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Old 11-24-2012, 05:15 PM   #136
EetsOK
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Originally Posted by cycleman2 View Post
I thought your were moving on. Yes Harley could do many things but they stick with what works for them and their market. Everybody in the vtwin segment tries to copy a Harley, and some of them come close to looking like a Harley but they still aren't a Harley. It's not a matter of being better, best etc., its just that there is only one Harley. Why folks continue to bash the brand makes no sense, bash the riders if you want, but not the bike. Its just a motorcycle, but one that puts a smile on my face every time I ride mine.

This thread was about cam issues, and I apologize for straying. So now back to the cams.
It is not bashing, it is pointing out real, acknowledged objective issues with a piece of machinery. I don't know why the HD owners are the only ones to cry "bashing" anytime somebody wants to talk about the real mechanical going ons of their bike. I've been on many different boards and it is only the HD owner who make this ridiculous statement...bashing...for fucks sake.

Like I said before, the TC was a departure from the single cam lay out for the big twins so WHY not use something that 1) they already had experience with and 2) known to be trouble free, the XL 4 cam set up? Not only that, it provides a much better push rod geometry. So, when after 110 years of making motorcycles, they continue to produce an inferior design (compared with their own products) it makes me question WTF they are doing. So they want their bikes to fail? What else is designed liek this? Makes me wonder.

The TC cam drive isn't the only design I question. Many other manufactureres do shit like this but this is a thread for the HD TC so that is what I am discussing here. Want to talk about the stupid airbox desing of 3 cylinder Triumph T300's? BMW final drives as of late? Shim under bucket valve adjusters? Then start anotehr thread.

Bashing...for fucks sake, grow up already. Really you sound like some snivelling cry baby when you claim "bashing".

Really.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:24 PM   #137
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You've made your point... a few times already... and in just about every HD thread that pops up in Road Warriors.... time for you to move on as you said you were going to...

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Old 11-24-2012, 05:30 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by EetsOK View Post
It is not bashing, it is pointing out real, acknowledged objective issues with a piece of machinery. I don't know why the HD owners are the only ones to cry "bashing" anytime somebody wants to talk about the real mechanical going ons of their bike. I've been on many different boards and it is only the HD owner who make this ridiculous statement...bashing...for fucks sake.

Like I said before, the TC was a departure from the single cam lay out for the big twins so WHY not use something that 1) they already had experience with and 2) known to be trouble free, the XL 4 cam set up? Not only that, it provides a much better push rod geometry. So, when after 110 years of making motorcycles, they continue to produce an inferior design (compared with their own products) it makes me question WTF they are doing. So they want their bikes to fail? What else is designed liek this? Makes me wonder.

The TC cam drive isn't the only design I question. Many other manufactureres do shit like this but this is a thread for the HD TC so that is what I am discussing here. Want to talk about the stupid airbox desing of 3 cylinder Triumph T300's? BMW final drives as of late? Shim under bucket valve adjusters? Then start anotehr thread.

Bashing...for fucks sake, grow up already. Really you sound like some snivelling cry baby when you claim "bashing".

Really.
For the record, you sound like a sniveling cry baby when you whine about the sniveling cry babies crying about bashing
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:23 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by bikeridermark View Post
Now he's over in the 883 thread braggin' up Harleys!
Yes, I do like Harleys. Mostly because of the vibration and the sound. Sportsters do not have twin cams and their associated problems. For me, a motorcycle with no sound and no vibration just isn't much fun to ride, especially if it isn't fast. My XT225 has a Z1 modded (drilled out) exhaust and rejetted carb so it actually sounds like a dirt bike.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
For the record, you sound like a sniveling cry baby when you whine about the sniveling cry babies crying about bashing
You're the king crybaby.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:31 PM   #141
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You're the king crybaby.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:09 AM   #142
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Nobody WANTS a smooth quiet Harley.

Really? Nobody? Not ONE person? This thread is covered in absolute awesome sauce!!
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:00 PM   #143
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Harley COULD correct the primary imbalance of their engines, making them run very smoothly. This would also make them last a lot longer.
How much longer should they last? I mean theres harley engines from 20's still running just fine, doesnt get much better than that. How many japanese bikes from that era are still running, oh right they didnt make bikes back then.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:39 PM   #144
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How much longer should they last? I mean theres harley engines from 20's still running just fine, doesnt get much better than that. How many japanese bikes from that era are still running, oh right they didnt make bikes back then.
Stuff was made to last back in the 20's regardless who made it.
HD having issues with he TC's is more a statement of our throw away society than ability to engineer and make something to last.
All these bikes today with their fancy electronics, how many will be running in 20, 30, 50 years or longer?
Not a fair comparison.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:22 PM   #145
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Most Japanese engines COULD last forever, if they were designed to be rebuilt, and IF parts were available. I would love to get into vintage Japanese bikes (unless it became super expensive) but their not being easily rebuildable and with almost NO parts being available, it's pretty difficult to keep one running. I had to fabricate some of my own parts for my former 1985 Honda Goldwing, a fairly new bike. I also had to buy a lot of used parts. The fuel pump came from a Honda Civic.

I AM NOT a Harley basher. In fact I love them, and hope to someday be able to ride something besides a Sportster. But I am not a fan of the twin cam design. Just too many things to go wrong, and no real improvement. Automatic cam chain tensioners fail on a regular basis on ALL bikes. Vulcan 750 cam chain tensioners tend to fail at around 10-12,000 miles. So you have to keep replacing them, or do what I did, and switch to aftermarket manual tensioners

As for their single crankpin 45 degree layout, it is seriously out of balance, and puts a tremendous amount of stress on all the engine parts. A Harley engine would likely last twice as long if they did it Honda's way, and used staggered crankpins to give perfect primary balance. The engines wouldn't vibrate, and they would sound like a lawnmower. But they would hold together a lot longer before needing to be rebuilt.

But I can guarantee that if Harley did it this way, they would be out of business in a very short time. Those who want smooth quiet bikes can get them from the Japanese.


As for today's "throw away" culture, I've been complaining about that since I was a teenager. It is a sad thing indeed. Most Japanese dealers won't even look up parts for a bike more than 10 years old. Electronics? I've never owned a bike with electronics, yet they all seemed to run just fine. How are electronics an improvement? Using technology just because it is there and not because it serves a purpose and makes the product better just doesn't make sense.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:36 PM   #146
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Jerry, Jerry,

Even I start to feel sorry for you, having to live in these modern throw away times.
I saw one of these on eBay just a few days ago, maybe that would get you all excited?
It definitely qualifies as 'low tech' and must appeal to you!


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Old 11-25-2012, 01:43 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Most Japanese engines COULD last forever, if they were designed to be rebuilt, and IF parts were available. I would love to get into vintage Japanese bikes (unless it became super expensive) but their not being easily rebuildable and with almost NO parts being available, it's pretty difficult to keep one running. I had to fabricate some of my own parts for my former 1985 Honda Goldwing, a fairly new bike. I also had to buy a lot of used parts. The fuel pump came from a Honda Civic.

I AM NOT a Harley basher. In fact I love them, and hope to someday be able to ride something besides a Sportster. But I am not a fan of the twin cam design. Just too many things to go wrong, and no real improvement. Automatic cam chain tensioners fail on a regular basis on ALL bikes. Vulcan 750 cam chain tensioners tend to fail at around 10-12,000 miles. So you have to keep replacing them, or do what I did, and switch to aftermarket manual tensioners

As for their single crankpin 45 degree layout, it is seriously out of balance, and puts a tremendous amount of stress on all the engine parts. A Harley engine would likely last twice as long if they did it Honda's way, and used staggered crankpins to give perfect primary balance. The engines wouldn't vibrate, and they would sound like a lawnmower. But they would hold together a lot longer before needing to be rebuilt.

But I can guarantee that if Harley did it this way, they would be out of business in a very short time. Those who want smooth quiet bikes can get them from the Japanese.


As for today's "throw away" culture, I've been complaining about that since I was a teenager. It is a sad thing indeed. Most Japanese dealers won't even look up parts for a bike more than 10 years old. Electronics? I've never owned a bike with electronics, yet they all seemed to run just fine. How are electronics an improvement? Using technology just because it is there and not because it serves a purpose and makes the product better just doesn't make sense.
What a load of crap that is Jerry.
Ever hear of cylinder relining? Machine shops? Lathes? If you can't find it, make it. The myth of japanese engines not being rebuildable is just that...a myth. Ever pick up a non-HD classic/vintage motorcycle magazine? The problem with guys like you, is that the Japanese engines are more complex and sometimes you got to make a few bits at home with a lathe etc. Just like the peopel that restore pre WW1 motorcycles. The name on the tank is no indication of whether it is rebuildable or not.

"Using technology just because it is there and not because it serves a purpose and makes the product better just doesn't make sense"

You see you can say something intellegent if you try hard enough.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:53 PM   #148
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Jerry, what do you actually RIDE? Do you even own a bike? Or do you just troll?
Harley engines, they last a LONG time.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:09 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by bikeridermark View Post
Jerry, what do you actually RIDE? Do you even own a bike? Or do you just troll?
Harley engines, they last a LONG time.
But no, they use a 1970's timing chain and are, like, chemically imbalanced or something.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:14 PM   #150
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Jerry, what do you actually RIDE? Do you even own a bike? Or do you just troll?
Harley engines, they last a LONG time.

Funny you say that. The guys at the local mc parts store made a comment about me always riding my Sportster to pick up parts for my Jap bikes. One guy asked why I never get anything for the Sportster and I simply said "It never seems to need anything." It's honestly been one of the most reliable bikes I have owned.
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