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Old 10-02-2012, 08:44 AM   #151
Dabears
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:42 AM   #152
redhandmoto
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Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
heh heh...

But I can completely see where Jerry's coming from: the response of a machine to one's personal manipulations and adjustments, the seeing to of the mount. Modern technology may be more reliable, but a component of personal involvement and responsibilty is gone. cf Shopcraft as Soulcraft.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:54 AM   #153
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People becoming dependent on modern technology and conveniences???

It could never happen!!


Could it??

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Old 10-02-2012, 04:53 PM   #154
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"Technology . . . the knack of so arranging the world that we need not experience it" - Max Frisch.

I'm cool with modern motorcycle technology, but I understand where Jerry is coming from. He is out there on an extreme, but not the type that hurts anybody. More power to him (unless he's trolling).
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:06 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Speedo66 View Post
I used to feel that power windows were just another thing to go wrong, but, guess what, they didn't.
Obviously, you've never owned a VW Jetta.

;^)
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:36 AM   #156
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No trolling here. Everything I've posted are my actual feelings and beliefs. I knew almost nobody would agree, but I had to express them anyway. And it is refreshing to see that at least a few understand.

My youngest daughter (21) and I have this argument all the time. I grew up when music was actually made by talented musicians and vocalists. Movies and TV shows were done by real actors. These people were true artists. That's the way I feel it should be. Todays music (if you could call it that) and movies are mostly computer generated. Most of the great actors, musicians, and singers from my generation are gone, and they have not been replaced with more. Fortunately their stuff is still here, even if you do have to watch or listen to it in digital format.

Remember the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie "Total Recall"? I'm predicting that's the way the future will be. Instead of actually going out and doing something, you will step into a machine, and experience whatever you want in your mind, without having to move. Maybe you could rent "experiences" like movies. If you think this is crazy, it is in fact being worked on, just like driverless cars. At some point (fortunately not in my lifetime) reality as we know it may cease to exist.

This has nothing to do with the original electronic ignition, which was developed before the digital age. I am in fact a fan of GM's original HEI ignition, also the original Jacobs aftermarket system. I guess you could call it electronic, if you call a 50's tube type radio electronic, but my definition of electronic is digital electronics. I have built and repaired many of those old radios. But todays digital crap is completely beyond me, even in concept. The fact that it may work better is irrelevant. Amateur Radio is supposed to be a hobby. Today you get your no code license, buy a few thousand dollars worth of digital equipment, and start talking. Where is the hobby in that?


And yes, at this point in my life I am very much against digital electronic technology. I have already seen and experienced the damage it has done, and the future plans for it scare the hell out of me. My grandkids may never know reality. None of the "benefits" of this technology are even close to being worth the harm it has and will cause. Do you really think we are better off now that half the world is armed with nuclear weapons? Do you think we will be better off when we develop the technology to clone human beings, and can create huge numbers of "copies", genetic duplicates who will have no parents and no identity? Scientists point out all the potential positive aspects of genetic engineering, like preventing birth defects and genetically inherited conditions, but they forget to mention the other side. Just how far is far enough?
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:46 PM   #157
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Everyone is comfortable with different levels of technology. On one hand we have the Amish who don't use electricity or any modern technology, and on the other hand we have those who go stand in line for a day to get the latest gadget when it comes out. Most of us are somewhere in between. Personally I have nothing against modern technology if it is an improvement over what it is replacing. However, a lot of modern technology is not so much an improvement, as it is a huge change. Look at the modern cell phone. It's no longer just a phone, it is the center of many peoples lives. You can do almost anything today with your "smart" phone. Soon people will grow tired of having to manually command their phone and will have them hardwired to their brains. What I see in our future looks a lot like the Borg from Star Trek. Resistance is futile! We will assimilate you. Just like the Borg, people cut off from their link to the rest of the world (their smart phone) are completely lost. Think I'm over exaggerating here? How many people do you Know that are NEVER without their smart phone?

Getting back to motorcycles/scooters. My biggest problem with many modern bikes is that they have become overly complex to the point that they are difficult to service, and also that styling and image often replace functionality and useability. Look at the seat on many motorcycles. they certainly weren't designed for someone to sit comfortably on. The tail section on many modern motorcycles are very difficult to mount any luggage on. One of the reasons that small scooters appeal to me is that they are still designed to actually be practical and some of them are still relatively simple and easy to work on. No, I can't fix the electronic ignition if it fails but I can easily change to oil, adjust the valves and do other routine maintenance.

Now, if someone would use modern technology to eliminate most of this servicing (Hydraulic valves, belts that don't wear out, etc) I'd be all for it.

As for modern vs "character". They aren't mutually exclusive. A Ducati Panignale is about as high tech as bike come. Does it have character, sure. Do I want one? No. It has way more capability than I have skill.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:54 PM   #158
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Actually Klaviator, your cellphone analogy sort of proves at least a small part of Jerry's point. Go to any restaurant, and you'll see families, husbands and wives looking at their cell phones while waiting for dinner. They're on Facebook, or texting, ignoring the real person in front of them, while partaking in some virtual conversation that must be far more engaging than the person they are sitting next to. I'm not exaggerating, I have been one of those people, and I'm determined to stop being one of them.

I've also noticed that as the world of aquaintances (I don't mind real friends and family) gets more and more instant access to me at any time of day via email and text on my phone, my attention span has shortened. When I'm at work, I can't give 10 minutes of undivided attention to a project without a text or an email coming in (and of course, Apple's new OS makes sure that this event gets a banner right in front of your face now instead of going quietly into a mail box to be read later.) These things are not making my life better, they are making it fragmented into 5 minute bites.

I'm turning stuff off. I'll still have the iPhone because yes it is a wonderful tool, but from now on I'm trying to recapture time rather than being at the beck and call of every electronic pavlovian ringtone, announcing a picture of a donut someone just bought.

I'll look at it when I have time.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:54 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post

Getting back to motorcycles/scooters. My biggest problem with many modern bikes is that they have become overly complex to the point that they are difficult to service, and also that styling and image often replace functionality and useability. Look at the seat on many motorcycles. they certainly weren't designed for someone to sit comfortably on. The tail section on many modern motorcycles are very difficult to mount any luggage on. One of the reasons that small scooters appeal to me is that they are still designed to actually be practical and some of them are still relatively simple and easy to work on. No, I can't fix the electronic ignition if it fails but I can easily change to oil, adjust the valves and do other routine maintenance.

Now, if someone would use modern technology to eliminate most of this servicing (Hydraulic valves, belts that don't wear out, etc) I'd be all for it.
Ha! Hydraulic tappets require high oil galley pressures (instead of the semi-splash systems with maybe 5-10 psi to the heads) and also sap a lot of power...less efficient; because the valve action loses a lot of "snap." On a car that's acceptable...just put a somewhat bigger engine in. Note that originally on the economy models (the Pinto engine, the Yugo and VW engines; and the Chrysler Slant Six, which was designed for the Valiant) manufacturers continued to use mechanically-adjusted valves. Because at the time those cars needed all the power those engines could put out.

Styling on modern motorcycles: I'm as put-off as you are...but it dawned on me. The "stepped seat" on the cruisers, is to give the little lady (who is ALWAYS the passenger) a higher seat so she can see over the shoulder of her man/the operator. I got into riding in the 1980s when the UJB was just being phased out...I had a Yamaha SR500; a classic UJB with a straight long saddle. And my woman was a lot shorter than me.

And while she liked being with me out there, she didn't much like the scenery, which was mostly my backbone.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #160
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Every Harley I have owned had hydraulic lifters but they had pushrods and did not rev really high. Its not that hydraulic lifters are less efficient than solid lifters, they aren't. Hydraulic lifters will float out at high rpm. Solid lifters do not suffer from this and will rev higher. Thats why back in the day most all the high performance engines had solid lifters.
That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Hydraulic tappets lose much of the "snap" that poppet valves have. And yes, at high rpms, they will float.

But that Slant Six, although a strong runner...that was no racing engine!
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:26 PM   #161
GoonerYoda
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Originally Posted by cbolling View Post
What about a Truimph Bonneville?

You get the retro but with modern reliability.


Hipster cool
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:38 PM   #162
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The Bonneville is a sweet ride, and it looks great (except for the newer versions with cast 17" wheels and megaphone pipes), but like all new bikes, it is almost completely devoid of character. Riding one is a purely visual experience. It's engine sounds like a sewing machine, and does not shake. It's also to quiet, but that can be fixed.
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