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Old 11-13-2012, 09:26 PM   #46
acesandeights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recker1 View Post
This is absolutely incorrect. As a former adjuster and current attorney, I can assure you that value of your claim will not be increased because you have an attorney. You may or may not want/need a lawyer, but as someone else said, you usually can get the same amount on your own without paying 1/3 to your atty. Just don't settle until you are better and remember that their first settlement offer is NOT their last.
^^^
This

Obviously posted by someone with experience.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:48 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
Poor advice and likely not true. You don't know their offer based on something that didn't happen (had you ridden in an ambulance) and as someone that's worked in the industry for years, it's just not true. An ambulance doesn't automatically add value. What it does do though is cost more, for your insurance company or whoever pays the bill.
From a financial standpoint this certainly makes sense.

On the other hand, you shouldn't be dissuaded from getting prompt medical care if you've had anything more than a trivial off. Having highsided due entirely to my own stupidity, I was distraught at the condition of my bike (1991 Transalp, right side plastics destroyed, otherwise unhurt) but otherwise under the impression everything was fine. I was eventually shepherded into an ambulance by concerned passers-by and later discovered I'd cracked both elbows; it only occurred to me that I might be injured when the paramedics asked me to take my jacket off and I found that I couldn't straighten my arms. I'd even picked the bike up ten minutes earlier.

Shock does exciting things to your judgement; I'm sure that I'd have had a punt at riding home if the Good Samaritans hadn't made me go to hospital and would doubtless have stacked it in a hedge or the front of an oncoming car.

The lesson I've taken away from all of this is that 'always take the ambulance ride' is actually excellent advice, insurance purposes aside.

(disclaimer: we have communist healthcare over here)
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:17 AM   #48
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Since the OP sufferend concussion injuries I would definitely recommend he get an attorney involved on his behalf. Treatment of concussion injuries are not like a sprained knee, particularly if the person has had a previous concussion. Symptoms can linger for months or even years, and you need to protect yourself from potential future medical costs associated with it, and I don't believe that anyone but an attorney is capable of negotiating a settlement that can offer you this protection. A concussion is a mild traumatic brain injury, and you'd be better off with a broken bone that will heal to full or almost full function, because your brain can't, and won't.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:39 AM   #49
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Insurance adjuster just left....says my 08 KLR is a total loss. My state doesn't allow me to buy back the bike unless it is more than 8 yrs old and so its bye bye even as a parts bike. I am having trouble with the insurance company of the guy who struck me. A "witness" alleges I was going fast prior to the accident and even though he was cited for failure to yield and I was not cited in any way and had the right of way, it begins this game of " modified comparative negligence" where they try to assign a percentage of blame to me in order to reduce that percentage of damages paid out. If anyone saw the scene, they would laugh at how anyone could have seen it that way or how other witnesses didn't corroborate that story and I was making a freak left hand turn which leads 100 feet to my doorstep. I think some people seriously have a problem/bias with motorcycles from the get go. That is why my insurance company is involved now. Anyways, the adjuster did take down a list of accessories and gear that was damaged along with the bike. I asked him personally what his experience has been when it comes to a fair amount for pain and suffering and he said 3X the medical bills (with xray and cat scan included). I suppose now its a wait and see, going to give it until after xmas and see if they come back with an offer thats fair. I do have an attorney friend who has called me an offered free advice and to take it on if necessary.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:37 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbtech View Post
Insurance adjuster just left....says my 08 KLR is a total loss. My state doesn't allow me to buy back the bike unless it is more than 8 yrs old and so its bye bye even as a parts bike. I am having trouble with the insurance company of the guy who struck me. A "witness" alleges I was going fast prior to the accident and even though he was cited for failure to yield and I was not cited in any way and had the right of way, it begins this game of " modified comparative negligence" where they try to assign a percentage of blame to me in order to reduce that percentage of damages paid out. If anyone saw the scene, they would laugh at how anyone could have seen it that way or how other witnesses didn't corroborate that story and I was making a freak left hand turn which leads 100 feet to my doorstep. I think some people seriously have a problem/bias with motorcycles from the get go. That is why my insurance company is involved now. Anyways, the adjuster did take down a list of accessories and gear that was damaged along with the bike. I asked him personally what his experience has been when it comes to a fair amount for pain and suffering and he said 3X the medical bills (with xray and cat scan included). I suppose now its a wait and see, going to give it until after xmas and see if they come back with an offer thats fair. I do have an attorney friend who has called me an offered free advice and to take it on if necessary.
sorry the insurance company is trying to screw you....i guess that's just some of them do business. :( keep your head up and all the best to you!
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:02 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by bbtech View Post
I asked him personally what his experience has been when it comes to a fair amount for pain and suffering and he said 3X the medical bills (with xray and cat scan included).
Is this 3X after the medical insurance negotiated rate? For instance, I got a bill for the 5 hours of Emergency Room and it was $17500. But later on my insurance negotiated that down and my maximum out of pocket is $6000. So would that be 3X6000 or 3X17500? I am very interested in this thread becuase I am going through the exact same thing right now.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:57 AM   #52
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3x medicals is an internet myth. Medical bills can often be irrespective of "pain and suffering." If you broke your femur, what would it cost for an x-ray and setting it? What if you had what appeared to be a bruise, but it was DVT and you had relatively inexpensive treatments for over a year? How much would the treatment cost relative to the mental anguish, or having your leg up or discomfort sleeping?

To put it more clearly, you can have a $1.5k broken bone bill on a weight bearing bone that disrupts every aspect of your life. It's not then a $4.5 settlement. Then, someone with a soft tissue injury that goes to a chiro, acupuncturist and massage therapist might rack up $10k in meds. It doesn't mean someone with a broken leg/arm gets $4.5 and someone with a soft tissue injury gets $30k. Medical bills, chart notes and records only provide the information to evaluate the injury, not a matrix or multiplier. Just doesn't work that way, and it tends to set people up for disappointment when this rumor gets repeated. There is so much more involved in injury settlement, medical bill amounts are one of the least important, least relevant to the settlement amount.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:46 AM   #53
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Two Saturdays ago a young guy ran a stop sign and T boned me in the intersection. Both were one-way city streets. I was doing about 20mph and he was doing maybe 15mph. It was dark and I had no eye contact. I thought he was stopping until he drove right into me. He was looking for a parking spot and missed the sign.

His insurance company didn't flinch. My insurance company (USAA) kept me informed. No deductable will be charged me.

In 1989 I stopped at a traffic light on highway 68 between Salinas and Monterey. Old woman in a Caddy plowed right into my rear, totalling the car. I had young son in the back seat in a car seat.

Old woman's insurance company replaced my car and chased me for a PI release for a year. Since no injury surfaced for son, I finally took a payment in exchange for the release.

I think you only need a lawyer when you have a lot of money at stake.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:14 PM   #54
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I just want a fair settlement and it just seems these Insurance companies are focused on low balling you to death. My Insurance company uses a 3rd party company called Audatex to determine value for my KLR and they come back with $3,900 minus my 1K deductible, that's $2,900. They are supposed to then try and recoup the deductible from the other guys insurance which I wouldn't hold my breath over. I could go through the other guys insurance instead but they also use a 3rd party company, also called Audatex (that's right, same damn company) who has determined the value for my 2008 KLR in great condition to be valued at $2,900. I ask you, what sort of sham is going on here that the same company comes back with valuations 1K apart? I protest and voice my objection (especially to the other guys insurance company) but how am I supposed to negotiate this (or can I)?
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:11 PM   #55
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Often insurance companies use a 3rd party valuation company. There are companies that specialize in valuations and insurance companies rely on them to get values.

Yes, you can likely negotiate the value; HOWEVER, the companies that do valuations support their values. Insurance companies wouldn't use them if they wouldn't hold up in court, meaning they have to have significant support of their values. That said, the way you get a higher value is to support a higher value.

Go on cycletrader.com, local newspapers and online resources and find as many similar motos to yours as you can. The closer to yours in mileage, age, farkles, etc the better it supports that value. Closer to your zip code also is better (values fluctuate over the state, nation). So, document your value in every way you can and submit it to your insurance company (or the other person's). One of the things this often does is show the owner the actual cash value (ACV) is lower than they thought; HOWEVER, I've also seen people's values raised based on good support and documentation. Document, document, document.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:48 PM   #56
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Make the SOB's pay for an MRI for your knee!! AND get the right to recover for any hidden injury in the future.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:57 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
Often insurance companies use a 3rd party valuation company. There are companies that specialize in valuations and insurance companies rely on them to get values.

Yes, you can likely negotiate the value; HOWEVER, the companies that do valuations support their values. Insurance companies wouldn't use them if they wouldn't hold up in court, meaning they have to have significant support of their values. That said, the way you get a higher value is to support a higher value.

Go on cycletrader.com, local newspapers and online resources and find as many similar motos to yours as you can. The closer to yours in mileage, age, farkles, etc the better it supports that value. Closer to your zip code also is better (values fluctuate over the state, nation). So, document your value in every way you can and submit it to your insurance company (or the other person's). One of the things this often does is show the owner the actual cash value (ACV) is lower than they thought; HOWEVER, I've also seen people's values raised based on good support and documentation. Document, document, document.

My problem is not that they use a company that specializes in doing valuations....but in the fact the same company doing the evaluation for both of the insurance companies came up with a valuation that was just over a grand in difference. This is a 25% difference. What would you think if you had a Tiger 800XC valued at 10K and the same company came back with a valuation for $7,500? Do you see anyone selling a Tiger 800XC for $7,500? Do you see anyone selling a 2008 KLR is great condition with virtually every mod done to it for 3K? They find one crappy KLR that someone is selling for $3,200 and suddenly my bike isn't worth what its worth? They don't even have to take all of their comparisons (many which were up to $4,500) and then average them out. These guys just seem to be able to make up their own rules as they go along. Why should I be mowed down by an inattentive driver and then be mowed over by an insurance company like Liberty Mutual with a value that will not even buy me the crappy low priced scratch post dropped a few times 2008 KLR that Audatex could drum up from an advertisement? I would bet that bike doesn't have new tires, new battery, and all the upgrades (doohickey, subframe upgrade, KLX needle, jetted carb, new sprockets/chain, tall windshield and much more). Wait says Liberty Mutual, those are just "expected work for properly maintaining the bike".

PS... Wouldn't you say the best documentation for why the second evaluation is wrong is the same companies first evaluation?
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:26 PM   #58
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I'm not disagreeing with you at all. You're right, the same company doing the evaluation should have the same dollar figure, except there are reasons why they wouldn't. I'm guessing their "comparables" are based on different criteria or another bike sold between evaluations. One of the evaluations is probably based on different distance from your zip or something like that. I know I would argue to open a wider market if I thought our insured's vehicle wasn't very well represented. Say a valuation was based on comparables within 150 miles from your zip code, if the values that came back seemed low, I'd argue that we should increase the radius to 300 miles in hopes it included vehicles that sold a little higher. It might be reasonable, and it might hold up in court to use 150 miles, but if I could justify a higher comparable value for my insured I would. Sounds like your insurance company is trying to help you out as much as they can. They probably don't have to, and the other person's insurance is probably doing everything right (just not going out of their way to help you). I could be wrong, but that's my take on two different values.

Or, the other person's insurance doesn't have all of the information. Maybe they don't have all the farkle information, or have the mileage wrong, OR, and this could certainly account for it, maybe they are valuing your bike in the condition it was and your insurance carrier is adding $1000 for gear and accessories.

On a lot of policies there is a $1000 extra coverage for accessories. Accessories very seldom add much value. A $1k worth of farkles might add $150 value to the bike. Not because your farkles aren't worth it, but the value is based on what Average-Joe would pay extra to have those farkles. A lot of times the farkles are owner specific (i.e., having $1k worth of suspension upgrades may mean very little to the guy looking for his first bike, or you're 150 lbs and I'm 200 lbs so I have to get it re-sprung anyway). Sometimes an upgrade adds no value at all. A HID headlight wouldn't add value to a bike for me because I don't need one, as an example, so two bikes exactly the same except for that...well, I'd buy the less expensive one. Anyway, what I'm getting at is farkles mean very little in the determination of actual cash value; however, your policy may have an extra coverage for accessories that is driving up the value through your own carrier that wouldn't be dollar-for-dollar through the other carrier.

Another aspect is "actual cash" value (ACV). What's the cost of a bike if you walk up with cash. Usually it drives the price down a bit. So, the insurance company doesn't care about financing, percentage rates, terms or anything else when they determine a value. When I had to research my own values I'd literally call an owner with a bike for sale and tell them my insured (or claimant) was getting a check that they could cash and could bring $100 bills. What's the price of the bike if the guy brings you $100 bills, pays cash. It always was less than the advertised price. That drives down the "actual cash" value.

So, there are reasons why there might be a difference. If they used the same criteria though, there shouldn't (unless there was some outlier bike that drove the price up or down, which happens). What you can do though is ask for the valuations. In my state we had to provide them and we would readily, because ultimately an informed person is easier to settle with than one that is arguing based on emotion. I hope that helps explain.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:29 PM   #59
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...
PS... Wouldn't you say the best documentation for why the second evaluation is wrong is the same companies first evaluation?
You have to confirm the variables they are using before you know that.
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