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Old 11-21-2012, 12:17 PM   #31
FatChance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pariahtize View Post
notice how the writer "encourages" people to vote for Obama to support and institutionalze this proposal.
As always, elections and the person you voted for have consequences...
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:25 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dmac1 View Post
Agreed, but whats your point? Clinton did it with Grand Staircase-Escalante. If you are implying it isn't a big deal, or thinking Obama won't do it, I think you are being naiive.
My point was:
  1. it's a big deal;
  2. it's likely to happen; and
  3. it's unconstitutional.
On the last score, I feel some sense of responsibility to inform like-minded people with some understanding of the broader issues so they have some footing to counteract the strategy that is being employed against them. This serves a practical purpose. It is also an oblique reminder that elections have consequences and that the rule of law which underpins our civil society is being eroded.

What's your plan? A nastygram campaign to the signatories of a letter that has already been sent? And you call me naive.

ETA: The political fallout from Obama designating a NM in the reddest state in the union is zilch; the Ds have one seat in Utah. IMO, the only way to put teeth to this effort is to make it a problem for his party in '14 and '16. The petroleum/mineral extraction lobby needs to bark and those of you with vulnerable representatives need to get involved.
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Proud Highway screwed with this post 11-21-2012 at 12:41 PM
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:52 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Narsisco Lopez View Post
Out of all of those guys, Huntsman was the most sane (must be the fact he's a moto rider).

But, the idea of an ADV letter to all the companies on that list that we can all sign is also a very good idea. Sure beats emailing all of them manually. If we have an attorney present, maybe we can get you to draft a letter. I'm a software developer and can probably crank out a webpage to collect "signatures" and then automate the sending process. After a decent number of sigs have been collected, we could shoot it off to Huntsman AND all the companies.
I am guessing that the quickest way to short circuit this travesty by the anti vehicle group would be to get Huntsman to speak clearly and eloquently (which he does) to Obama to not sign the action. We cycle riders are definitely in the minority and it will take some extra weight to make sure this lockup doesn't happen. Hey I'll bet Jon could even get Obama down for a couple of dirt bike lessons. Obama is a guy who does like fun and he is more centrist than most people give him credit for.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:29 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
Hey I'll bet Jon could even get Obama down for a couple of dirt bike lessons. Obama is a guy who does like fun and he is more centrist than most people give him credit for.
I got some singletrack to show 'em
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:43 PM   #35
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I got some singletrack to show 'em
Chris...I'd pay big money to see that video of him out there.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:14 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Narsisco Lopez View Post
Whether or not you believe PODUS has the authority is beside the point. The point is PODUS CAN use the Antiquities Act to do so. Let's focus on getting voices of opposition heard.
PODUS?

President Of 'Da United States?

POTUS

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Old 11-21-2012, 05:03 PM   #37
Narsisco Lopez
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Originally Posted by Geek View Post
PODUS?

President Of 'Da United States?

POTUS

Oops... must have been that Mai Tai I was sipping while typing that.

BTW... here's a response from Patagonia to an email I sent...


On 11/21/2012 3:09 PM, CUSTOMER_SERVICE wrote:

Dear David,

Thank you very much for getting in touch about something you and we care about. We hope you'll reconsider your decision to stop buying from us, but our position on national monuments and wilderness remains what it has been for forty years.

We think that some lands need to be set aside and the human impact on them should be light in order to give the land a rest, and the animals and plants on it a place to live.

Sincerely,

Patagonia
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narsisco Lopez View Post
Oops... must have been that Mai Tai I was sipping while typing that.

BTW... here's a response from Patagonia to an email I sent...


On 11/21/2012 3:09 PM, CUSTOMER_SERVICE wrote:

Dear David,

Thank you very much for getting in touch about something you and we care about. We hope you'll reconsider your decision to stop buying from us, but our position on national monuments and wilderness remains what it has been for forty years.

We think that some lands need to be set aside and the human impact on them should be light in order to give the land a rest, and the animals and plants on it a place to live.

Sincerely,

Patagonia
Screw them. How much wilderness is enough? I bought my brother a nice patagonia sweater for x-mas. I'm taking it back and telling the store why.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:17 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narsisco Lopez View Post
Oops... must have been that Mai Tai I was sipping while typing that.

BTW... here's a response from Patagonia to an email I sent...


On 11/21/2012 3:09 PM, CUSTOMER_SERVICE wrote:

Dear David,

Thank you very much for getting in touch about something you and we care about. We hope you'll reconsider your decision to stop buying from us, but our position on national monuments and wilderness remains what it has been for forty years.

We think that some lands need to be set aside and the human impact on them should be light in order to give the land a rest, and the animals and plants on it a place to live.

Sincerely,

Patagonia

Yeah, that makes sense. . . . I suppose that's why they support expeditions into pristine environments. Those mountaineers and rock climbers, and "trekkers" (et al) never leave piles of trash (and shit) behind. . . never place bolts into rocks. . . never create new trails. . . never use vehicles and burn fossil fuels. . . never promote/propose that their customers follow suit and "explore". . . never support exhibitionistic people who unlawfully disregard laws put in place to protect the environment (ex: no climbing on the arches within Arches NP). . . never make profits from "destructive recreation". . . never get involved with bias politics (oops!). . . .

Hey, at least they aren't hypocrites!
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:17 PM   #40
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So I think if nothing else we should show the retailers we are listening, and maybe a few will pull out.

As I talked about earlier, I set up a petition and I think for it to have any weight it should have 1000 signatures pledging to boycott all the listed retailers. Once we get 1000 I will forward all the signatures and comments to each retailer with a letter explaining what the National Monument Designation really means and how many of their customers do not support this (if someone else wants to write the letter feel free).

Here is the link to the petition

I am working on getting some face book buttons added, but post it to what ever social media site you can. This would be a huge loss, I cannot imagine loosing that much area in one swipe of the pen just because a letter is sent to the president.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:27 PM   #41
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Here is an accurate description of what they are trying to do overall:
http://www.sierraclub.org/habitat/do...anyonlands.pdf
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:31 PM   #42
Gordy
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Not letting me sign the petition. I've tried two e-mails.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:44 PM   #43
COXR650L
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Not letting me sign the petition. I've tried two e-mails.
What did it say was there an error? Is anyone else not able to sign it?

Should I just make the email optional or is that adding some authenticity to the petition????
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:21 PM   #44
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petition

Seemed to work for me. Just signed. Is there some way to get this issue and our attempts to fight it out to the other regional forums? Seems a lot of people from all over use this area at one time or another. At least it will make them aware that this crap could be in their back yard some day soon. Then they may be needing our help.

Fred Garvin screwed with this post 11-21-2012 at 08:27 PM
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:38 PM   #45
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Seemed to work for me. Just signed. Is there some way to get this issue and our attempts to fight it out to the other regional forums? Seems a lot of people from all over use this area at one time or another. At least it will make them aware that this crap could be in their back yard some day soon. Then they may be needing our help.
Yes, many of us from other states frequently go to this area that is under threat. I'm even a COHVCO member due to CO riding trips. These people pushing these agendas are never satisfied, so it seems. I added my name to the petition.
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