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Old 11-23-2012, 09:37 PM   #27556
tony the tiger
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Originally Posted by Rustynuts View Post
My son having a little target practice with the Springfield Armory Socom 16....

Nice - always wanted one a'them.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:28 PM   #27557
Fire Escape
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Eh? Muzzle Loaders

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Originally Posted by Otis the Sasquatch View Post
And...









But I would like to shoot it, eventually. Maybe just w/ marbles.

First problem; shined a flashlight down the bore and... no light at the nipple hole. Ruh-Roh. Then I put the loading rod down the bore, and it hit something hard near the bottom. Loaded maybe? Now what? guess I'll get or borrow a borescope and see what's going on in there.


Anyway, any thoughts y'all have would be appreciated. I have been trying to find a Gunsmith 'round here that KNOWS these guns AND isn't backed up 6 months! If I do, I'll get it gone over and maybe add a reproduction rear sight.


Thanks!
Otis

Muzzle loaders are not my strong suit - way too much work and cleaning after use, haven't owned one since I turned 21 and could own a cartridge handgun. Still, the basics haven't changed much......

First, run that ramrod or something similar back down the bore. Carefully (more or less) mark it at the muzzle when it bottoms out then remove it and compare on the outside to see where the rod ended relative to the nipple. If it is less than or about 3/8" forward of the nipple, it probably isn't loaded just stuffed with crap/rust. Anything much more than 3/8" could allow room for it to be loaded. It could be loaded with just a projectile (not too unusual for someone to forget powder) or a full load. Said full load might or might not still contain viable powder.
Under normal conditions the nipple is removable, that one might be but it isn't going to be easy. I don't have any knowledge of values or rarity about Springfields, guessing that the bore isn't a lot better than the outside, I have doubts that it has collector value (I know, you are not looking to sell but sometimes doing anything at all to an old gun ruins value, you would not want to 'destroy' it) but certainly can't confirm one way or the other.
Back to whether or not it is loaded,
If the ramrod test shows nothing to be in the bore you could try clearing the nipple hole with a small drill bit and pin vice, the actual hole may be considerably smaller than the rusted/eroded end of the nipple would indicate so start very small and be gentle enough as to NOT break off a drill bit in the hole! Don't overdo the depth, that hole only goes down to the center (well just beyond) of the horizontal hole which is filled with a screw (hardly discernible on your gun but readily apparent in 'buildit's' photos. We will come back to that screw shortly.
If the ramrod test does indicate it being 'loaded' there are a few options, a soft projectile (i.e. lead) can usually be 'pulled' by use of a worm which can be either a screw or a couple of 'twisted wires' that screw onto the end of a (probably not the one that came with the gun) ramrod and are then threaded into or around the projectile. IF the bore is not too rusty the projectile can be withdrawn although it might take several tries. If it is one of his marbles still in there it isn't going to work unless the (external type) worm somehow gets a good grip on some cloth patching material.
Lacking the ability to pull the projectile, the alternative is to push. In the old days, when a ball or bullet was loaded without powder the answer was to try and work enough powder behind it to 'shoot it out', this wasn't too hard if no one was shooting at you at the time and IF that screw we talked about earlier would come out. Trying to get powder down through the nipple would be bad enough, getting it to take that right angle turn (behind the rusted away screw) and end up behind the projectile will be more challenging.
I would be inclined to try and use air pressure instead of powder to remove whatever might still be in the gun. This is not without some measure of risk but mostly in regard to where the projectile might end up should it suddenly become 'unstuck'. The results for anyone in front of the muzzle could indeed be lethal.

It is an interesting project, I hope that you are a patient man. Good luck!

Bruce
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:34 PM   #27558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Escape View Post
...... I hope that you are a patient man. Good luck!

Bruce
Yes, I am.

And thank you for the compressed air idea. "Why didn't I think of that!"

Least likely obstruction is a marble. I know he did shoot it w/ lead ball, after the Marble Experiments but probably prior to WWII. Might just be other crap down there. I saw it for years (I had known him since the late 70's) just sitting barrel-up in one of those round gun racks, in the corner of his living room. The part of the bore I can see looks pretty good, but who knows what it's like waaaay down in the dark.

He knew I had always admired it, and he was going to sell it to me "some day". Neither of us was in a hurry. Then he had a couple of strokes.....

It was gifted to me by his daughters (got to know him because of them ), after the strokes but before he passed away, as a thank you for helping out at the farm after the first stroke when he was able to live at home but couldn't handle the chores anymore. And if it's just a Wall Hanger, so be it. But I really would like to someday be able to shoot a few rounds, then drink a few rounds, in honor of that good 'ol Irishman, WWII Vet (SeaBee, South Pacific), and friend.

I'll pop back w/ an update later, but due to my work schedule it might be awhile before I have time to give it the proper attention.

Thanks!
Paul
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:49 PM   #27559
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Originally Posted by Otis the Sasquatch View Post
Yes, I am.

And thank you for the compressed air idea. "Why didn't I think of that!"

Thanks!
Paul
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:52 PM   #27560
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Thanks! I'll give that a try.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:30 PM   #27561
siyeh
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Ruger No 1 International in .270 Win. Picked it up a little over a year ago. It took me awhile to get some proper eye relief.
Offset Ruger rings and a classic Weaver 4X with great glass did the trick. It shot excellent off the bench though the groups did string high after the barrel heated up. not enough to bother me in hunting situations.



It did the job on a Wisconsin whitetail @ 14 yards.



Since my county went from slugs only to rifle I think I will have a fully rifled Browning A-Bolt 12 ga for sale soon,,,,
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:25 PM   #27562
ZzyzyxRd
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14 yards?
How'd you get it out of the petting zoo?
Next time try coaxing it into the back of your truck before you shoot it.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:30 PM   #27563
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Originally Posted by siyeh View Post
Ruger No 1 International in .270 Win. Picked it up a little over a year ago. It took me awhile to get some proper eye relief.
Offset Ruger rings and a classic Weaver 4X with great glass did the trick. It shot excellent off the bench though the groups did string high after the barrel heated up. not enough to bother me in hunting situations.



It did the job on a Wisconsin whitetail @ 14 yards.



Since my county went from slugs only to rifle I think I will have a fully rifled Browning A-Bolt 12 ga for sale soon,,,,
Nice buck.
I still think you could have taken him with a rock and a pillowcase.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:45 PM   #27564
buildit
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Originally Posted by ZzyzyxRd View Post
Nice buck.
I still think you could have taken him with a rock and a pillowcase.
14 yards? Is that like 14 neighbors houses away? Did you have to jump any fences?
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:31 AM   #27565
gatling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siyeh View Post
Ruger No 1 International in .270 Win. Picked it up a little over a year ago. It took me awhile to get some proper eye relief.
Offset Ruger rings and a classic Weaver 4X with great glass did the trick. It shot excellent off the bench though the groups did string high after the barrel heated up. not enough to bother me in hunting situations.



It did the job on a Wisconsin whitetail @ 14 yards.



Since my county went from slugs only to rifle I think I will have a fully rifled Browning A-Bolt 12 ga for sale soon,,,,
Beautiful rifle.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:44 AM   #27566
siyeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzyzyxRd View Post
14 yards?
How'd you get it out of the petting zoo?
Next time try coaxing it into the back of your truck before you shoot it.
What can I say? It's the truth. I could have let him get closer. I was in a 15 foot tree stand he came crashing in to my woods at around 75 yards. I got ready to shoot if it had horns. He hit a logging road and followed it to me. At about 30 yards, he left the logging road and followed a deer trail directly toward my stand. I figured 14 yards was close enough. He never stopped trotting the whole time I had him in the scope. He was in full buck trot mode it is still rut here in SoWis.

Private land Oak, walnut, cherry, hickory, etc., surrounded by corn, alfalfa, soybeans, and CRP. Once the shooting starts here, my woods is a deer magnet. We just sit and wait. Then we eat well!
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:49 AM   #27567
Tmaximusv
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Originally Posted by Otis the Sasquatch View Post
Can't find a serial #, though. In this pic, you WANT to see a number. But the closer I look the less it looks like a number. Is this where it should be?


cont...
Not an old gun expert but...The mark looks a lot like a bell, and with a P,, that could easily make the production site Philadelphia? Given that Philly was a major site of federal govt. work including the mint and administration, it would make sense that there was an armory there, too.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:13 AM   #27568
Juanjo_NY
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my 45-70 got his first deer.
In and out, touching the spine.This guy didn't even heard the shot.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:57 AM   #27569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzyzyxRd View Post
14 yards?
How'd you get it out of the petting zoo?
Next time try coaxing it into the back of your truck before you shoot it.
I've shot deer that close. I sat down on a stump and they walked past me, first the doe who kept looking back in the woods and then the buck.

Problem was that although they walked right up to me (I kept still) it was down in a ravine and took two of us with ropes, half the night to get them out of there. After that I said next time I would not shoot them unless I could coax them nearer the truck.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:39 AM   #27570
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I've shot deer that close. I sat down on a stump and they walked past me, first the doe who kept looking back in the woods and then the buck.

Problem was that although they walked right up to me (I kept still) it was down in a ravine and took two of us with ropes, half the night to get them out of there. After that I said next time I would not shoot them unless I could coax them nearer the truck.
Like this,
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