Ballistic Batteries

DrWez · 11-18-2012, 11:05 AM

Has anyone installed a Ballistic EV02 12 cell battery in a R1200 GSA? I just installed one in my 2010 and I am having problems. The battery doesn't doesn't seem to have enough CCAs to turn the engine over. Even after charging and riding the bike some, it still doesn't want to turn over the engine for a quick start. I had read lots of good things about these batteries. Any other bad experiences?
Wes

def · 11-18-2012, 11:56 AM

Your lithium Ballistic battery is likely not going to start your boxer engine in winter in Manitowoc, WI.

You're best off with a quality AGM battery like the Odyssey.

DDT Rider · 11-18-2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrWez

Has anyone installed a Ballistic EV02 12 cell battery in a R1200 GSA? I just installed one in my 2010 and I am having problems. The battery doesn't doesn't seem to have enough CCAs to turn the engine over. Even after charging and riding the bike some, it still doesn't want to turn over the engine for a quick start. I had read lots of good things about these batteries. Any other bad experiences?
Wes

I actually had two that did not maintain the ability to start my bike. The supplier suggested that my bike had some rare ZFE power drain that he had heard of.

Scratching my head, I had the dealer see if they could find any drain, which they could not...I ended up buying a BMW batt and dropped the whole thing.

This was not cold weather...

larryboy · 11-18-2012, 05:21 PM

I have one on my 1150, starts it up just fine...over a year on the battery now. I do have it on a master disconnect switch with the only key off draw being the clock. It even sat for a few months and fired right up when asked.

DrWez · 11-18-2012, 06:54 PM

Mine was problematic right from the start. Would not crank over the bike until a fast charge and balance. Even then the start was not strong and after shutting off bike and letting it sit, the battery had a hard time cranking the engine.

larryboy · 11-18-2012, 07:42 PM

Was the last battery doing the same thing? Check your grounds if so.

def · 11-18-2012, 08:24 PM

Unless you get a very high Ahr rated LiFePo battery, these batteries are not really good engine start batteries. The cost benefit isn't there.

In other words, the Li battery isn't ready for prime time just yet.

larryboy · 11-18-2012, 08:35 PM

The Ballistic is designed as a starting battery and works great. Cost benefit isn't there at all, but it costs money to get rid of weight and it was pretty cheap to dump 12 pounds of fat off the big pig.

Have you read about how to use this battery? It doesn't do things like normal batteries, read the FAQ at Ballistic and try it again.

DDT Rider · 11-18-2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryboy

The Ballistic is designed as a starting battery and works great. Cost benefit isn't there at all, but it costs money to get rid of weight and it was pretty cheap to dump 12 pounds of fat off the big pig.

Have you read about how to use this battery? It doesn't do things like normal batteries, read the FAQ at Ballistic and try it again.

Been there done that...it would not maintain a start able charge in my bike...after an in-house balance and charge, will start, but not after road use...Again, not cold weather...

Regular batt has been working fine for months now...

_cy_ · 11-19-2012, 12:13 AM

follow link in my signature if you need details why ...

have posted this several times, but here goes again:

for most folks, my advice is go with AGM. unless weight is totally critical. AGM has one of the main advantages of LiFePO4 which is very low self discharge. unless one has a large parasitic current drain. trickle charger will not be needed for LiFePO4 or AGM over the winter.

some bikes normally have a small self discharge. for those bikes a trickle charger will be needed regardless of what type battery is used. Your lead/acid battery charger may or may not properly charge LiFePO4 batteries.

if you've got a modern adventure bike and decide that it's worth $$$ to save 10 lb or so over AGM or Gel. forget the marketing hype mfg use to calculate which battery to use.

use actual amp hour rating less 25%. note this is for modern Adventure bikes, which has one of the highest battery demands of any bike. example, if factory ratings is 12 amp hour x .75 = 9 amp hour actual LiFePO4 amp hour rating.

some bikes that only are used in fair weather can get by with much lower LiFePO4 amp hour ratings. one advantage of LiFePO4 batteries is ability to deliver larger amps for size, while maintaining a very flat discharge cycle.

learning how to start your bike with LiFePO4 in cold weather is mandatory. yes procedures are different.

take mfg amp hour ratings with a bucket of salt... use real amp hour ratings to size your LiFePO4 needs. LiFePO4 batteries when sized properly are robust, super lightweight batteries.

def · 11-19-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _cy_

follow link in my signature if you need details why ...

have posted this several times, but here goes again:

for most folks, my advice is go with AGM. unless weight is totally critical. AGM has one of the main advantages of LiFePO4 which is very low self discharge. unless one has a large parasitic current drain. trickle charger will not be needed for LiFePO4 or AGM over the winter.

some bikes normally have a small self discharge. for those bikes a trickle charger will be needed regardless of what type battery is used. Your lead/acid battery charger may or may not properly charge LiFePO4 batteries.

if you've got a modern adventure bike and decide that it's worth $$$ to save 10 lb or so over AGM or Gel. forget the marketing hype mfg use to calculate which battery to use.

use actual amp hour rating less 25%. note this is for modern Adventure bikes, which has one of the highest battery demands of any bike. example, if factory ratings is 12 amp hour x .75 = 9 amp hour actual LiFePO4 amp hour rating.

some bikes that only are used in fair weather can get by with much lower LiFePO4 amp hour ratings. one advantage of LiFePO4 batteries is ability to deliver larger amps for size, while maintaining a very flat discharge cycle.

learning how to start your bike with LiFePO4 in cold weather is mandatory. yes procedures are different.

take mfg amp hour ratings with a bucket of salt... use real amp hour ratings to size your LiFePO4 needs. LiFePO4 batteries when sized properly are robust, super lightweight batteries.

The BMW boxer engine requires quite a bit of starter motor torque to spin the engine past compression stroke, especially at cold start. As each piston approaches TDC during starting, the starter motor current demand increases rapidly placing increased demand on the battery and other starter circuit components.

Li FePo batteries do not respond to this rising rate demand as well as a lead-acid battery. Hence, these batteries don't perform well in engine start applications. As such, if a Li battery is used in this application, considerably more battery capacity should be chosen over lead-acid to insure reliable starting.

Also, my diesel motorhome powerplant has a compression ratio of about 15.5:1. When cold, the starter needs lots of CCAs to spin the engine successfully without overloading the starter circuit. If the batteries are not fully charged, the current diminishes as pistons come to TDC placing further demand on the starter circuit, starter solenoid and wiring.

Yes, LiFePo batteries are light weight. They are fine for applications where there is a kick starter and the battery is used for ignition such as on moto cross bikes.

As I stated, they aren't ready for prime time just yet IMO.

mrdirtbikerider · 11-19-2012, 03:20 PM

I have been using a Ballistic Evo2 12cell in my Ktm 950 v twin, with no problems. Knock on wood

space · 11-19-2012, 04:15 PM

Ballistic 12 cell in my HP2E. No problem here either.

Probably the cheapest way to remove weight from your bike -- short of dieting.

larryboy · 11-20-2012, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by def

The BMW boxer engine requires quite a bit of starter motor torque to spin the engine past compression stroke, especially at cold start. As each piston approaches TDC during starting, the starter motor current demand increases rapidly placing increased demand on the battery and other starter circuit components.

Li FePo batteries do not respond to this rising rate demand as well as a lead-acid battery. Hence, these batteries don't perform well in engine start applications. As such, if a Li battery is used in this application, considerably more battery capacity should be chosen over lead-acid to insure reliable starting.

Also, my diesel motorhome powerplant has a compression ratio of about 15.5:1. When cold, the starter needs lots of CCAs to spin the engine successfully without overloading the starter circuit. If the batteries are not fully charged, the current diminishes as pistons come to TDC placing further demand on the starter circuit, starter solenoid and wiring.

Yes, LiFePo batteries are light weight. They are fine for applications where there is a kick starter and the battery is used for ignition such as on moto cross bikes.

As I stated, they aren't ready for prime time just yet IMO.

I know you're an expert and all, but have you tried a Ballistic battery on your boxer?

def · 11-20-2012, 10:08 AM

Larry, I am not an expert regarding batteries, or much else, for that matter.

I would recommend you read this thread.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757934

There are some folks who are experts and I bow to their knowledge.

My experience with Li batteries is limited to power tools and cell phones where they work very well.

I am still a fan of the Odyssey AGM battery for the boxer.

I'm a steam and coal guy when it comes to generating electric power...does that tell you anything about my level of knowledge?

11-18-2012, 11:05 AM	#1
DrWez ^OP Mad Scientist Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Manitowoc, WI Oddometer: 62	Ballistic Batteries Has anyone installed a Ballistic EV02 12 cell battery in a R1200 GSA? I just installed one in my 2010 and I am having problems. The battery doesn't doesn't seem to have enough CCAs to turn the engine over. Even after charging and riding the bike some, it still doesn't want to turn over the engine for a quick start. I had read lots of good things about these batteries. Any other bad experiences? Wes __________________ Wes Mad Scientist 2010 R1200 GSA BMW MOA BMW RA

11-18-2012, 06:54 PM	#5
DrWez ^OP Mad Scientist Joined: Jan 2009 Location: Manitowoc, WI Oddometer: 62	Mine was problematic right from the start. Would not crank over the bike until a fast charge and balance. Even then the start was not strong and after shutting off bike and letting it sit, the battery had a hard time cranking the engine. __________________ Wes Mad Scientist 2010 R1200 GSA BMW MOA BMW RA

11-19-2012, 12:13 AM	#10
_cy_ Beastly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2011 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Oddometer: 2,504	follow link in my signature if you need details why ... have posted this several times, but here goes again: for most folks, my advice is go with AGM. unless weight is totally critical. AGM has one of the main advantages of LiFePO4 which is very low self discharge. unless one has a large parasitic current drain. trickle charger will not be needed for LiFePO4 or AGM over the winter. some bikes normally have a small self discharge. for those bikes a trickle charger will be needed regardless of what type battery is used. Your lead/acid battery charger may or may not properly charge LiFePO4 batteries. if you've got a modern adventure bike and decide that it's worth $$$ to save 10 lb or so over AGM or Gel. forget the marketing hype mfg use to calculate which battery to use. use actual amp hour rating less 25%. note this is for modern Adventure bikes, which has one of the highest battery demands of any bike. example, if factory ratings is 12 amp hour x .75 = 9 amp hour actual LiFePO4 amp hour rating. some bikes that only are used in fair weather can get by with much lower LiFePO4 amp hour ratings. one advantage of LiFePO4 batteries is ability to deliver larger amps for size, while maintaining a very flat discharge cycle. learning how to start your bike with LiFePO4 in cold weather is mandatory. yes procedures are different. take mfg amp hour ratings with a bucket of salt... use real amp hour ratings to size your LiFePO4 needs. LiFePO4 batteries when sized properly are robust, super lightweight batteries. __________________ Bringing BMW R90S back to life, R80G/S, LiFePO4 testing Which is more reliable ... Points or Electronic Ignition for Airheads? _cy_ screwed with this post 11-19-2012 at 12:58 AM

11-19-2012, 03:20 PM	#12
mrdirtbikerider KTM--Rider Joined: Sep 2007 Location: Okc. Ok Oddometer: 159	Ballistic Evo2 I have been using a Ballistic Evo2 12cell in my Ktm 950 v twin, with no problems. Knock on wood __________________ "I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth." Steve McQueen 06 KTM 950 SM

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11-18-2012, 11:56 AM	#2
def I have little to say Joined: Feb 2004 Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama Oddometer: 6,302	Your lithium Ballistic battery is likely not going to start your boxer engine in winter in Manitowoc, WI. You're best off with a quality AGM battery like the Odyssey.

11-18-2012, 05:21 PM	#4
larryboy Paint it black. Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Über Alles,Ca Oddometer: 12,846	I have one on my 1150, starts it up just fine...over a year on the battery now. I do have it on a master disconnect switch with the only key off draw being the clock. It even sat for a few months and fired right up when asked.

11-18-2012, 07:42 PM	#6
larryboy Paint it black. Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Über Alles,Ca Oddometer: 12,846	Was the last battery doing the same thing? Check your grounds if so.

11-18-2012, 08:24 PM	#7
def I have little to say Joined: Feb 2004 Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama Oddometer: 6,302	Unless you get a very high Ahr rated LiFePo battery, these batteries are not really good engine start batteries. The cost benefit isn't there. In other words, the Li battery isn't ready for prime time just yet.

11-18-2012, 08:35 PM	#8
larryboy Paint it black. Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Über Alles,Ca Oddometer: 12,846	The Ballistic is designed as a starting battery and works great. Cost benefit isn't there at all, but it costs money to get rid of weight and it was pretty cheap to dump 12 pounds of fat off the big pig. Have you read about how to use this battery? It doesn't do things like normal batteries, read the FAQ at Ballistic and try it again.

11-19-2012, 04:15 PM	#13
space a.k.a. Jake Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Pasadena, CA Oddometer: 2,464	Ballistic 12 cell in my HP2E. No problem here either. Probably the cheapest way to remove weight from your bike -- short of dieting.

11-20-2012, 10:08 AM	#15
def I have little to say Joined: Feb 2004 Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama Oddometer: 6,302	Larry, I am not an expert regarding batteries, or much else, for that matter. I would recommend you read this thread. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757934 There are some folks who are experts and I bow to their knowledge. My experience with Li batteries is limited to power tools and cell phones where they work very well. I am still a fan of the Odyssey AGM battery for the boxer. I'm a steam and coal guy when it comes to generating electric power...does that tell you anything about my level of knowledge?