suits, and I thought he sounded convincing.

Give me the looks of the Rukka/Stadler with the safety of Motoport for the price of Motoport or a little more, and I'm your customer.

[teizms]

Originally Posted by kevinj

Give me the looks of the Rukka/Stadler with the safety of Motoport for the price of Motoport or a little more, and I'm your customer.

we are on it - hopefully we will intrduce a kevlar based suit soon. we are talking to suppliers at the moment.
r u looking for a kevlar suit or a kevlar-mesh suit?

and thank you for the detailed reply - its the kind of feedback we are looking for
Thanks

[MZ5]

I'd like to 'update' my feedback from last month.

I agree with most of what kevinj posted yesterday, with a few very notable exceptions:

1) I do NOT believe that Motoport's gear is significantly more protective than any of several alternatives, and in fact I believe that my (relatively-speaking) VERY inexpensive Komodo Ceno leather jacket is noticeably more protective than Motoport.
2) I would not pay more than the current price of your Power Shell suit for something/anything else.

In fact, since I last posted in October, I have purchased one of your Lombard suits, used for a couple/few rides but in brand-new condition, from a fellow ADVrider forum member. Apart from it lacking hip armor (a very serious issue for me, but happily I have Forcefield PRO pants I can use under it), I find it to be a very, very good suit.

I prefer over-suit rain protection. Mostly that's because I live where it doesn't rain. :)

I would prefer a 2-piece suit, though a 1-piece is acceptable. I'd also like the pants to zip 360 degrees to my Komodo jacket. :)

[TheWorstKind]

I'd like to give you my thoughts on the inner liners of my motoport suit. I love them! The wind/rain liner on my motoport air mesh kevlar pants and jacket make this gear a genuine year-round outfit.

I live in Virginia Beach, VA. We experience all four seasons; July and August are 95-105 F, often times with humidity well above 85%. The liners are, obviously, not installed. If it rains, well, I'm usually in just some undergarments, so I don't care that I get wet. We tend to have beautiful spring and fall weather, though quite often with 20 F + temperature swings. For these seasons, the jacket liner is simply worn (rather than zipped in) for the cooler morning/night temps, and stashed in the pannier during the warmer parts of the day. If it rains, it really is not that difficult just slipping on both the pants and jacket liners (again, they don't need to be zipped in for them to work). The wind/rain liner in the jacket is good down to 55 F with just a T-shirt (for me). I don't wear the pants wind/rain liner until temps are below 45 F, as the regular pants I wear under the kevlar pants seem to do fine (I ride a GS Adv with excellent wind protection for the legs). The thermal liner for the jacket is usually just slipped on over my clothes, even in the winter.

To sum it up, the liner system gives the suit tremendous flexibility. Is it ideal that the outer garments get wet in the rain? No, but the benefit of keeping the wind off me when temps drop far exceed the negative of getting the outer garment wet, especially since "No rain hours" far exceed "rain hours". And for when it isn't raining, I love the air flow the mesh provides on hot and sticky days.

Also, keep in mind that two-thirds of the US population lives within 90 miles of the Atlantic - I would suspect that many of your potential customers have to battle high humidity conditions. For me that means a fused waterproof liner is a no-no.

I really do hope you come up with an outfit that can compete with motoport. Competition is a good thing for consumers. Even if you cannot beat Wayne in price, customer service is important, and, from everything I have read on ADV over the last few years, you seem to do right by folks.

[levain]

Originally Posted by teizms

we are on it - hopefully we will intrduce a kevlar based suit soon.

Any idea on timing? I was planning on a motoport mesh jacket for next summer. Probably need to get it ordered by feb. to avoid long wait.

[ghostryder]

Watching this thread as well. I'm looking to replace my summer (vented) gear and was interested in your products. Please keep us informed.