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Old 11-22-2012, 07:27 PM   #121
HapHazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymply View Post
The '99 and early '00 model Twin Cams had a ball bearing in the cam plate for the rear cam. My understanding is that the problem was the ball bearing failing due to the side loading of the chain cam drive system. HD changed the ball bearing to a roller bearing and the problem was solved. In the video link posted by JerryH, the cam plate is the (I believe) '07 and later design that uses parent-bearing material instead of outer cam bearings. That may be confusing.
After watching the video,I spent some quality time with the shop manual. I think I'll take a look at the tensioners, at least.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:19 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
So I am dropping out of this thread because I plan on staying around for a while. And after seeing how badly Harleys are made, there is a good chance I will never own one anyway, and if I do, it sure wont be a TC, the original topic of this thread.
Please be a man of your word!

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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
And after seeing how badly Harleys are made, there is a good chance I will never own one anyway, and if I do, it sure wont be a TC, the original topic of this thread.
Even though you are an ignorant fool on this matter.

Hope you had a Great Give Thanks Day.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:34 AM   #123
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Wow..that's the great thing about a Harley thread, it brings out the extreme hate from the keyboard tough guys. I mean for the love of God
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:17 AM   #124
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If you outsource your machine work you're not building,just assembling.
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:08 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Most motorcycle cranks are of the "pressed together" type, which must be welded to hold together. It also means the bearings are not replaceable. The entire crank assembly, including the crank, bearings, and rods must be replaced as a unit. So it is impossible to be sure the clearances are correct from the factory.
While I'm relatively sure that some are welded I know for a fact that many are not. One of the services that my business offers is the rebuilding of "pressed together" crank assemblies.
A properly fitted, assembled and aligned crankshaft assembly should hold it's alignment with no problem and without welding.
I'm amazed at some of the run out figures that I'm seeing on this thread, we won't send a crank out unless it is true to .0002 (2 tenths of a thousandth) per end for a total runout of less than a half thousanth. This is in a racing application.
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:24 PM   #126
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They're alive and well in CT. All over the place. Can't throw a rock without hittin' one.
please no rock tossing lmfao!! 98 fxdl here.......
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:18 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
If you outsource your machine work you're not building,just assembling.
Said Jesse James to Paul Jr.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:06 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by ikonoklass View Post
Said Jesse James to Paul Jr.

Indeed. I've worked on both of their bikes. And James' bikes were superior. Although the wiring on the R1 was like he'd been up all night and was in a hurry.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:42 AM   #129
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The easiest way to tell if you are having an issue with the tensioner shoe, is to cut the oil filter open after an oil change. If you see bits of nylon within the filter media, replace the shoe. It takes about an hour. (unless you still have stock pipes, lol) I have seen many twinkys go 85k+ without any issue. and I have seen a few go as early as 17k. I almost have to figure its how it's ridden that determines the longevity.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:27 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
"Production" refers to production rebuilding, as you might find in a more local shop. I didn't think it would be necessary to clarify that for someone as experienced as you allegedly are.

As for the questions and discussions you skirted:

The replacement for plastigage is a nothing more than a decent set of mics. It doesn't take a fortune in equipment to measure bearing oil clearance in an engine while avoiding the potential heat dam across a bearing that can be caused by plastigage-induced bearing material compression.

Furthermore, the reason you can't put a side by side connecting rod arrangement in a Harley is because the cylinders aren't offset enough to accommodate such an arrangement.

I agree you should bow out of the thread. Not for fear of a banning, but instead because its painful to watch you do this to yourself

Ok, so I don't build engines, I "assemble" them. I never said I had a factory or a million dollar machine shop. I have never had a problem with plasticgage, and as far as measuring bearing clearances, using mics would not likely be any more accurate, though I do have them. Plastigage can show up very minor differences in the clearances, you just have to be patient and methodical.

As for side by side connecting rods on a Harley, yes it would require offsetting the cylinders, but the Japanese have been doing that since Yamaha built the first Virago back in 1981. And by using offset crankpins, Harley COULD correct the primary imbalance of their engines, making them run very smoothly. This would also make them last a lot longer. But nobody would buy them. People buy Harleys mainly because of their unique sound and their vibration. Remember Harley even tried to trademark the sound of their engines. The Virago ran very smoothy because of it's 90 degree layout. Honda's first 45 degree Shadow v-twin achieved the same thing by using staggered crankpins which resulted in the same thing. A very smooth running engine. But they didn't sell. Because they didn't sound and shake like Harleys.

And considering how well Harleys sell, you have to wonder why. Probably a lot of things. The Harley name, the look, but most likely because of the way they sound and feel. Nobody WANTS a smooth quiet Harley.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:39 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Ok, so I don't build engines, I "assemble" them. I never said I had a factory or a million dollar machine shop. I have never had a problem with plasticgage, and as far as measuring bearing clearances, using mics would not likely be any more accurate, though I do have them. Plastigage can show up very minor differences in the clearances, you just have to be patient and methodical.

As for side by side connecting rods on a Harley, yes it would require offsetting the cylinders, but the Japanese have been doing that since Yamaha built the first Virago back in 1981. And by using offset crankpins, Harley COULD correct the primary imbalance of their engines, making them run very smoothly. This would also make them last a lot longer. But nobody would buy them. People buy Harleys mainly because of their unique sound and their vibration. Remember Harley even tried to trademark the sound of their engines. The Virago ran very smoothy because of it's 90 degree layout. Honda's first 45 degree Shadow v-twin achieved the same thing by using staggered crankpins which resulted in the same thing. A very smooth running engine. But they didn't sell. Because they didn't sound and shake like Harleys.

And considering how well Harleys sell, you have to wonder why. Probably a lot of things. The Harley name, the look, but most likely because of the way they sound and feel. Nobody WANTS a smooth quiet Harley.
You're right....I guess that's why they sell so few V Rods, especially in Europe.

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Old 11-24-2012, 11:41 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Ok, so I don't build engines, I "assemble" them. I never said I had a factory or a million dollar machine shop. I have never had a problem with plasticgage, and as far as measuring bearing clearances, using mics would not likely be any more accurate, though I do have them. Plastigage can show up very minor differences in the clearances, you just have to be patient and methodical.

As for side by side connecting rods on a Harley, yes it would require offsetting the cylinders, but the Japanese have been doing that since Yamaha built the first Virago back in 1981. And by using offset crankpins, Harley COULD correct the primary imbalance of their engines, making them run very smoothly. This would also make them last a lot longer. But nobody would buy them. People buy Harleys mainly because of their unique sound and their vibration. Remember Harley even tried to trademark the sound of their engines. The Virago ran very smoothy because of it's 90 degree layout. Honda's first 45 degree Shadow v-twin achieved the same thing by using staggered crankpins which resulted in the same thing. A very smooth running engine. But they didn't sell. Because they didn't sound and shake like Harleys.

And considering how well Harleys sell, you have to wonder why. Probably a lot of things. The Harley name, the look, but most likely because of the way they sound and feel. Nobody WANTS a smooth quiet Harley.
Thought you said you were done with this thread

Yes, Honda made a dual crankpin 45 degree twin. It was smooth but it's power output was a comparative joke despite the advantage of water cooling. Worse yet, it sounded like a fucking garbage truck. Honda's dual crankpin V-twins are the worst sounding engines on the planet.

You want a smooth, quiet Harley? Buy anything with the "B" motor. I sure liked mine.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:54 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crampfan View Post
The easiest way to tell if you are having an issue with the tensioner shoe, is to cut the oil filter open after an oil change. If you see bits of nylon within the filter media, replace the shoe. It takes about an hour. (unless you still have stock pipes, lol) I have seen many twinkys go 85k+ without any issue. and I have seen a few go as early as 17k. I almost have to figure its how it's ridden that determines the longevity.
This is good to know. Sounds like the pre-2007 Twin Cams can be kept running indefinitely with no cam chain tensioner failures with some pretty inexpensive additional maintenance.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:47 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
Thought you said you were done with this thread
Now he's over in the 883 thread braggin' up Harleys!
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:03 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Ok, so I don't build engines, I "assemble" them. I never said I had a factory or a million dollar machine shop. I have never had a problem with plasticgage, and as far as measuring bearing clearances, using mics would not likely be any more accurate, though I do have them. Plastigage can show up very minor differences in the clearances, you just have to be patient and methodical.

As for side by side connecting rods on a Harley, yes it would require offsetting the cylinders, but the Japanese have been doing that since Yamaha built the first Virago back in 1981. And by using offset crankpins, Harley COULD correct the primary imbalance of their engines, making them run very smoothly. This would also make them last a lot longer. But nobody would buy them. People buy Harleys mainly because of their unique sound and their vibration. Remember Harley even tried to trademark the sound of their engines. The Virago ran very smoothy because of it's 90 degree layout. Honda's first 45 degree Shadow v-twin achieved the same thing by using staggered crankpins which resulted in the same thing. A very smooth running engine. But they didn't sell. Because they didn't sound and shake like Harleys.

And considering how well Harleys sell, you have to wonder why. Probably a lot of things. The Harley name, the look, but most likely because of the way they sound and feel. Nobody WANTS a smooth quiet Harley.
I thought your were moving on. Yes Harley could do many things but they stick with what works for them and their market. Everybody in the vtwin segment tries to copy a Harley, and some of them come close to looking like a Harley but they still aren't a Harley. It's not a matter of being better, best etc., its just that there is only one Harley. Why folks continue to bash the brand makes no sense, bash the riders if you want, but not the bike. Its just a motorcycle, but one that puts a smile on my face every time I ride mine.

This thread was about cam issues, and I apologize for straying. So now back to the cams.
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