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Old 10-28-2012, 04:27 PM   #1
River Pilot OP
"Razor Six"
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Oddometer: 62
River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

A Central Location For Discussions, News And Offers For Tour And Adventure Travel

River Pilot features worldwide guided and self drive tours as well as access to quality rentals of street or pre-configured dual purpose motorcycles in most countries. This forum provides adventure riders with support, advice and resources. Ask a question here, send us an e-mail or call for personal service.


Assistance with:
  • Guided or self drive tours - Unique content specialists in U.S.A. - Short term, regional or endurance events
  • Quality street bike rentals within U.S.A. and internationally
  • Quality pre-configured, purpose driven, dual sport rentals. Short and long term available
  • Pre-planning, execution, manpower, permits, logistics for guided and self drive tours within U.S.A. **International support available
  • U.S.A. - Long term adventure motorcycle access - "Buy Back" program
  • Wholesale priced "Pass Through" auto rentals - Worldwide access - All major operators
  • Scouting and reconnoiter contract evolutions - Tour Guide training, Support Team training, H.R.
  • Authorized Garmin™ GPS dealer, rental and configuration consulting - GPS pre-configuring and map routing
  • Official B.M.W. Off Road Training Academy scheduling and pricing - Multiple locations
  • Route 66 specialists
  • Horse and Ranch Adventures - Long Distance Horse Riding support and consulting
  • Receptive Tour Operator
River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:16 PM   #2
River Pilot OP
"Razor Six"
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Oddometer: 62
River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

River Pilot - GPS Ready Room


A Central Location For GPS Products, GPS Satellite Tracking, Navigation Techniques, Software And Configuration.

River Pilot Tours operates guided and self drive tours both in the U.S.A and internationally. During the course of business we have evaluated and used most models of mainstream GPS'. In order to overcome routine GPS configuration limitations we became GPS developers and partnered with Authorized Garmin software developers. Our partners develop for both Garmin and Tom Tom platforms while retaining working relationships with underlying map providers Navteq and Teleatlas.

Vision
New categories of software, hardware and advanced navigation capabilities are becoming available at a rapid pace. Along with these exciting new technologies comes a learning curve of how to integrate these tools into our day-to-day and extended riding adventures. Here, we intend to create a forum to help simplify the use of these tools and provide tested, documented and solid advice for the average to expert user.

Standards
In order to provide a consistent platform for discussion, avoid repetitious questions and serve the greater community, the following items should be reviewed, reflected on and addressed prior to starting a question. These helpful hints will ensure that the basics are covered and may just answer or solve a dilemma. They are as follows:


Maps / O.S.
  • GPS' have operating systems just like a computer. Ensure you plug your GPS into your P.C. and download the latest O.S. service pack. Check quarterly at minimum or before a lengthy ride.
  • At a minimum, update your maps annually. According to Teleatlas, "Research shows that roads change significantly every year – by as much as 15%. In high growth areas, road networks can change as much as 40% per year. There is also inevitably some human error/subjectivity in the creation of a digital map. All of which means that maps must be constantly maintained to keep the level of map errors as low as possible."
  • Always ensure lifetime map updates are obtained for every device owned regardless of manufacturer. It's cost effective and important. Use Garmin Lifetime Map Updater to keep your Garmin GPS maps up to date. Use the corresponding Tom Tom map updater here.
  • Purchase screen protectors for all devices.
  • Report map errors to vendors. Garmin uses Navteq to provide maps. Tom Tom uses Teleatlas. To report Navteq map errors use Navteq Map Reporter and to report Teleatlas map errors use Teleatlas Map Insight.
Map Planning
  • Basecamp is Garmin's official trip planning software. Mapsource is officially discontinued but still works as a fast and lean tool. Both can create and export in the .GPX format which will work in any worthy GPS. There is no need for other software. However, for various situations and modification there are a few tools that can be used to create a final product such as GPS Babel, WinGDP3, GPS Visualizer and Expert GPS.
  • Garmin Birds Eye Satellite Imagery is a great tool. However, it is currently very difficult to have more than small regional maps on a device. Major excursions across multiple time zones or countries would require more Birds Eye Satellite Imagery than can be reasonably loaded onto a device. Best used for targeted rides or hiking.
  • Use Google Earth to confirm your route or track if you like by exporting it direct from Basecamp or Mapsource. In general, the Google Earth datum is highly accurate and will match exact field locations.
  • Do not use Google Earth, Open Street Map or other free online programs/websites to create your finished master file. WHY? Garmin, Tom Tom and most GPS manufacturers use either Navteq or Teleatlas as the underlying map providers. These vendors continuously verify their data through "real world" data capture. Other maps, programs, websites and sources may use data from unverified reports or "crowd" sourcing. This means that while a "road" may be shown, and is actually there on these other sources, if it isn't on the GPS map on your device, the GPS can't route to it. There are two exceptions. If you are using tracks only, then these other sources may be used. Or, if you have created a "custom map" and send it over to the device, use the same source to create your routes and tracks.
  • You can load and use a routable TOPO map and City Navigator on Garmin Montana 6xx devices. At this time 24K Topos are routable, 100k Topos are not. Check the map specifications on the manufacturers website for each region and country to ensure routing tables. By changing a profile, you can change from "street" to "dirt" with just a few clicks. Zumo 6xx GPS' can also perform this task but require more clicks to "enable" and "disable" the two maps so they don't clash for precedence during actual routing.
  • Garmin Montana series GPS' have different profiles built in. Each one can be used as shipped or a custom profile can be created. The device is "smart" and automatically changes settings based on what cradle or usage mode the device is in. This explains many causes of why the device performs differently when moved from one vehicle to another.
  • Ensure the Activity Profile settings in Garmin Basecamp or Mapsource match the Activity Profile settings on the GPS device to ensure WYSIWYG when the device is disconnected. Remember, once the device is removed from the P.C., the devices resident settings are used regardless of what settings were on the P.C. during the planning phase. Activity Profile settings are not sent over to the device upon synchronization.
  • There are no easy paths or shortcuts to create a quality map. Learn the above mentioned map creation programs thoroughly. You will be rewarded with reliable and detailed results. It's a skill like anything else.
  • In general, users can ride anywhere in the world, on any terrain, in any conditions with just a GPS track. Experienced users can become accustomed to riding a track with the same acuity as a route.
PND Recommendations
  • All things being equal, costs as no factor, regardless of manufacturer, the Garmin Zumo 66x or Garmin Montana 6xx are the only devices that are sophisticated, rugged and engineered with enough software flexibility to be the core devices for all motorcycle evolutions. Zumo 220 is acceptable for entry level costs. Garmin GPSMap 6x units are acceptable. Garmin Oregon 4xx-5xx units are acceptable. All these units have smallish screens. The Zumo 350LM does not support the same robust features, software, A2DP and track manipulation at this time and cannot be recommended. Summary - If one rides more street that dirt, buy the Zumo 66x. If more dirt is encountered, use the Garmin Montana 6xx. If only one device will be purchased, the choice should be the Garmin Zumo 66x. BMW and Harley use these platforms for a reason as they support street or dirt riders while offering worldwide mapping.
  • BMW Navigator and Harley Road Tech™ GPS are OEM, customized Garmin Zumo 66x devices.
Satellite Tracking
  • The Spot Satellite GPS Messenger works in most "real world" conditions, regions and countries worldwide.
  • ACR EPIRBS are sophisticated and rugged devices with advanced worldwide SAR capabilities that in some circumstances make it a superior satellite tracker/emergency device.
Miscellaneous
  • Garmin GPS devices generally have "undocumented" developer screens that allow for GPS testing. Each device varies as where to touch to access this screen. They aren't always well documented or known and will not be revealed by Garmin. Testing and trial are the only way to find these screens. Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) needs to be changed on newer devices in order to get them to be discovered by Mapsource.
  • Until "smartphone" hardware devices are created for industrial/commercial/outdoor use, have constellation coverage without roaming costs, provide mission critical results and mirror trusted capabilities of current and future GPS, they are not viable as replacements for today's dedicated GPS. Expected cross platform mirroring is in the 2015-2016 time frame.
  • GPS Block IIIA or GPS III is the next-generation of GPS satellites. The first satellite in the series are projected to launch in 2014. Implementation will provide C/A code to ensure backward compatibility. Expect advanced capabilities.
We look forward to hearing from other riders and helping you to become confident and skillful with your GPS. Watch this thread for various ADV Rider discounts and promotions. If you want to learn more or purchase a Garmin GPS, visit the River Pilot Store or contact us for personal service.


River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:20 PM   #3
River Pilot OP
"Razor Six"
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Oddometer: 62
River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

Oregon BackCountry Discovery Route (ORBDR) - Summary

Fellow Pilots,

November 1, 2012 Cheyenne, WY.River Pilot Tours has completed scouting and verification of the Oregon BackCountry Discovery Route. The route was ridden in October 2012 with the intent of capturing accurate GPS tracks, verifying the route and capturing various data points for client and internal use. The route(s) scouted were based upon commercially available maps from the Oregon Off Highway Vehicle Association (OOHVA). We maintained parity with the printed maps in order to provide consistent delivery of the official route, content and resources. The significant outcomes of this scouting trip were:


ü Official OOHVA maps were used to record tracks used during the course of the scouting evolution. This allows for future distributed data to remain consistent with official maps.
ü We estimate that approximately 98% of the OOHVA maps are accurate to real world roads. All inaccuracies were reported to OOHVA for updating in future map revisions.
ü Organic and natural changes are natural in backcountry areas over time. River Pilot Tours documented these changes, created close road workarounds and updated this information. Change recommendations reported to OOHVA.
ü Track and Route accuracy is now up to date, thorough and reliable. Standard River Pilot “best practices” data capture methods were used similar to our other commercially available GPS products. Our final product can be supplied to any user with complete confidence of successful outcome.
ü With commercial use in mind, all related POI’s were located, verified and placed within a GPX/GPS product. We located fuel, lodging, camping, attractions, hospitals, closures and alternates.
ü Suggested segments of fun and significance: Route 3>Route4>Section 3>Section 4 all ridden in succession. Total distance 1,040 miles. 7 full days of riding averaging 165 miles per day, 30 mph, 6.5 hours or seat time per day, 10 hours per day average out in field.
ü Satellite tracking with Spot Satellite Messenger worked as configured through the entire evolution. No significant signal loss.
ü Suggested motorcycle(s): KTM 690, BMW G650GS Sertao, BMW 800GS, Triumph Tiger 800XC, Suzuki DR650SE, Honda XR 650L, Kawasaki KLR650, Husqvarna TE 511, Husqvarna TR650
ü Suggested GPS: Garmin Zumo 66x with CNNT 2013.2 or greater, Garmin Montana 650t with CNNT 2013.2 or greater.
ü Suggested Travel Dates: Late June - Third Week Of September. (western Cascade sections may have snow in early June, hunting season begins in late September).


Summary
The ORBDR is complete and can be ridden easily by most riders. Difficulty rating is 5 (out of 10). There are no significant hurdles, problems or emergency concerns when standard best practices are implemented. Food, fuel and lodging are readily available for even the most modest motorcycle. The views and riding are spectacular and rewarding. Pick a segment and have some fun.


River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:20 PM   #4
River Pilot OP
"Razor Six"
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Oddometer: 62
River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

River Pilot - GPS Ready Room

A Central Location For GPS Products, GPS Satellite Tracking, Navigation Techniques, Software And Configuration.

Special Pricing Alert - December 2012

Garmin Montana 650T

River Pilot is an authorized Garmin Dealer. In order to help our fellow riders get just what they want for the holidays, we have obtained aggressive pricing on our outdoor units and are currently offering the Garmin Montana 650T for $558 USD. And during the month of December 2012, we are offering FREE USPS Priority Flat Rate shipping to members of the ADV Rider Forum.

Just purchase the device and during the checkout process, let us know your ADV Rider username. We'll ship out the device free of charge. (Free shipping offer good in the continental U.S. only).

Don't miss out on this holiday special and get ready to ride with confidence with your new Garmin Montana 650T. You'll even have enough money left over to customize your GPS with additional maps and accessories.

Visit our store today


River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:23 PM   #5
River Pilot OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Oddometer: 62
River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

Dirt 66 Tour

A Central Location For Discussions, News And Offers For Tour And Adventure Travel

River Pilot features worldwide guided and self drive tours as well as access to quality rentals of street or pre-configured dual purpose motorcycles in most countries. This forum provides adventure riders with support, advice and resources. Ask a question here, send us an e-mail or call for personal service.

November 29, 2012 Cheyenne, WY.River Pilot Tours offers the opportunity to ride Dirt 66 from Chicago, IL. to Santa Monica, CA.

Everyone has a wish list of roads and trips they have to take at some point in their lives. Route 66 is somewhere on that list for most people. If you're going to drive Route 66 then you need to do it with River Pilot. Most tours are hurried and only allow for two weeks of travel while visiting towns and cities that aren't part of the Route 66 experience. River Pilot has perfected the tour and lengthened it by two days. We stay on the road and see all of it. We have paced this tour to allow enough time to meet all of the interesting characters and see the attractions you have waited all this time to see. This is the tour all of the guides and experts wanted. We now bring it to you.

Dirt 66 Difference - The Dirt 66 Tour is the extended "play" version of our core Route 66 Tour. We focus more on the dirt sections and little known segments while still visiting all of the famous attractions on Route 66. This tour is usually reserved by Route 66 enthusiasts doing deep exploration or by cartographers who are updating Route 66 maps. We've had many requests from folks about seeing the lesser known version of Route 66 so we created this tour for them. It's also fun to get on a Dual Purpose bike or off road vehicle and travel the old gravel roads. We are the only company that offers this guided tour in the world. This is one of our most sought after tours so make sure to book early.

ADV Riders - River Pilot Tours offers dual sport rentals specifically configured to handle this one of a kind tour or you can bring your own bike. Click here to learn more about the Dirt 66 Tour.

Route 66 GPS Attractions Guide with Ready2Go Tours - River Pilot invented commercial software designed to keep folks on Route 66. The software is certified for Garmin Zumo models as well as Harley Navigator and BMW Navigator IV. Click here to learn more or dowload the software.

River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com


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Old 11-30-2012, 06:59 AM   #6
Happycamper
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Thumb Rt 66 Tour

Great idea. I did as much old dirt, bypassed segments as possible in 2009. Some really cool stuff to see if you get a little off the later alignments.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:15 PM   #7
River Pilot OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Oddometer: 62
River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happycamper View Post
Great idea. I did as much old dirt, bypassed segments as possible in 2009. Some really cool stuff to see if you get a little off the later alignments.

Hello Happycamper,

Thank you. We agree. Route 66 is a fun ride and Dirt 66 is the natural evolution for a second run. There are "hidden" places that most folks don't see on a core Route 66 tour and Dirt 66 visits them. It's delightful to take time and imagine what it was like to navigate the old road years ago. Glad to see you explored some of these on your ride. We look forward to seeing you out in the field on some of these older alignments someday.

River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:08 AM   #8
SeeRace
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Location: Kennesaw, Ga
Oddometer: 191
Zumo vs Montana

River Pilot,
I am getting ready to purchase a new GPS unit. How would you rate the screen brightness between the Zumo 66x and Montana? I have heard complaints about the Zumo in sunlight.

Thanks,
Dave
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:39 PM   #9
River Pilot OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
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River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeRace View Post
River Pilot,
I am getting ready to purchase a new GPS unit. How would you rate the screen brightness between the Zumo 66x and Montana? I have heard complaints about the Zumo in sunlight.

Thanks,
Dave
Hello SeeRace (Dave),

Yes, we do have some insight on the Garmin Zumo vs. Montana screen brightness,

We own and use both the Garmin Zumo 660LM and Montana 650t PND's. Both are used on street and dirt and we have found them to be the best in their respective categories.

We have a fleet of Garmin Zumo 660LM's and our clients use them on a monthly basis. As of date, we haven't had an issues or complaints about screen brightness on them. We have heard the feedback over the years and haven't experienced any issues ourselves.

Regarding the actual screen brighntess, its very close. I would say the Montana 6xx series may be 5% brighter overall when turned all the way up. When both units are at maximum brightness, they are very readable.

If you choose to, you could purchase a sunshade for the Zumo 66x series from here and that will eliminate any glare. We have seen these on devices and they work fine. I believe they aren't necessarily needed but they are helpful.

The Montana does have an OEM screen protector (Part # 010-11654-05) that cuts down glare and adds protection but it does reduce brightness by about 10%. Well worth the tradeoff in my opinion. You can also purchase a Zagg screen protector designed for a Garmin Zumo 66x series and trim it to fit.

Both devices are excellent and if you were to use the Montana on the street, the corresponding CNNT maps and motorcycle mounts will need to be purchased. Finally, something of note, the Montana doesn't have Bluetooth. When all is said and done, their final acquisition costs will be similar.

In either direction, you will be happy and have a quality device for street or dirt use.

If you need further information, get a projected cost for all of the items you want to add or would like to purchase the unit, feel free to call or e-mail. We are an authorized Garmin dealer.


River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:58 PM   #10
acesandeights
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I was just talking with the owner of the Historic Prospect Hotel about connecting with adv riders. Good to see such a nice place listed as one of your stops along the way on the OBCDR.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:37 PM   #11
River Pilot OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I was just talking with the owner of the Historic Prospect Hotel about connecting with adv riders. Good to see such a nice place listed as one of your stops along the way on the OBCDR.
Hello acesandeights,

Thank you. We agree. Had a similar conversation with them about a month ago. Great minds...They operate a cool property and are very active in the community. Southern Oregon is a wonderful place to live in, visit and ride and staying at a nice place like the Historic Prospect Hotel is a good way to end a day of riding. With the waterfalls, river and other attractions right around the hotel, it's a natural. Being right on the corner of the ORBDR is a big plus too. Hope to see you there and on the trail.

River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #12
acesandeights
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While I was talking to him he mentioned you'd come out. I'm sure I'll see you (and your tour group) next year when you're out this way. It's a great area to have a tour. Best of luck!
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:57 PM   #13
River Pilot OP
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Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Oddometer: 62
River Pilot - GPS Ready Room

A Central Location For GPS Products, GPS Satellite Tracking, Navigation Techniques, Software And Configuration.

Focus Topic - Intended Use of Garmin City Navigator (CNNT) and Garmin Topo

Background
Garmin offers a plethora of GPS devices which can be used in a multitude of disciplines and environments. The motorcycle community has adopted devices such as the Garmin Zumo, Montana, Oregon and Csx for their motorcycle needs. Each of these devices was envisioned and developed by Garmin to be used as a primary device in the motorcycling, hiking and adventure community. The Garmin Zumo is the only model that was specifically created for motorcycle users. Over time, riders have found that some devices can be used for multiple uses and begin to customize their GPS in order to have one device do everything they need.

While this theory sometimes works in practice and provides options to have one device "do everything", since the devices aren't conceived, developed and sold to be used completely cross functional, inherent limitations are exposed once the technological boundaries are reached. The same can be said for maps provided or distributed by Garmin.

Core Topic
Intended Use of Garmin City Navigator (CNNT) and Garmin Topo

Garmin City Navigator CNNT is deployed four (4) times a year on average. Three of the deployments have minor road changes and POI updates. Typically, the fourth release CNNT XXXX.3 is the one that includes major road updates. This is all subject to change and contingent upon when the map Dbase is delivered by Navteq and other map creators to users such as Garmin but, it has been consistent in the past.

Garmin Topo is updated and delivered approximately every four years. The reason it takes so long for a new release is that its core function is to display topographic information and that changes relatively very little over time.

Garmin is distinctly aware of these two products differences and has conceived, created and deployed these products with specific end uses in mind. The same can be said for their aviation and ocean/waterway mapping products.

The Problem
The greater off road and motorcycling community has begun to use both Topo and CNNT as primary maps for navigation without either understanding or accepting the differences between the two products and how they are positioned.

City Navigator is intended to be used anywhere there are roads. Whether its off road or on, the product usually lists any road from minor single track dirt trail, fire road, county road, private property road all the way up to interstate freeways. At some point, off road riders assumed that since the product is named City Navigator it must be intended to be used mainly on civilian and common used roads. That would be a mistake. The product is placed, updated and positioned to be routable, have the latest updates quarterly and be used by most street or road oriented Garmins. The actual product of choice for off road motorcycle riding or adventure riding would be City Navigator regardless of what country its created for. According to Garmin, "City Navigator NT gives you everything you need to travel on the road."They go on to add, " Includes MapSource® software for Windows® to transfer waypoints, routes and tracks between your computer and your device". If one is to thoroughly understand and accept this premise for on and off road adventuring, then they would choose CNNT in all but the most odd or extreme situations when driving or riding off road. In most situations, Garmin Topo isn't necessary and in some cases is not recommended to be used by the off road community. The off road community has erroneously assumed that the Garmin Topo product MUST have better detail for off road adventuring. That would be incorrect. Garmin City Navigator is the product of choice when riding on roads.

Garmin Topo - According to Garmin, "The TOPO map series provides detailed topography including terrain contours, elevations, geographical points— even 3-D terrain shading on compatible devices. While Topo does include information on, "interstates, state highways, local roads and trails" it is intended to use those roads to get one around to the general areas and not be completely updated and routable as Garmin City Navigator. When talking about trails, Garmin envisions walking trails, bike trails and hiking trails. The off road community has misinterpreted this to be automobile or motorcycle trails. The Topo product shines at showing elevations, features and natural characteristics. We encourage users to confirm for themselves. When speaking to Garmin technical folks, ask about using Topo in your car or motorcycle as the primary product to get around country roads with and you might hear a long silence and head scratching. They will listen and eventually suggest CNNT and correctly position Topo and its intended use.

Clarification Items from Garmin
Garmin has been receiving questions regarding these uses and as of September 7, 2012 has posted clarification items on their support site. A few examples are:

1. Does my Zumo support TOPO Mapping? Answer: "While the zumo devices are compatible with TOPO mapping products, they were not designed for optimized use together. For this reason, the zumo may not display as much TOPO detail as an outdoor device would. However, if you would like to load TOPO mapping to the device, follow the instructions below." They then go on to explain configuration optimization. As one can see, they do mention out door devices. As mentioned earlier, since outdoor folks use Montana, Oregon and Csx devices, the natural instinct to use Topo on non motorcycle oriented devices blurs its intended use.

2. What limitations will I encounter when using Topo, Marine, US TrailMaps, or Rails-to-Trails mapping with my nuvi, LIVE, zumo, dezl, or StreetPilot? Answer: "When purchasing Topo, Marine, US TrailMaps, or Rails-to-Trails mapping for your nuvi, LIVE, zumo, dezl, or StreetPilot, please be aware that this mapping may function with limited compatibility when viewing the map on the device. Topo mapping will provide access to very basic information such as terrain contours, elevation information, trails, and rivers. There are certain elements of these mapping products that were designed for use on dedicated Outdoor and Marine GPS products that will not be displayed on a nuvi, LIVE, zumo, dezl, or StreetPilot device. If you would like to use these mapping products and experience the highest level of detail and functionality, it is recommended that they be used on a dedicated Outdoor or Marine GPS product. In addition, when viewing this mapping on your device, please ensure that you have disabled your City Navigator mapping and changed your Map View from the default 3D view to either Track Up or North Up"

Summary
Off road vehicle enthusiasts should anticipate and expect that when riding in or on a motor vehicle, their best choice will be City Navigator (CNNT). In circumstances when an off roader is hiking or needs elevations or geographic information, Garmin Topo would be a good choice on outdoor units only. This goes a long way to illustrate the differences between the products and why they show different shading, road details and points of interest. For international riders or events, these concepts can be used to start from and then researched to a specific product for the task.

River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:46 PM   #14
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River Pilot Tours - Official Pilot Briefing Room

Trans America Trail Tour (TAT)

December 13, 2012 Cheyenne, WY. – River Pilot Tours continues our partnership with the Trans Am Trail in 2013 by offering a guided tour of the Trans Am Trail (Mountain). This seven (7) day tour is scheduled to depart July, 2013 from Trinidad, Colorado.

We are pleased to announce that Sam Correro will be guiding the tour himself.

Book soon to join this opportunity. Guide and motel rooms are included in the $1,499 USD price. More tour details can be viewed at the TAT Tour information page.



River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com

River Pilot screwed with this post 01-13-2013 at 01:39 PM
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:02 AM   #15
everycredit
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Originally Posted by River Pilot View Post
River Pilot - GPS Ready Room

A Central Location For GPS Products, GPS Satellite Tracking, Navigation Techniques, Software And Configuration.

Focus Topic - Intended Use of Garmin City Navigator (CNNT) and Garmin Topo

Background
Garmin offers a plethora of GPS devices which can be used in a multitude of disciplines and environments. The motorcycle community has adopted devices such as the Garmin Zumo, Montana, Oregon and Csx for their motorcycle needs. Each of these devices was envisioned and developed by Garmin to be used as a primary device in the motorcycling, hiking and adventure community. The Garmin Zumo is the only model that was specifically created for motorcycle users. Over time, riders have found that some devices can be used for multiple uses and begin to customize their GPS in order to have one device do everything they need.

While this theory sometimes works in practice and provides options to have one device "do everything", since the devices aren't conceived, developed and sold to be used completely cross functional, inherent limitations are exposed once the technological boundaries are reached. The same can be said for maps provided or distributed by Garmin.

Core Topic
Intended Use of Garmin City Navigator (CNNT) and Garmin Topo

Garmin City Navigator CNNT is deployed four (4) times a year on average. Three of the deployments have minor road changes and POI updates. Typically, the fourth release CNNT XXXX.3 is the one that includes major road updates. This is all subject to change and contingent upon when the map Dbase is delivered by Navteq and other map creators to users such as Garmin but, it has been consistent in the past.

Garmin Topo is updated and delivered approximately every four years. The reason it takes so long for a new release is that its core function is to display topographic information and that changes relatively very little over time.

Garmin is distinctly aware of these two products differences and has conceived, created and deployed these products with specific end uses in mind. The same can be said for their aviation and ocean/waterway mapping products.

The Problem
The greater off road and motorcycling community has begun to use both Topo and CNNT as primary maps for navigation without either understanding or accepting the differences between the two products and how they are positioned.

City Navigator is intended to be used anywhere there are roads. Whether its off road or on, the product usually lists any road from minor single track dirt trail, fire road, county road, private property road all the way up to interstate freeways. At some point, off road riders assumed that since the product is named City Navigator it must be intended to be used mainly on civilian and common used roads. That would be a mistake. The product is placed, updated and positioned to be routable, have the latest updates quarterly and be used by most street or road oriented Garmins. The actual product of choice for off road motorcycle riding or adventure riding would be City Navigator regardless of what country its created for. According to Garmin, "City Navigator NT gives you everything you need to travel on the road."They go on to add, " Includes MapSource® software for Windows® to transfer waypoints, routes and tracks between your computer and your device". If one is to thoroughly understand and accept this premise for on and off road adventuring, then they would choose CNNT in all but the most odd or extreme situations when driving or riding off road. In most situations, Garmin Topo isn't necessary and in some cases is not recommended to be used by the off road community. The off road community has erroneously assumed that the Garmin Topo product MUST have better detail for off road adventuring. That would be incorrect. Garmin City Navigator is the product of choice when riding on roads.

Garmin Topo - According to Garmin, "The TOPO map series provides detailed topography including terrain contours, elevations, geographical points— even 3-D terrain shading on compatible devices. While Topo does include information on, "interstates, state highways, local roads and trails" it is intended to use those roads to get one around to the general areas and not be completely updated and routable as Garmin City Navigator. When talking about trails, Garmin envisions walking trails, bike trails and hiking trails. The off road community has misinterpreted this to be automobile or motorcycle trails. The Topo product shines at showing elevations, features and natural characteristics. We encourage users to confirm for themselves. When speaking to Garmin technical folks, ask about using Topo in your car or motorcycle as the primary product to get around country roads with and you might hear a long silence and head scratching. They will listen and eventually suggest CNNT and correctly position Topo and its intended use.

Clarification Items from Garmin
Garmin has been receiving questions regarding these uses and as of September 7, 2012 has posted clarification items on their support site. A few examples are:

1. Does my Zumo support TOPO Mapping? Answer: "While the zumo devices are compatible with TOPO mapping products, they were not designed for optimized use together. For this reason, the zumo may not display as much TOPO detail as an outdoor device would. However, if you would like to load TOPO mapping to the device, follow the instructions below." They then go on to explain configuration optimization. As one can see, they do mention out door devices. As mentioned earlier, since outdoor folks use Montana, Oregon and Csx devices, the natural instinct to use Topo on non motorcycle oriented devices blurs its intended use.

2. What limitations will I encounter when using Topo, Marine, US TrailMaps, or Rails-to-Trails mapping with my nuvi, LIVE, zumo, dezl, or StreetPilot? Answer: "When purchasing Topo, Marine, US TrailMaps, or Rails-to-Trails mapping for your nuvi, LIVE, zumo, dezl, or StreetPilot, please be aware that this mapping may function with limited compatibility when viewing the map on the device. Topo mapping will provide access to very basic information such as terrain contours, elevation information, trails, and rivers. There are certain elements of these mapping products that were designed for use on dedicated Outdoor and Marine GPS products that will not be displayed on a nuvi, LIVE, zumo, dezl, or StreetPilot device. If you would like to use these mapping products and experience the highest level of detail and functionality, it is recommended that they be used on a dedicated Outdoor or Marine GPS product. In addition, when viewing this mapping on your device, please ensure that you have disabled your City Navigator mapping and changed your Map View from the default 3D view to either Track Up or North Up"

Summary
Off road vehicle enthusiasts should anticipate and expect that when riding in or on a motor vehicle, their best choice will be City Navigator (CNNT). In circumstances when an off roader is hiking or needs elevations or geographic information, Garmin Topo would be a good choice on outdoor units only. This goes a long way to illustrate the differences between the products and why they show different shading, road details and points of interest. For international riders or events, these concepts can be used to start from and then researched to a specific product for the task.

River Pilot Tours
Cheyenne, WY. U.S.A.
PH: (01) 307-222-6347
E: tours@riverspilot.com
Web: www.riverspilot.com
Store: http://www.riverspilot.com/Store
GPS Software Titles: http://shop.spotitout.com
Thank you for that. This will really aid in my decision between a Zumo and Montana.
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